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Old 06-29-2010, 09:20 PM   #181
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perhaps from a professional standpoint, but from an ideological one? really? you think Olbermann is as Left as Rush/Beck are Right?
I really don't know a thing about this Olbermann guy--which again tells you who has more cultural clout. I don't think Olbermann has ever been on the cover of Time magazine. Both Beck and Limbaugh have. Limbaugh was named one of the most influential people in the world by Time. Beck may have been as well, I don't know. I'm reasonablly sure Olbermann hasn't been.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:29 PM   #182
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they also make their money by trashing and discrediting actual journalists, which further increases their market share. why read the newspaper when Rush will read it for you?
Would those be the same "actual" journalists that tried to bury or ignore stories about Rev Wright, John Edward's lovechild, the radical Islamic history of the Ft Hood shooter, the ACORN scandal, Climategate, the success of the surge in Iraq, and many more?

In fact, if you only get your news from The NY Times or NBC News you may still think Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder rather than a case of Sudden Jihad Fever.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:31 PM   #183
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Would those be the same "actual" journalists that tried to bury or ignore stories about Rev Wright, John Edward's lovechild, the radical Islamic history of the Ft Hood shooter, the ACORN scandal, Climategate, the success of the surge in Iraq, and many more?

In fact, if you only get your news from The NY Times or NBC News you may still think Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder rather than a case of Sudden Jihad Fever.
I don't read the NY Times or watch NBC news.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:43 PM   #184
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Would those be the same "actual" journalists that tried to bury or ignore stories about Rev Wright, John Edward's lovechild, the radical Islamic history of the Ft Hood shooter, the ACORN scandal, Climategate, the success of the surge in Iraq, and many more?
Maybe I'm watching entirely different news outlets than you are, but these stories got quite a bit of coverage, save for perhaps the surge in Iraq (and I still fail to see how anything relating to Iraq can be called a "success" considering we should never have gone there to begin with, but that's an entirely different topic). Hell, even "The Daily Show" talked about some of that stuff quite a bit.

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In fact, if you only get your news from The NY Times or NBC News you may still think Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder rather than a case of Sudden Jihad Fever.
I too have not read The New York Times, and when I heard that story it wasn't on NBC news, if I recall rightly-I certainly heard and read about it in a few news outlets...and honestly, post-traumatic stress disorder was the very first thing that came to my mind. You never know, that could've been a part of it, too. War fucks people up.

Angela
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:49 PM   #185
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Would those be the same "actual" journalists that tried to bury or ignore stories about Rev Wright, John Edward's lovechild, the radical Islamic history of the Ft Hood shooter, the ACORN scandal, Climategate, the success of the surge in Iraq, and many more?
Rev Wright about as relevant as Palin's twisted views about dinosaurs.

John Edward's love child, I don't think the fact that the Enquirer got it first really means someone tried to "bury" it.

Do you mean they tried to bury the fact that the military ignored his history?

Whatever happen to that ACORN scandal, did the pimp get another job? Although I do think it's rather unfortunate that the bi-partisan investigation that ruled it was clever editing didn't get enough press.

If you'd listen to real journalist instead of Rush you'd know there was no "extraction" or Constitution issue in the Obama/BP deal.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:18 PM   #186
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Pretty much everyone--including those of us on the left-- is racist to some degree. Very few people own it.
I try to work on it.



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Imagine it was their agenda, antifemnist, antihomosexual, antimulti-cultural that was winning the day. How would you feel? Maybe a little bit scared?
I thought about this while having pesto and watching TCM.

We just got through with 8 years of this, and I remember the Reagan years as well. (I was in college.) I wasn't afraid. I can say that honestly. I was active and did what I could to change things, but fear wasn't my motivation. Concern for the state of our country, sure, but not actual fear. No one whipped me up into name-calling, with threats against those who were on power and examples of spurious history. I didn't envision an apocalypse, (although there were many on the left who did).

So, no, I maintain my disdain for anyone who allows fear to cloud their judgement, who allows it to color their long-term thinking about their country, or who allows someone as proudly stupid as Palin (or Beck or Rush) to guide their thoughts.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:28 PM   #187
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Would those be the same "actual" journalists that tried to bury or ignore stories about Rev Wright, John Edward's lovechild, the radical Islamic history of the Ft Hood shooter, the ACORN scandal, Climategate, the success of the surge in Iraq, and many more?

In fact, if you only get your news from The NY Times or NBC News you may still think Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder rather than a case of Sudden Jihad Fever.


thank you for proving the point exactly.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:29 AM   #188
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I try to work on it.





I thought about this while having pesto and watching TCM.

We just got through with 8 years of this, and I remember the Reagan years as well. (I was in college.) I wasn't afraid. I can say that honestly. I was active and did what I could to change things, but fear wasn't my motivation. Concern for the state of our country, sure, but not actual fear. No one whipped me up into name-calling, with threats against those who were on power and examples of spurious history. I didn't envision an apocalypse, (although there were many on the left who did).

So, no, I maintain my disdain for anyone who allows fear to cloud their judgement, who allows it to color their long-term thinking about their country, or who allows someone as proudly stupid as Palin (or Beck or Rush) to guide their thoughts.
I didn't mean to suggest that you would allow fear to color your judgment, just to suggest that you could see how a decent person could.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:19 AM   #189
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Would those be the same "actual" journalists that tried to bury or ignore stories about Rev Wright, John Edward's lovechild, the radical Islamic history of the Ft Hood shooter, the ACORN scandal, Climategate, the success of the surge in Iraq, and many more?

In fact, if you only get your news from The NY Times or NBC News you may still think Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder rather than a case of Sudden Jihad Fever.
Indy, my friend!

You can easily find out the amount of time devoted to coverage of each topic by each media outlet.

Look it up some time, and you'll find these issues were far from ignored.

Rev Wright and ACORN were, if anything, blown way, way out of proportion.

Obama never agreed with Wright's expressed views, Wright wasn't a part of the campaign. Obama never worked for ACORN or associated himself with them.

Obama was being held to the absurd standard of having to own the views of pretty much anyone he ever met.

Quick 2 question experiment to demonstrate the MSM is not as liberal as many think it is:

1.)Bush wanted to take us into an unprecedented first strike war because he claimed there was an imminent threat from Iraq. Who in the MSM bothered to question him in the least little bit about how Iraq had all of a sudden morphed into a deadly threat armed with nuclear weapons pointed at Manhattan?

2.)Walk up to anyone on the street.

Mention 2 names:

Rev.Wright

Ted Haggard

Wright will get a response from most people as the crazy Obama guy after a few seconds thought.

Haggard would get 95% of the American public running for google or wikipedia.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:10 AM   #190
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I didn't mean to suggest that you would allow fear to color your judgment, just to suggest that you could see how a decent person could.

I see.

And I think I see.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:07 PM   #191
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perhaps from a professional standpoint, but from an ideological one? really? you think Olbermann is as Left as Rush/Beck are Right?
The problem is that the barometer for Left (at least on this board) is probably somewhere to the right of anarchy. (In the same way that my ultra-conservative friends consider Right to be something along the lines of Attila the Hun.) Everyone's a moderate in their own mind.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:18 PM   #192
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The problem is that the barometer for Left (at least on this board) is probably somewhere to the right of anarchy. (In the same way that my ultra-conservative friends consider Right to be something along the lines of Attila the Hun.) Everyone's a moderate in their own mind.


i suppose it is all about context. if FYM were made up of, say, continental Europeans, it would be dismissed as right-of-center, pro-American ideology.

i don't consider myself a moderate, but i do feel as if i'm entirely reasonable.

though i'm confused about the anarchy thing. what i hear from the right is that we want total 1984-style government control over all aspects of life. which is it? (not a question necessarily directed at you)
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:10 PM   #193
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i suppose it is all about context. if FYM were made up of, say, continental Europeans, it would be dismissed as right-of-center, pro-American ideology.
You mean it's not? Huh.

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what i hear from the right is that we want total 1984-style government control over all aspects of life. which is it? (not a question necessarily directed at you)
No clue on that score. I'm not sure where libertarians fall on that scale -- they tend to be ultra-limited government as well -- but tend to be more socially liberal as well (gay marriage, marijuana legalization, states' rights, etc.).

I wouldn't be surprised if the typical political labels become increasingly irrelevant in the next twenty years.
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Old 06-30-2010, 04:55 PM   #194
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Don't forget the other axis, y'all. It's not just Left/Right.
Think Libertarian/Authoritarian.

Somewhere to the right of 'Socialism' not Anarchy.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:02 PM   #195
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I tend to be socially liberal and financially responsible. Not conservative or liberal, just responsible. I feel government should play a balanced role-no, of course, I don't want them running every last aspect of my life, but they ARE here for a reason, and I say that if you get competent people in any government, from federal down to local, you will get competent results. So I have no clue where that'd put me on the scale.

I don't think most people here are too extreme in their thinking. Most of you sound pretty much like a lot of people in the U.S. and abroad-liberal on some issues, conservative on others. Heated debates ensue, but so long as everyone's respectful and brings intelligent discussion to the table, I won't hold your views against you if we happen to disagree on something. That's just how life is.

Angela
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