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Old 09-27-2007, 10:13 AM   #91
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Originally posted by Sicy
I'm actually annoyed at this point that you're putting up with all this.
Oh I agree.

Personally it doesn't seem like getting married was a real stellar idea to begin with. Seems like both of you guys still had/have a lot to learn about yourselves before making such a commitment, especially one that seems really big on each others' expectations. But, hindsight is 20/20 and what's done is done. If she isn't willing to take care of herself, how can she participate in a committed relationship? Sounds like you've given her an awful lot of chances and opportunities.
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:19 AM   #92
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There's been 4 months of opportunities for her.

I don't know what to do. Of course I'll take what opinions I've read, and from my friends I have in person.

Do I think we made a mistake? Don't know but it's looking that way. I don't know if anyone has been in these shoes, but I don't think this is quite as easy as just breaking up a g/f b/f.

I would really like to discuss this with our counselor, at least have some sort of 3rd party around. If it's just us two, then emotions get out of hand and it turns more into a fight then anything productive.

I guses I'll see how she is doing tonight. Part of me wonders if splitting up would actually help her depression. It would force her to get a job (or keep one) and it would also force her to fend for herself, instead of relying on a roommate or husband. This way she's providing for herself, and maybe it proves that she is capable of doing something with her life. That she isn't a worthless piece of crap.

It could also be worse for her too. Last thing I would want to see happen is that she goes into a deep, deep funk and end up hurting herself.
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:50 AM   #93
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Why dont you try a trial separation then? One of you moves out and see how life is without each other. You never know, it may make you both realize things and you know that old saying 'dont realize what you have until its gone' just might work it out.
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:30 PM   #94
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^ I agree. You're so deep in it right now, you have no real perspective. I haven't been married, but I was engaged and we had problems for a while. We decided to take a break and see where we might go from there. We gave it the best shot we could, and really, if there were any hope for our relationship, it would've been then. It didn't work out, but it was all for the best. I think sometimes the best thing to do is to take a deep breath, step back and look at it from a fresh new angle. Good luck
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:31 PM   #95
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I'll tell you this for sure. Only YOU will know when it's time for a divorce and time to walk away and give up. Not any one of us can tell you when to do that and we sure as hell shouldn't influence you, but support you and point out the choices you have.

It's also not right for any of us to place judgement on your wife as none of us know her. So for that I do apologize because I am sure I did do that in my past comments somewhere along the line.

The fact is your wife has a problem. Taking herself off the medication is not a good thing. Being down about it and insisting it's not going to work is just all part of her depression.

I've been through this with my husband. It took me a very long time and I still have to remind myself on a daily basis--I can't save him. It came down to him having to make some decisions that were going to effect his dreams and his life, and it came down to what was he willing to do to save our marriage with me.
I know first hand you can't save it on your own, however my comments in the past about fight like hell for it, if that's what you want (and I wish I could underline and bold that last part), were strictly meant as an option.

I was always very careful not to throw around an empty threat of divorce. Granted I would ask him, is this what you want? Do you want a divorce? I even went as far as asking him to let me go, give me a divorce if I am not what he wants and this marriage is not what he wants. See....the comment, even though you explained it was a joke, about the porn hit right at home with me. It wasnt only depression and medication and shit like that I've been having to deal with these first/past 3 years of my marriage, it's been the porn and the websites and the straying/cheating/potential actual physical cheating, that I've had to deal with. So I do apologize for jumping down your throat about your comment. But there did come a time this past Spring that I finally researched how to go about getting or filling for a divorce and I admitted it to him infront of a counselor. Not until then did he realize how serious I was and how dangerously close our marriage was to being destroyed. Granted it took me a very long time to say those words and to look in to something that final, but it's also taken me a long time to step back from that door. Our counselor asked me how close I was to being out the door and if I already was. I told him and my husband my hands on the knob and the doors opened. It was hard to say that. I'm sure it was hard for him to hear, but it was a hard thing to say, and it's taken a lot out of me to close that door and step back and yeah...things are going alot better now, but I'm sorry to say my hands still on that knob as a safety measure.

I know what I have to do and I know that's to learn to trust and keep working on this and let go finally and step back even further in to our marriage.

It's hard. It's really really really hard, I know that first hand. I don't think that there's one person in this thread that doesnt know that to some extent. And it sucks BIG time. Just remember: fight for whatever you want most, you can't save someone that doesn't want to be saved, you can't make a marriage work alone, and sometimes you have to just turn things over to God or whoever/whatever you seek as a higher being or power.

Again I know how frustrating and tiring and stressful this all can be....so with that in mind I hope I don't offend you or put you off in anyway by saying that I will be praying for you and your wife.
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:52 PM   #96
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I guses I'll see how she is doing tonight.
This is no way for you to live, seeing how your wife is every night.

Try some individual couseling on your own. Then you might find out why you select these women.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:44 PM   #97
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Originally posted by BEAL


Of course she's a stay at home mom who's living off of her husband, and despite stories of them struggling for $, they tend to go shopping quite a bit.

You can probably assume this friend isn't too high on my list of favorite wife friends.
It's called "Grocery Shopping" and family care-givers usually need to do this once a week!

But you were just complaining about her NOT seeing her friends and you are bagging out the (1) friend she has at the moment......I'm confused?!?!

You mentioned earlier "Do I have to beg?"

YESSSSS!!!!!.......... Tell her you love her, tell her i don't want to lose this.....despite what you think i am thinking, I am telling you, re-assuring you that I love you, I am happy with you, and if we were apart i will MISS you and all those things that i do won't feel right because you are not there when i get back home. I don't want to end this.

STOP....right now with the "This is what you should be doing with yourself" thing with your life....STOP, treating her like a child and STOP telling her you are not doing the right thing, STOP with the feel-sorry-formyself-it's -all-up-to-me-crap either, she clearly at this stage does not want to walk out or she would have been gone by now...........you cannot honestly expect that she can come with this "5 things to do list" while you just almost jumped at the chance to end the marriage when she said "lets seperate" and come back on this forum and skite how the break-up won't affect you one little bit and say that the furniture is all hers and we don't have to much to worry about spillting things up.......you had this all figured out before, and you want people to feel for you, and tell you what you are doing is right, know one knows what's right only you do, not even the counsellor is going to tell you your right, she's not......if you will be happier apart, no-one can change this.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:03 PM   #98
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Originally posted by fly so high!
YESSSSS!!!!!.......... Tell her you love her, tell her i don't want to lose this.....despite what you think i am thinking, I am telling you, re-assuring you that I love you, I am happy with you, and if we were apart i will MISS you and all those things that i do won't feel right because you are not there when i get back home. I don't want to end this.

STOP....right now with the "This is what you should be doing with yourself" thing with your life....STOP, treating her like a child and STOP telling her you are not doing the right thing, STOP with the feel-sorry-formyself-it's -all-up-to-me-crap either, she clearly at this stage does not want to walk out or she would have been gone by now...........you cannot honestly expect that she can come with this "5 things to do list" while you just almost jumped at the chance to end the marriage when she said "lets seperate" and come back on this forum and skite how the break-up won't affect you one little bit and say that the furniture is all hers and we don't have to much to worry about spillting things up.......you had this all figured out before, and you want people to feel for you, and tell you what you are doing is right, know one knows what's right only you do, not even the counsellor is going to tell you your right, she's not......if you will be happier apart, no-one can change this.
Have you even read any of his posts?!?!
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:29 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Have you even read any of his posts?!?!
My temper is rising.......i'm over and out!
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Old 09-28-2007, 04:35 AM   #100
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The following is culled from my experience. I'm not saying it's fact for everyone, but it was for me.

I've never been married (and when you finish reading this you'll probably understand why I wouldn't inflict myself on anyone -- especially anyone I cared about ), but I have been -- and still am --depressed. I believe my depression is chronic and it will be something I have to deal with for the rest of my life. In reading your descriptions of your wife's behaviour, I see a lot of things I have done (and still am sometimes prone to) when seriously depressed. It's not a pretty picture and one that's quite embarrassing to look back on when I'm not in such a deep funk because quite frankly when I'm really depressed I'm a major bitch.

When I'm deeply depressed I'm just about everything I despise -- whiny, manipulative, churlish, completely self-centered and selfish, humourless, and almost totally without empathy. It's all about me and my pain. Nothing and no one else matters. It's all me me me me me all the time. I'm so miserable. No one loves me. I can't do anything right. I'm useless. Wah wah wah. And everyone has to know it because all the moping around, crying, deep sad sad sighs, and general disinterest in everything.

And of course no one else gets to enjoy anything because the depressed chick makes sure to pull the "oh you go ahead -- I'll just stay here by myself. I'd just spoil your fun" all the while making that super sad, pathetic, whipped dog look which never fails to induce a guilt trip in the other party. If the other person goes out, I get to cry because he/she didn't try hard enough to jolly me into going (even though if I do go I will indeed spoil it for everyone else with my whining and sighing) or doesn't love me enough to stay home with me while I either mope around ignoring him/her, or throw a crying fit because "Now you hate me because I spoiled your night!" wah wah wah me me me. But I really don't care that I spoiled your fun -- why should you get to have fun when I'm miserable? You should be miserable too, and I'm going to make damned sure that you are. And when I feel that way I don't give a flying fuck what anyone else feels.


Can your wife get through this particular funk? Of course, but only if she wants to and is willing to find treatment or treatments that work. And what worked last time might not work so well this time, so she will have to try something else. I don't mean drop the anti-depressants -- especially if they have worked in the past -- but if they don't seem to be doing as much as they should maybe she needs different ones (or different a dosage). This isn't unusual in the treatment of other illnesses -- my mum had chronic heart problems and used many different heart drugs over the decades she required daily medication. When one drug stopped working so well, her doctor switched her to a different one. Why people think if one anti-depressant doesn't work none will is beyond me.

And your support and encouragement can help her, but it should in no way come at the expense of your own mental or physical health. Don't let her destroy you. She has to be the one to decide she wants to get better and then really work on it. You can't make her get better. You can encourage and support her, but when it comes down to it, it's her decision.
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:02 AM   #101
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Best post eva.

Apart from the whole depression issue, which is a humungous part of the relationship, Ive worked a couple of things out the hard way. Be in a relationship with someone who:

* is on the same biorhythm thingie as you. If one of you wants to stay up all night watching television and sleep during the day, and the other likes to be awake daytimes and sleep at night, its going to be friggin hard work. My future boyfriend (lol) will be a morning person or he can get the fuck out of my life.

* has the same level of socialability (word?). If one of you is a stay at home bunny and the other likes to go out a few nights a week, or party every night of the week, this is going to be hard work. Im not saying any of them are good or bad, just pick someone with the same level of umpfh as you.

Then theres all the other attraction, affinity, noice manners, intelligent, dark sense of humour, fab shoulders, empathy, interest in the world view, likes bad disco and daggy 80's bands, prefably aged in their 40's, etc etc criteria.

PS If anyone knows of such a person please post him to me. Thanks.

/sidetrack about me, me, me.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:39 AM   #102
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Fly So High:

What gives you the impression that I'm treating her like a child? Part of the reason I'm posting in here is so I can say the thoughts in my head out loud, as opposed to her.

There are days I just want to scream when I find out she just sat on the couch the whole day. I don't, I'm not going to make her feel worse. Of course I will make comments from time to time about how I wish she'd get out more. If anything, I feel that I get treated like a child. I have to ask for permission for almost everything I do. And there are times where I get chided like a child. Example being I took a "sick day" from work a few weeks ago. Call it a mental health day. She then tells me that I can't do anything later that night, as that's punishment for skipping work. She was serious.

Anyway, I tell my wife I love her every day. I even call her at least once during the day while I'm at work to see how she's doing. Maybe try to spark something to get her out of the house.

She was just offered another job this morning. It would pay more than her current accepted offer, but she's a little scared to take it. I guess there are more responsibilities, but more of a flex schedule. So she's not sure about taking it.

Of course as soon as that was over, I get asked the million dollar question "What are we going to do with our lives?".

She feels that I'm avoiding it in order to not make a decision. That I'm placing it on her so she's the bad gal. So I can say, "She wants the divorce, not me!!!".

This is not true. I honestly don't know what I want to do. But it seems as though we're going down the path of divorce. I told her that I feel we're both miserable. I am, and I know she is. She feels others have come back from worse, and that I just want to quit when it's tough.

To me, she's doing the same exact thing as she's accusing me of doing. Now I'm getting the whole, "I'll have to work two jobs because I can't survive on this income". And that I'll have more money after the divorce than when we were married.

I told her that families live on less than what she is going to make, and they get by. She's never lived alone before, and I doubt if she will after we're done. She'll just go back to her old roommate, or find a new one.

Then she gets upset again because I'm using her depression as an excuse. So she says "Fine, it's all my fault".

I hate this. Anytime something goes wrong, she will take the blame just to use as a guilt trip.

I think she's going to go visit one of her friends for the weekend. Probably a good thing.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:26 AM   #103
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I think we're done.

She's going to visit her friend, and then she told me she's going to visit her Dad and then tonight her mom to tell her we're through.

She said I've had a couple of weeks to at least tell her I want to work on things, but instead I seem wishy washy. I don't dispute her point, but at the same time she can't tell me how to feel. I do want to work on things, I'm not a quitter. At the same time I feel as though my life sucks and it's not getting better. I also have doubts it will get better. If we separate and I regret it, then that's something I'll have to live with.

So I guess now it's on to getting a lawyer. Not sure if she's going to try and get alimony. She did tell me she feels that she can't afford anything on her salary (fyi, 34k in des moines). She does put , or i should say I put, a good deal of money into a IRA which could be adjusted.

I just don't know how any of this works. Before marriage she was working, she had her car, her student loans. Since marriage I've paid for all of those things. I wouldn't see how I would need to continue to do so.

She has said she wouldn't go after any of that, but I wonder what her family and friends will say. Especially if she plays the "I'm so poor card".

This all sucks. I guess it's not surprising if you follow the tone of my posts the past few weeks.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:39 AM   #104
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I'm sorry Beal. If you live in a community property state, anything either of you had before you married remains yours. Anything acquired after the marriage needs to be split. Although I've never done this either.



Quote:
Originally posted by BEAL
She did tell me she feels that she can't afford anything on her salary (fyi, 34k in des moines). She does put , or i should say I put, a good deal of money into a IRA which could be adjusted.

I just don't know how any of this works. Before marriage she was working, she had her car, her student loans. Since marriage I've paid for all of those things.
The split may be the kick in the butt she needs to do something. She'll have to fend for herself or find another host.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:09 AM   #105
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***Property Distribution: Since Iowa is an "equitable distribution" state, the marital property shall be divided in an equitable fashion. Equitable does not mean equal, but rather what is fair. The court will encourage the parties to reach a settlement on property and debt issues otherwise the court will declare the property award.

The court shall divide all property, except inherited property or gifts received by one party, equitably between the parties after considering all of the following: a. The length of the marriage.
b. The property brought to the marriage by each party.
c. The contribution of each party to the marriage, giving appropriate economic value to each party's contribution in homemaking and child care services.
d. The age and physical and emotional health of the parties.
e. The contribution by one party to the education, training or increased earning power of the other.
f. The earning capacity of each party
g. The desirability of awarding the family home or the right to live in the family home for a reasonable period to the party having custody of the children, or if the parties have joint legal custody, to the party having physical care of the children.
h. The amount and duration of an order granting support payments to either party and whether the property division should be in lieu of such payments.
i. Other economic circumstances of each party, including pension benefits, vested or unvested, and future interests.
j. The tax consequences to each party.
k. Any written agreement made by the parties concerning property distribution.
l. The provisions of an antenuptial agreement.
m. Other factors the court may determine to be relevant in an individual case. (Iowa Code - Sections 598.21)****

So really, we haven't purchased anything together. Her state of depression probably won't be considered a factor, as she's suffered from it prior to our marriage, and she proved then she could hold down a full time job.

One of my friends who has gone through a divorce feels I shouldn't have to worry about my finances. I just hate the fact that I'm even looking at this stuff.

Also, from the other post: I did not come in here looking to prove my feelings where correct. I originally posted in here because I was frustrated and wanted to know if other people had similar issues when they got married. Sounds like some people have shared a few experiences, but for the most part, I'm having to deal with this on my own and in counseling.

No way do I take what anyone says in here as the way to live by. If someone says "Hey try this out" I may. If someone says, "Dump the girl" you're crazy to think I'm going to make a decision based on that.
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