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Old 08-27-2009, 06:13 PM   #151
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anything that remotely inconveniences a libertarian is tyranny.

they want what they want when they want it, and fuck off if you don't like it.

it's awesome being a libertarian.
Right, ok, funny. But given the US cops have just killed a citizen yet again ( Man dies after being Tasered in subway by L.A. deputy - On Deadline - USATODAY.com : all in a day's work for the 'protect and serve' brigade), perhaps it's about time the libertarian argument was given a hearing, don't you think?
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:41 PM   #152
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Right, ok, funny. But given the US cops have just killed a citizen yet again ( Man dies after being Tasered in subway by L.A. deputy - On Deadline - USATODAY.com : all in a day's work for the 'protect and serve' brigade), perhaps it's about time the libertarian argument was given a hearing, don't you think?
Maybe he shouldn't have been attacking an armed Sheriff's Deputy, or is that a Libertarian right too ?

Of course, he COULD have just answered the damn question.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:42 PM   #153
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Maybe he shouldn't have been attacking an armed Sheriff's Deputy, or is that a Libertarian right too ?

Of course, he COULD have just answered the damn question.
Words fail me.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:51 PM   #154
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Words fail me.
Just as they failed the guy in question. One was all he needed, "yes" or "no".
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:05 PM   #155
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Just as they failed the guy in question. One was all he needed, "yes" or "no".
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:08 PM   #156
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:11 PM   #157
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I think I am probably wasting my time with you, you have overdosed on statist Koolaid for too long.

However, I will just ask one question.

Can you outline the circumstances in which you consider it acceptable for a citizen's life to be terminated for 'not answering a question'?
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:19 PM   #158
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perhaps it's about time the libertarian argument was given a hearing, don't you think?


in my experience, libertarian "arguments" amount to little more than "i do what i want" utopianism. they're, at heart, irresponsible, though they cloak themselves in a misunderstanding of "responsibility."

being opposed to the police tasering people to death has nothing to do with libertarianism.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:20 PM   #159
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I think I am probably wasting my time with you, you have overdosed on statist Koolaid for too long.

However, I will just ask one question.

Can you outline the circumstances in which you consider it acceptable for a citizen's life to be terminated for 'not answering a question'?
Since all we have to go is the published report, it's clear to even remedial readers that his life wasn't "terminated" for not answering a question.

He allegedly repeatedly attacked a Sheriff's deputy, most of us would have gotten the message after 1 tasering that maybe it's not a good idea to keep attacking the man in uniform with the weapon.

Was excess forced used ? Maybe, maybe not. Until witness step forward and the inevitable cell phone video surfaces we'll never know.

What IS clear though is that "given the US cops have just killed a citizen yet again" is hardly a statement free from bias and as long as that is the approach you take in light of the available information, then you are definitely wasting your time with me.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:33 PM   #160
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For the record I find heavy-handed police use of tasers to be very troubling, and am no fan of automatic cap-doffing when it comes to the boys and girls in blue.

On the other hand... not a libertarian, so much. I still believe the drink driving laws are probably not a tyranny, nor that seatbelts lead to pussy ass wimps.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:42 PM   #161
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Right, ok, funny. But given the US cops have just killed a citizen yet again ( Man dies after being Tasered in subway by L.A. deputy - On Deadline - USATODAY.com : all in a day's work for the 'protect and serve' brigade), perhaps it's about time the libertarian argument was given a hearing, don't you think?
So wait, just so I understand your logic here...

You see a few law enforcers as getting out of hand, so the actual laws themselves should be written differently?

That doesn't make any sense to me.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:12 PM   #162
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Since all we have to go is the published report, it's clear to even remedial readers that his life wasn't "terminated" for not answering a question.

He allegedly repeatedly attacked a Sheriff's deputy, most of us would have gotten the message after 1 tasering that maybe it's not a good idea to keep attacking the man in uniform with the weapon.

Was excess forced used ? Maybe, maybe not. Until witness step forward and the inevitable cell phone video surfaces we'll never know.

What IS clear though is that "given the US cops have just killed a citizen yet again" is hardly a statement free from bias and as long as that is the approach you take in light of the available information, then you are definitely wasting your time with me.
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So wait, just so I understand your logic here...

You see a few law enforcers as getting out of hand, so the actual laws themselves should be written differently?

That doesn't make any sense to me.

I think what neither of you two guys grasp is that it these kinds of events are, though not completely unheard of, very unusual in Europe and when they do happen, most people are disgusted and full independent investigations are conducted, e.g.:


Barr Tribunal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3071557/Jean


The extent to which the US citizenry seemingly permits these kinds of abuses is quite disturbing and incomprehensible to outsiders. In other few days, there'll probably be another such incident, by which time this one will have been forgotten about. And so on.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:17 PM   #163
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I think what neither of you two guys grasp is that it these kinds of events are, though not completely unheard of, very unusual in Europe and when they do happen, most people are disgusted and full investigations are conducted, e.g.:


Barr Tribunal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3071557/Jean


The extent to which the US citizenry seemingly permits these kinds of abuses is quite disturbing and incomprehensible to outsiders. In other few days, there'll probably be another such incident, by which time this one will have been forgotten about. And so on.


Yeah, like they're NOT investigated here.

Rodney King anyone ?

Really, you appear to know very little about what happens in the US
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:19 PM   #164
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Yeah, like they're NOT investigated here.
In the US, such investigations are usually pre-determined to favour the cops. The fact that incidents such as this keep happening in spite of investigations, should trouble you as a US citizen, but it seemingly doesn't. That's probably why you come across to me like a statist KoolAid drinker.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:26 PM   #165
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In the US, such investigations are usually pre-determined to favour the cops.
Speculation and assumption

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The fact that incidents such as this keep happening in spite of investigations, should trouble you as a US citizen,
That's one hell of a glass house you live in there !

And I'm not a US citizen

So many assumptions, so few facts.....
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