The War on Terror is a hoax

[financeguy]

The War on Terror is a Hoax:?????????? Information Clearing House - ICH

 

[BVS]

Paul Craig Roberts, saying what so many others have been saying for 7 years...

 

[ShipOfFools]

I've been saying it all along.

 

[financeguy]

Paul Craig Roberts, saying what so many others have been saying for 7 years...

Paul Craig Roberts was one of the first to say it.

 

[Bluer White]

So the meat of the article is there isn't a threat of terrorism in America because neocons aren't blowing up....

....and support for the Hamas 'government'?

 

[yolland]

This almost seems to belong in diamond's thread, in that the piece reads as if it could've been written as a rebuttal to Judea Pearl's op-ed. While I share Roberts' distrust of the "war on terror" as a handy enabling device for neoconservative (neo-imperialist?) foreign policy agendas, this article--like Pearl's--seems to be guilty of convenient oversights in service of its own argument at several points.

The Taliban is not a terrorist organization, but a movement attempting to unify Afghanistan under Muslim law.

This seems intended to reframe the Taliban as an 'Afghan national liberation movement,' which it isn't; a more accurate description might be that it's a Pashtun nationalist-expansionist movement with pan-Islamist influences and connections. Recall that the Taliban purged Uzbek, Tajik, Hazara and other ethnic-minority officials and replaced them with Pashtun during their "unification" of Afghanistan, and also that they engaged in large-scale unprovoked massacres of non-Pashtun civilians (especially Hazara) on multiple occasions. Furthermore, they've always been active in both the Afghan and Pakistani zones of 'Pashtunistan'--though with relatively little trouble for Islamabad, until it sharply curtailed its support for them following the 9/11 attacks--and have always had significant operational connections to Kashmiri Islamist militants, as well as much looser connections with Chechen Islamists...and with al-Qaeda, whom Roberts notably avoids identifying as a pan-Islamist group, even though that's exactly what they are. I suspect because he'd rather not acknowledge that pan-Islamist militancy really does exist; it makes these groups sound much more 'reasonable' to reframe them as national liberation fighters acting only in defense of their own nation--exactly the same sort of obfuscation the "war on terror" label threatens to facilitate.

Hezbollah represents the Shi’ites of southern Lebanon, another area in the Middle East that Israel seeks for its territorial expansion.

A shaky characterization at best. Israel did maintain a small occupying force in southern Lebanon following the 1982 war through to 2000 (in violation of UN resolutions), but they never established settlements in the area nor officially annexed it. Unless he specifically means Shebaa Farms--but Lebanon's claim to that (as opposed to Syria's) isn't recognized outside the Arab world, and in any case, equating an 8-sq.-mi. strip with "southern Lebanon" would be quite a stretch. Frankly, you could make a better case that Syria seeks all of Lebanon for "territorial expansion," not that that's ever likely to happen either. But it's unsurprising that Roberts, being a "Jews control the media" proponent and a 9/11 skeptic, would treat a speculative conspiracy argument as if it were established fact here as well.

 

[OrARoundabout]

The War on Terror is a Hoax:���������� Information Clearing House - ICH

 

[Kieran McConville]

Well the 'war' on terror is a hoax, right enough.

Terrorism itself is a method not an entity. That should be mere commonsense.

America may well be under threat from terrorists, but they belong mainly to the nativist Right. They'll come from under the same rock as Timothy McVeigh or the Aryan Nations, and all the homeland security in the world won't stop them. In extremis, I'd say they are a symptom of an undeclared civil war, although in no way do the nuts represent a majority of the nation.

 

[A stor]

My take on the article is.....how much Americans were actually "brainwashed" into a state of high anxiety and unrelenting fear. I remember those color coded levels. One day, we were fine, the next day, all hell was going to break loose. Planes and bombs, coming at us from all directions, killing everyone.

There were people who lived in small towns, U.S.A. Who honestly believed that a "terrorist" was going to blow them up with a dirty bomb. And these folks, weren't being racist or stupid. It was just that Mr. Bush, had the American people really believing that this was going to happen. Anytime, anywhere.

 

[yolland]

.

CIA to Obama: British Pakistani terrorists biggest threat to the US

by Tim Shipman
Telegraph (UK), 07 Feb 2009


American spy chiefs have told the President that the CIA has launched a vast spying operation in the UK to prevent a repeat of the 9/11 attacks being launched from Britain. They believe that a British-born Pakistani extremist entering the US under the visa waiver programme is the most likely source of another terrorist spectacular on American soil. Intelligence briefings for Mr Obama have detailed a dramatic escalation in American espionage in Britain, where the CIA has recruited record numbers of informants in the Pakistani community to monitor the 2000 terrorist suspects identified by MI5, the British security service.

A British intelligence source revealed that a staggering 4 out of 10 CIA operations designed to thwart direct attacks on the US are now conducted against targets in Britain. ...The British official said: "The Americans run their own assets in the Pakistani community; they get their own intelligence. There's close cooperation with MI5 but they don't tell us the names of all their sources. Around 40% of CIA activity on homeland threats is now in the UK. This is quite unprecedented." Explaining the increase in CIA activity over the past month, [former CIA officer Bruce] Riedel added: "In the aftermath of the Mumbai attack the US and the UK intelligence services now have to regard Lashkar-e-Taiba as just as serious a threat to both of our countries as al-Qaeda. They have a much more extensive base among Pakistani Diaspora communities in the UK than al–Qaeda."

Information gleaned by CIA spies in Britain has already helped thwart several terrorist attacks in the UK and was instrumental in locating Rashid Rauf, a British-born al-Qaeda operative implicated in a plot to explode airliners over the Atlantic, who was tracked down and killed in a US missile strike in November.

...Jonathan Evans, the director general of MI5, admitted in January that the Security Service alone does not have the resources to maintain surveillance on all its targets. "We don't have anything approaching comprehensive coverage," he said. The dramatic escalation in CIA activity in the UK followed the exposure in August 2006 of Operation Overt, the alleged airline bomb plot.

...For their part, some British officials are queasy that information obtained by the CIA from British Pakistanis was used to help target Mr Rauf, a British citizen, whom they would have preferred to capture and bring to trial. Sensitivities over the intelligence arrangement formed a key part of briefings given to Mr Obama, since they are central to what is often called "the most special part of the special relationship" and could complicate his dealings with Gordon Brown.

Tensions in transatlantic intelligence relations which were laid bare last week during the High Court battle over Binyam Mohamed, the British resident held in Guanatanamo Bay. British judges wanted to publish details of the torture administered to Mr Mohamed, an Ethiopian national, in US custody. But key paragraphs were blacked out after American officials threatened it could damage intelligence sharing between the two countries. Intelligence experts said that a trusting intelligence relationship, in which one country does not publish intelligence data obtained by the other, is vital to both countries' national security.

 

[solemole]

... and my friends think I'm "paranoid."

 

[financeguy]

Well the 'war' on terror is a hoax, right enough.

Terrorism itself is a method not an entity. That should be mere commonsense.

America may well be under threat from terrorists, but they belong mainly to the nativist Right. They'll come from under the same rock as Timothy McVeigh or the Aryan Nations, and all the homeland security in the world won't stop them. In extremis, I'd say they are a symptom of an undeclared civil war, although in no way do the nuts represent a majority of the nation.

I read somewhere that Aryan Nations has produced more terrorists than any other single US organisation (excluding the CIA, heh heh)

 

[Kieran McConville]

Although in fairness they have probably slipped into obscurity in recent decades.

It's not so much the specific organisation as the wider movement of like minded souls, with ebbs and flows of seriousness and seriousness of organisation. On the whole they are as prone to infinite splintering as the old hard left was.

 

[yolland]

In recent years the most active US domestic terrorist groups, by far, have actually been the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front. Aryan Nations membership today is tiny, estimated at no more than a couple hundred individuals--compared to, say, the estimated thousands associated with the admittedly far more amorphous militia movement, which McVeigh and Nichols had ties to. The latter is driven primarily by anti-government sentiment (of the far-right variety) and, when violent, usually attacks federal buildings and officials; the former is driven primarily by white supremacist ideology and, when violent, usually attacks minority community centers or churches/synagogues. Not that there aren't individuals with ideological sympathies towards both, but at least at this point, we're statistically much more likely (God forbid) to see mass deaths from militia members attacking another government building than from stereotypical white supremacists attacking black churches or synagogues.

One reason why international terrorist groups get so much investigative attention (though domestic groups are hardly ignored--see below) is simply the association with higher casualties. Of the 3,191 people killed in US terrorist incidents from 1980 to 2005, 3,017 of them--94.5% of the total--died from the 9/11 attacks. 1995--the year of the Oklahoma City bombing, which killed 168--was the only other year in that entire period when terrorism fatalities exceeded single digits (most years there are no fatalities). The Earth Liberation Front (ELF) and Animal Liberation Front (ALF), by contrast, commit "only" arson and vandalism; they've never killed or injured anyone here, nor are their attacks intended to (at least, so far as I can tell from the FBI data).

The FBI issues summary reports on US terrorist incidents every few years, including statistics and basic data on both completed and prevented incidents. They don't have reports up for '06-'08 yet, but just for the heck of it, here's a brief tally of their records for '02-'05:



2002: 8 completed incidents; 1 prevented incident; 2 deaths

--7 arson attacks either by ELF alone, or by ELF & ALF acting jointly
--6 Israeli tourists shot, 2 fatally, at El Al's LA airport desk by an Egyptian national, no affiliation specified
--prevented: 9/11 revenge plot involving attacks on Muslim community sites; no affiliation specified, plotters all related


2003: 6 completed incidents; 5 prevented incidents; 0 deaths

--3 ELF arson attacks
--3 ALF arson attacks
--prevented: man, affiliation unspecified, plotting to bomb abortion clinic
--prevented: same as preceding, but different guy, who also planned to attack unspecified "minority sites"
--prevented: militia movement associate plotting to murder several federal tax officials
--prevented: militia movement associate caught with heavy weapons, sodium cyanide; intent apparently unknown
--prevented: anarchist plot to firebomb Coast Guard facility


2004: 5 completed incidents; 5 prevented incidents; 0 deaths

--3 ELF arson attacks
--1 ALF arson attack
--synagogue firebombed by Aryan Nations member
--prevented: another synagogue attack by the same AN member
--prevented: militia movement plot to kidnap local judges, police, and their families
--prevented: man, affiliation unspecified, trying to buy C-4 explosives and Sarin gas to blow up a federal courthouse
--prevented: 2 men caught with guns, half-built bombs (possession of "lit. on Waco, Ruby Ridge" noted, but not affiliation or intent)
--prevented: man, affiliation unspecified, trying to sell ammonium nitrate to an unspecified "foreign terrorist organization"


2005: 5 completed incidents; 3 prevented incidents; 0 deaths

--3 ELF arson attacks
--2 ALF arson attacks
--prevented: "prison-based jihadi group" plotting to attack an army base, Israeli consulate, and a synagogue
--prevented: man, affiliation unspecified, trying to provide explosives designs to al-Qaeda
--prevented: same as preceding, but different guy

 

[MadelynIris]

If America were infected with terrorists, we would not need the government to tell us. We would know it from events. As there are no events, the US government substitutes warnings in order to keep alive the fear that causes the public to accept pointless wars, the infringement of civil liberty, national ID cards, and inconveniences and harassments when they fly.

Laughable.

What sorts of events does this guy need?

 

[diamond]

if the war on terror is a hoax, then charles manson should be remembered as a crusader.

 

[BVS]

Fantastic logic...

 

[financeguy]

if the war on terror is a hoax, then charles manson should be remembered as a crusader.

Not seeing the connection here....Charles Manson wanted to start a race war, surely he has more in common with the Aryan Nations types already referred to? The hippy version of Aryan Nations, perhaps.

 

[diamond]

Try explaining to this man's family that the War on Terror is a hoax..


<>

 

[Diemen]

The War On Terror ≠ Terrorism

 

[diamond]

is this a discussion of semantics?

<>

 

[Diemen]

No, it's a very important distinction. Calling the War on Terror a hoax does not mean you don't believe terrorism is real. As your previous post implied.

 

[Irvine511]

My take on the article is.....how much Americans were actually "brainwashed" into a state of high anxiety and unrelenting fear.

it wasn't brainwashing at all. or, maybe it was brainwashing, but i view much of the American population as innocent victims of the Bush administration and large swaths of the Republican Party.

the US in 2002 was rightly terrified, and our leaders at the time murderously cynically utilized this for their own goals. very powerful men used fear to frighten a populace into acquiescing -- for a short while -- to their reactionary agenda which included, but was not limited to, a remaking of the Middle East, a reduction of civil liberties, and a wild expansion of the powers of the executive.

by 2004, almost half of us had caught on and did our best to boot the criminals from office. by 2006, we had mostly succeeded. and now, in 2009, we're all left to pick up the pieces.

 

[U2lunatic]

Try explaining to this man's family that the War on Terror is a hoax..


<>

what is this comparing to what American soldiers do to Arab prisoners. Arabs treated this man by miles better than Americans do.

 

[diamond]

what is this comparing to what American soldiers do to Arab prisoners. .

we put panties on their heads.
they decapitate us.

is that the same thing to you?

<>

 

[phillyfan26]

we put panties on their heads.
they decapitate us.

is that the same thing to you?

<>

Really?

 

[A stor]

it wasn't brainwashing at all. or, maybe it was brainwashing, but i view much of the American population as innocent victims of the Bush administration and large swaths of the Republican Party.

the US in 2002 was rightly terrified, and our leaders at the time murderously cynically utilized this for their own goals. very powerful men used fear to frighten a populace into acquiescing -- for a short while -- to their reactionary agenda which included, but was not limited to, a remaking of the Middle East, a reduction of civil liberties, and a wild expansion of the powers of the executive.

by 2004, almost half of us had caught on and did our best to boot the criminals from office. by 2006, we had mostly succeeded. and now, in 2009, we're all left to pick up the pieces.

Well said, Irvine!

 

[Bonoa]

I've been saying for years now that the war on terror was a hoax. Bush started it to cover up the problems in his own country. There was also no room for human rights. Now the whole world is in a financial crisis, because of the debts the US made. We, in the Netherlands also have to pay for it, as usual. Thank you mr. Bush! And a big thank you to the idiots who have always voted republican.

 

[A stor]

I've been saying for years now that the war on terror was a hoax. Bush started it to cover up the problems in his own country. There was also no room for human rights. Now the whole world is in a financial crisis, because of the debts the US made. We, in the Netherlands also have to pay for it, as usual. Thank you mr. Bush! And a big thank you to the idiots who have always voted republican.

I don't understand. How is the Netherlands paying for America's economical problems?

 

[UberBeaver]

2002: 8 completed incidents; 1 prevented incident; 2 deaths

--7 arson attacks either by ELF alone, or by ELF & ALF acting jointly



2003: 6 completed incidents; 5 prevented incidents; 0 deaths

--3 ELF arson attacks
--3 ALF arson attacks


2004: 5 completed incidents; 5 prevented incidents; 0 deaths

--3 ELF arson attacks
--1 ALF arson attack


2005: 5 completed incidents; 3 prevented incidents; 0 deaths

--3 ELF arson attacks
--2 ALF arson attacks

I knew that little bastard from Melmac was up to no good. And I have never trusted Sindarns, especially if they try to pass themselves off as Silvan.

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TERROR!!