sue4u2
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
You believe in CoExist but think it's weak ??
However we now go back to so many who have question's and still.. there's only one way, according to you "your belief".
Bono as an idol, CoeXisT and Bono's faith
- Thread starter coemgen
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
You believe in CoExist but think it's weak ??
However we now go back to so many who have question's and still.. there's only one way, according to you "your belief".
deep
Blue Crack Addict
sulawesigirl4 said:
I salute you.
BonosSaint
Rock n' Roll Doggie
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2004
- Messages
- 3,566
sue4u2 said:
I don't think he is commenting on the goal of CoExistence, but the word. He thinks a more proactive term would be better.
The goal is not weak, but the word is. CoExist suggesting just sitting next to each other and ignoring each other because you have nothing left to say to each other. Coemgen is a journalist. They live by words. (So do English majors.
)
BonosSaint
Rock n' Roll Doggie
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2004
- Messages
- 3,566
Personal belief (although not an original one): that God incarnated as much for himself as for humanity. He was estranged from his creation. He could not feel or understand hunger, thirst, personal betrayel, exhaustion, joy, friendship, touch. Incarnated, he could feel all those things, including possibly desire (he was a little flirty with the woman at the well).
His incarnation was as much his need as ours.
It's kind of like your relationship with your father (or some fathers). When you are young, you adore and fear and put them on an unreasonable pedestal. When you realize they are vulnerable and flawed, the actual relationship may have a chance to begin.
One theory is that God incarnated as much to atone for his sins against humanity as much as to offer forgiveness for humanity's sins against him. I sense some psychological truth in that.
His incarnation was as much his need as ours.
It's kind of like your relationship with your father (or some fathers). When you are young, you adore and fear and put them on an unreasonable pedestal. When you realize they are vulnerable and flawed, the actual relationship may have a chance to begin.
One theory is that God incarnated as much to atone for his sins against humanity as much as to offer forgiveness for humanity's sins against him. I sense some psychological truth in that.
indra
ONE love, blood, life
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
- Messages
- 12,689
Awww... I hate it when threads get moved to this forum. 
I feel most unwelcome here, so ta ta.
I feel most unwelcome here, so ta ta.
BonosSaint
Rock n' Roll Doggie
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2004
- Messages
- 3,566
Uh, oh.
"blessings not just for the ones who kneel"
"we are all equal in the eyes of God"
If Bono is not a universalist, he has universalist tendencies.
God loves unconditionally, even non-Christians and Christian bigots. No exceptions. Period.
Check out Carlton Pearson and the "gospel of inclusion," including the excellent hour on him on This American Life from last week (http://thislife.org ).
This blurb is from 2002, but Pearson is still at it, and his old peops from the evangelical movement are still condemning him.
big props and pieces of peace to all of you this holyday seezun.....
Gospel of Inclusion' Draws Attention, Stirs Controversy
Tulsa Bishop Says Conversion Through Christ Unnecessary
By Fred Jackson and Jody Brown
October 2, 2002
(AgapePress) - A Pentecostal bishop in Oklahoma continues to stir controversy with his teaching that Jesus Christ has saved everyone, regardless whether they accept Christ as their Savior.
Carlton Pearson has been pastor of the Higher Dimensions Family Church in Tulsa for more than 20 years. He is presiding bishop of the Azusa Interdenominational Fellowship of Christian Churches and Ministries, Inc., which includes over 500 churches and ministries. And he has authored a variety of books and was even nominated for a Dove Award at one time.
But the embattled, high-energy preacher has raised eyebrows among his fellow evangelicals recently for preaching what he calls the "gospel of inclusion." Associated Press says other prominent ministers have denounced him for teaching that Jesus has saved everyone -- both believers and unbelievers. He teaches that sincere people who do not directly acknowledge Christ -- such as Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Unitarians -- will go to heaven. Consequently, according to Pearson, conversion is unnecessary. [See Earlier Article]
"The finished work of Christ at Calvary redeemed all of humanity, not just Christians, back to God," Pearson says. "The whole world is already saved -- they just don't know it."
Pearson goes as far as to say that a God who eternally condemns non-Christians would be worse than Hitler. "Hitler killed six million [people], mostly Jews. He is the most despised man in the twentieth century. Is God worse than Hitler, who's going to burn eternally, endlessly, billions of people?"
Many Christians who consider Pearson's teaching heresy will likely point to his views on the Bible as the source of his error. "I'm saying, don't put your trust in the Bible -- put your trust in God. [The Bible] shouldn't be an idol. This is paper and ink."
Pearson is opening a three-day conference at his church today entitled "Contending for the Faith Once Delivered Summit," at which the "gospel of inclusion" is to be the main focus. Speakers at the three-day conference include Pearson himself as well as several others who are proponents of universalism.
"we are all equal in the eyes of God"
If Bono is not a universalist, he has universalist tendencies.
God loves unconditionally, even non-Christians and Christian bigots. No exceptions. Period.
Check out Carlton Pearson and the "gospel of inclusion," including the excellent hour on him on This American Life from last week (http://thislife.org ).
This blurb is from 2002, but Pearson is still at it, and his old peops from the evangelical movement are still condemning him.
big props and pieces of peace to all of you this holyday seezun.....
Gospel of Inclusion' Draws Attention, Stirs Controversy
Tulsa Bishop Says Conversion Through Christ Unnecessary
By Fred Jackson and Jody Brown
October 2, 2002
(AgapePress) - A Pentecostal bishop in Oklahoma continues to stir controversy with his teaching that Jesus Christ has saved everyone, regardless whether they accept Christ as their Savior.
Carlton Pearson has been pastor of the Higher Dimensions Family Church in Tulsa for more than 20 years. He is presiding bishop of the Azusa Interdenominational Fellowship of Christian Churches and Ministries, Inc., which includes over 500 churches and ministries. And he has authored a variety of books and was even nominated for a Dove Award at one time.
But the embattled, high-energy preacher has raised eyebrows among his fellow evangelicals recently for preaching what he calls the "gospel of inclusion." Associated Press says other prominent ministers have denounced him for teaching that Jesus has saved everyone -- both believers and unbelievers. He teaches that sincere people who do not directly acknowledge Christ -- such as Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Unitarians -- will go to heaven. Consequently, according to Pearson, conversion is unnecessary. [See Earlier Article]
"The finished work of Christ at Calvary redeemed all of humanity, not just Christians, back to God," Pearson says. "The whole world is already saved -- they just don't know it."
Pearson goes as far as to say that a God who eternally condemns non-Christians would be worse than Hitler. "Hitler killed six million [people], mostly Jews. He is the most despised man in the twentieth century. Is God worse than Hitler, who's going to burn eternally, endlessly, billions of people?"
Many Christians who consider Pearson's teaching heresy will likely point to his views on the Bible as the source of his error. "I'm saying, don't put your trust in the Bible -- put your trust in God. [The Bible] shouldn't be an idol. This is paper and ink."
Pearson is opening a three-day conference at his church today entitled "Contending for the Faith Once Delivered Summit," at which the "gospel of inclusion" is to be the main focus. Speakers at the three-day conference include Pearson himself as well as several others who are proponents of universalism.
Hello ladies and gentlemen,
I must confess that I did not follow all the discussion, stopping at page 4 or 5... so, I apologize right now for any eventual misundertand
In any case, I believe that there is a central point in all of this discussion and, in fact, all of the same ones this subject is involved: what's the truth religion, if it exists? There's only one or many paths to God?
Mankind always disagreed about this subject, and always will. But I don't believe in Universalism, or in "all religions are true", or even in Bono's polemic phrase, except that they are true sons of Abraham ("genetically" speaking at least, not necessary "spiritually" speaking - it's another discussion), and yes, let's coexist in peace for God's sake! I am a real U2 fan (believe me!), because of a lot of things, including the christian moral or biblical excerpts in its lyrics. But sometimes I disagree with them.
"IF" Bono believes in Universalism (I'm not saying he does), he is truelly against what Bible teach about the way that leads to God, created by Him (because He is the Lord and wanted it this way). The Bible says it's unique, and we comprehend this not only seeing one isolated verse, but many that complement and explain each other; in fact, this is a rule to correct interpret the Bible. So, it's a biblical lesson, I believe out of discussion, and I'm not intended to put here all the Westminster's Confession of Faith that shows these doctrines in a more "readable" way (it facilitates a lot, read it!).
I think the real question behind all the discussion here is whether the Bible, a very very very old collection of books written by people many think are not the real authors, is right or not... Is the Bible the truly inerrant Word of God? Some says "yes", others "no", anothers "it depends the way you read it..."
Citing the Confession (the more "readable" way), chapter 1 article 4, symbol of what I believe: "The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God" (2PE 1:19, 21; 2TI 3:16; 1JO 5:9; 1 TH 2:13).
So, concluding:
1. The action of the Holy Spirit, in a personal relationship, testifies that the Bible is the Word of God
2. I think Bono's wrong because of that, but I'm still a U2 fan and maybe always will
3. Mankind always will have their ideas of God, their "paths" or "trues". But in the end it'll all be judged against the real one
4. I haven't accepted Christ as my Savior at all; on the contrary, He accepted my as a saved man by His Grace
I indeed respect you people, and your opinion. I hope I helped
God bless.
I must confess that I did not follow all the discussion, stopping at page 4 or 5... so, I apologize right now for any eventual misundertand
In any case, I believe that there is a central point in all of this discussion and, in fact, all of the same ones this subject is involved: what's the truth religion, if it exists? There's only one or many paths to God?
Mankind always disagreed about this subject, and always will. But I don't believe in Universalism, or in "all religions are true", or even in Bono's polemic phrase, except that they are true sons of Abraham ("genetically" speaking at least
, not necessary "spiritually" speaking - it's another discussion), and yes, let's coexist in peace for God's sake! I am a real U2 fan (believe me!), because of a lot of things, including the christian moral or biblical excerpts in its lyrics. But sometimes I disagree with them."IF" Bono believes in Universalism (I'm not saying he does), he is truelly against what Bible teach about the way that leads to God, created by Him (because He is the Lord and wanted it this way). The Bible says it's unique, and we comprehend this not only seeing one isolated verse, but many that complement and explain each other; in fact, this is a rule to correct interpret the Bible. So, it's a biblical lesson, I believe out of discussion, and I'm not intended to put here all the Westminster's Confession of Faith that shows these doctrines in a more "readable" way (it facilitates a lot, read it!).
I think the real question behind all the discussion here is whether the Bible, a very very very old collection of books written by people many think are not the real authors, is right or not... Is the Bible the truly inerrant Word of God? Some says "yes", others "no", anothers "it depends the way you read it..."
Citing the Confession (the more "readable" way), chapter 1 article 4, symbol of what I believe: "The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God" (2PE 1:19, 21; 2TI 3:16; 1JO 5:9; 1 TH 2:13).
So, concluding:
1. The action of the Holy Spirit, in a personal relationship, testifies that the Bible is the Word of God
2. I think Bono's wrong because of that, but I'm still a U2 fan and maybe always will
3. Mankind always will have their ideas of God, their "paths" or "trues". But in the end it'll all be judged against the real one
4. I haven't accepted Christ as my Savior at all; on the contrary, He accepted my as a saved man by His Grace
I indeed respect you people, and your opinion. I hope I helped
God bless.
BrownEyedBoy
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Shaizari
Acrobat
The vicarious crucifixion of Christ is a gift to humanity to accept salvation. Notice it is a gift. A gift can be rejected. The crucifixion and its benefits were for all people on earth if they accepted it as a gift, but not everyone accepts the gift.
Jesus claimed to tbe "only" way and the truth, can anyone cite anything Jesus did that would discredit this claim, moreover, was his life irreproachable for anyone to put their trust in his exclusivistic ways?
I think people make Christianity more narrow-minded than Christians do. Bible says God is fair, this is how it works.
If you hear the gospel and reject the message, then you can be said to have had the chance to accept salvation. One will be judged under that circumstance.
However, a person who has never heard the gospel is not an automatic certainty to be damned as most people assume. Their advocation is that they never had the chance to listen to the gospel in which case they will be judged by the conduct of their lives in accordance with the inner ability of all humans to discern right and wrong.
Since God is fair and just, he takes all things into consideration. He's firm on certain principles, but that is not the same as black and white. If you accept that Jesus is God incarnated in flesh then it makes sense that he understand the complexities of humanity and the circumstances they face in hearing or not hearing the gospel.
I strongly disagree with Pearson in that his viewpoint decreases the idea of freedom. People must make the choice to accept or reject the gift of salvation. THE "unconditional" argument of Pearson says that people have no choice but are saved anyway. Is that justice? Is that fair? We're all talking about how fairness is good, but it seems we're silent when we have an unfair advantage in our favour.
Is there any other spiritual belief in the world that says that God incarnated into a human to serve his own creation? Is there any other spiritual belief which says that their God would die for them as a human and as a criminal? Is there any other spiritual belief
which says that God desires a relationship of communication not meaningless sacrifice, rituals and ossified traditions. There is a reason why Christ claims to be the only path. THis is it.
It sounds narrow for most people, so be it.
Christ may be called narrow, but does that negate him as a good person? DOes that somehow reflect badly on him?
Jesus claimed to tbe "only" way and the truth, can anyone cite anything Jesus did that would discredit this claim, moreover, was his life irreproachable for anyone to put their trust in his exclusivistic ways?
I think people make Christianity more narrow-minded than Christians do. Bible says God is fair, this is how it works.
If you hear the gospel and reject the message, then you can be said to have had the chance to accept salvation. One will be judged under that circumstance.
However, a person who has never heard the gospel is not an automatic certainty to be damned as most people assume. Their advocation is that they never had the chance to listen to the gospel in which case they will be judged by the conduct of their lives in accordance with the inner ability of all humans to discern right and wrong.
Since God is fair and just, he takes all things into consideration. He's firm on certain principles, but that is not the same as black and white. If you accept that Jesus is God incarnated in flesh then it makes sense that he understand the complexities of humanity and the circumstances they face in hearing or not hearing the gospel.
I strongly disagree with Pearson in that his viewpoint decreases the idea of freedom. People must make the choice to accept or reject the gift of salvation. THE "unconditional" argument of Pearson says that people have no choice but are saved anyway. Is that justice? Is that fair? We're all talking about how fairness is good, but it seems we're silent when we have an unfair advantage in our favour.
Is there any other spiritual belief in the world that says that God incarnated into a human to serve his own creation? Is there any other spiritual belief which says that their God would die for them as a human and as a criminal? Is there any other spiritual belief
which says that God desires a relationship of communication not meaningless sacrifice, rituals and ossified traditions. There is a reason why Christ claims to be the only path. THis is it.
It sounds narrow for most people, so be it.
Christ may be called narrow, but does that negate him as a good person? DOes that somehow reflect badly on him?
Since all you guys are talking about your faiths, I thought I'd talk about mine.
I'm Muslim, was raised that way, and having grown up, I cannot see any logical reason to believe another faith. Islam is a much better religion than it is now, abused by some bonafide bastards. Someone said something about individual journey, which I totally agree with. The meaning of the word Islam is 'way of life'. So my Islam is different from other Muslims' and people of other faiths, because we have different ways of live and different perspectives. That is why it is impossible to arrive at a consensus in a religious discussion, even between people of the same faiths.
and in the Quran, Christ is acknowledged as a prophet, and we love and respect him. We are taught that he will come bact to save the world. We are also encouraged to delve into other religions, and that religion is not a compunction.
I remember when I was young some people told me that Christians and Hindus and all else except muslims would not be allowed into heaven. I remember feeling really sad then, because I knew so many good people of other religions. Now I know that its not true, that god cannot be so unjust. There are many roads to walk, so forget the roads, the destinations important.
If there is only one way, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism and what not, stop the world, cause I want out.
I'm Muslim, was raised that way, and having grown up, I cannot see any logical reason to believe another faith. Islam is a much better religion than it is now, abused by some bonafide bastards. Someone said something about individual journey, which I totally agree with. The meaning of the word Islam is 'way of life'. So my Islam is different from other Muslims' and people of other faiths, because we have different ways of live and different perspectives. That is why it is impossible to arrive at a consensus in a religious discussion, even between people of the same faiths.
and in the Quran, Christ is acknowledged as a prophet, and we love and respect him. We are taught that he will come bact to save the world. We are also encouraged to delve into other religions, and that religion is not a compunction.
I remember when I was young some people told me that Christians and Hindus and all else except muslims would not be allowed into heaven. I remember feeling really sad then, because I knew so many good people of other religions. Now I know that its not true, that god cannot be so unjust. There are many roads to walk, so forget the roads, the destinations important.
If there is only one way, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism and what not, stop the world, cause I want out.
JanuaryStar
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
I've also just dropped in like some of you...
So I just want to share my view on all of this just here...
I wanted to say that I believe that everyone can have his or her way of believing and showing their faith or other beliefs... And we should respect this. It's the only way to try and reach world peace... Trust me..
So I just want to share my view on all of this just here...
I wanted to say that I believe that everyone can have his or her way of believing and showing their faith or other beliefs... And we should respect this. It's the only way to try and reach world peace... Trust me..
Similar threads
- Sticky
