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Old 08-27-2015, 10:42 AM   #91
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The 2nd Amendment should be changed. The Constitution was made to be a living breathing document. It was NEVER meant to be the end all, be all. It was specifically designed to be changed as times changed.
Not jumping in the debate here, but you'd be surprised at how many people will debate whether it is a living document or not (amending considerations aside). That side of the argument is often called 'originalism' or 'original intent'. Similar arguments come about even when interpreting modern day laws: whether words should always be interpreted literally, whether we need to look at the intent of those that wrote the law/Constitution, etc. Seems it should be more clear-cut than that, but for some reason, that's not the case.
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:47 AM   #92
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Not jumping in the debate here, but you'd be surprised at how many people will debate whether it is a living document or not (amending considerations aside). That side of the argument is often called 'originalism' or 'original intent'. Similar arguments come about even when interpreting modern day laws: whether words should always be interpreted literally, whether we need to look at the intent of those that wrote the law/Constitution, etc. Seems it should be more clear-cut than that, but for some reason, that's not the case.


It's amazing how Scalia claims to be an originalist ... Except on this one single issue.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:01 AM   #93
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Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but Australia did not effectively ban guns. Australia made it much more difficult to purchase guns, and have much stronger regulations, but my reading is that in no way did they ban guns.
In 1996, they had a compulsory gun buyback, banned semi-automatics, some rifles and shotguns and tightened up regulations elsewhere. No, guns are not banned in Australia.

The compulsory buyback is what wouldn't take here, but it's also a necessary element of cleaning house.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:17 AM   #94
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It's amazing how Scalia claims to be an originalist ... Except on this one single issue.
I thought it was Scalia that once used a pre-1787 dictionary to explain a word from the Constitution in a case opinion, but I can't find a source for it right now. If you do a quick Google search though, it's definitely a means used by some originalists for justifying Constitutional language.

If you have a moment to kill, there's a Duke Law School article which has some interesting viewpoints on those sorts of textual matters.

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/...74&context=dlj
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:16 PM   #95
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Responsible Gun Owner Keeps Firearms Safely Locked Away Where Only He Can Get Them During Mental Breakdown - The Onion - America's Finest News Source
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:34 PM   #96
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A lot in here I agree with.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/27/op...ting.html?_r=0

■ More Americans die in gun homicides and suicides every six months than have died in the last 25 years in every terrorist attack and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

■ More Americans have died from guns in the United States since 1968 than on battlefields of all the wars in American history.

■ American children are 14 times as likely to die from guns as children in other developed countries, according to David Hemenway, a Harvard professor and author of an excellent book on firearm safety.


...

The lesson from the ongoing carnage is not that we need a modern prohibition (that would raise constitutional issues and be impossible politically), but that we should address gun deaths as a public health crisis. To protect the public, we regulate toys and mutual funds, ladders and swimming pools. Shouldn’t we regulate guns as seriously as we regulate toys?
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:47 PM   #97
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I posted this last night, but I'll post it again. I don't know who he is, but it's a very funny bit on a very serious topic. You all should watch it if you haven't already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...D8&app=desktop
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:19 PM   #98
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I'm getting so frustrated with the whole "knives/cars" comparisons that always seem to come up in these debates. Yes, knives and cars have been used to commit murder. Absolutely.

But that is not their only use. That is not what they were designed for. They have plenty of non-violent uses.
It's pretty easy to get off of this argument.

How easily could you live if you didn't own a car? For most Americans, this would be nearly impossible, such a hassle that you'd just say fuck it and own a car.

Try living your life without knives!!! That butter aint gonna spread itself. Do you use your hands to open the turkey at Thanksgiving

Now, can you live your life without a gun? yes
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:45 PM   #99
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It's pretty easy to get off of this argument.

How easily could you live if you didn't own a car? For most Americans, this would be nearly impossible, such a hassle that you'd just say fuck it and own a car.

Try living your life without knives!!! That butter aint gonna spread itself. Do you use your hands to open the turkey at Thanksgiving

Now, can you live your life without a gun? yes


there are car/pool/ladder accidents. we call these accidents because that's what they are -- mistakes where people die.

guns are used to kill people. of course a gun can kill someone accidentally, but usually, it's a suicide or homicide.

how can anyone not see the difference? the law certainly does.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:54 PM   #100
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There's nothing really to add, but it does make you wonder when you can't buy a kinderegg in the States because they are oh so dangerous, but you can just pick up an assault rifle.


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Old 08-27-2015, 06:19 PM   #101
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I once cleared out an airport with 2 kindereggs.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:20 PM   #102
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there are car/pool/ladder accidents. we call these accidents because that's what they are -- mistakes where people die.

guns are used to kill people. of course a gun can kill someone accidentally, but usually, it's a suicide or homicide.

how can anyone not see the difference? the law certainly does.
Agree.

There is a mental health issue here in America though, and it's our inability to use reason or logic when it comes to firearms. As soon as someone, or multiple people are killed with them, our politicians and large amount of americans go mental gymnastics to argue against anything than the object used to kill.

Other countries have had issues with gun violence like ours, and they took the steps to correct it. We still live in the wild west.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:33 PM   #103
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this is what i'm talking about. this is why it isn't about mental health. it isn't about culture and history. we don't have a significantly more violent society than others, or significantly more crime.

it's about the prevalence of an object designed to kill people in the most efficient way possible. our criminals -- and average people, who sometimes have really bad days -- have easy access to lethal force.

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The seminal work here is a 1999 book by Berkeley's Franklin Zimring and Gordon Hawkins, called Crime Is not the Problem. Zimring and Hawkins set out to examine what was, at the time, the conventional wisdom: that America had a uniquely terrible crime problem, one without any parallel in other developed democracies.

They found, pretty definitively, that the conventional wisdom was wrong. "Rates of common property crimes in the United States are comparable to those reported in many other Western industrial nations, but rates of lethal violence in the United States are much higher," they write. "Violence is not a crime problem."

Zimring and Hawkins determined this by looking at 20 developed countries' overall crime rate and rates of violent death. They found virtually no connection between the two, indicating that a country's level of violent death wasn't determined by its overall crime levels:

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The lowest death rate country (England) has a crime rate just over average. The next lowest violence nation is Japan, which has the lowest crime rate also. The third lowest death rate country is the Netherlands, in the highest crime rate group.
"This data set provides a multinational example of the central point that lethal violence is the crucial problem in the United States," Zimring and Hawkins write. "It shows the United States clustered with other industrial countries in crime rate, but head and shoulders above the rest in violent death."

Why does this happen? It's not because, as you might think, American violent criminals are just more likely to kill people. "Only a minority of Los Angeles homicides grow out of criminal encounters like robbery and rape," they find (there's no reason to believe the pattern would differ in other cities). So even if it could be shown that American robbery and rape rates are across-the-board higher than those in similar countries (which doesn't appear true today), that still wouldn't explain why America has so many more homicides than other countries.

Again, Zimring and Hawkins's LA data was revealing. "A far greater proportion of Los Angeles homicides grow out of arguments and other social encounters between acquaintances [than robbery or rape]," they find.

This is where guns enter the story. The mere presence of firearms, according to Zimring and Hawkins, makes a merely tense situation more likely to turn deadly. When a gang member argues with another gang member, or a robber sticks up a liquor store, there's always a risk that the situation can escalate to some kind of violence. But when people have a handheld tool that is specially engineered for violently killing, escalation to murder becomes much, much more likely.

And indeed, that's what Zimring and Hawkins's data found. "A series of specific comparisons of the death rates from property crime and assault in New York City and London show how enormous differences in death risk can be explained even while general patterns are similar," they explain. "A preference for crimes of personal force and the willingness and ability to use guns in robbery make similar levels of property crime fifty-four times as deadly in New York City as in London."

America doesn’t have more crime than other rich countries. It just has more guns. - Vox
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:38 PM   #104
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There should be graphic warning labels on guns, showing the aftermath of a toddler getting ahold of one and shooting their mother.

Sadly, if the murder of 20 small children didn't get anything accomplished, nothing will. It's sick that gun owners are ok with the senseless murder of children just so they can pretend to be Dirty Harry. Because, that's the result of their "freedom to bear arms", the highest gun violence rate in any developed country. Congrats, assholes.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:53 PM   #105
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There's nothing really to add, but it does make you wonder when you can't buy a kinderegg in the States because they are oh so dangerous, but you can just pick up an assault rifle.
Because the Constitution doesn't talk about "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of delicious Kinder Eggs." Duh.




 
I realize that's from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, but just roll with it.
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