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Old 08-21-2013, 04:20 PM   #31
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Do you dispute the facts of the article, or are you going to hope we all settle for your ad hominem fallacy? On the other hand, maybe the Left is getting its act together. It turns out this author worked for Al Gore.
I was speaking to the publication itself and it's publisher.

I would have to look into the facts(although they seem pretty thin), but when you start off an article like
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Unfortunately, America’s top newspapers find it too hot to handle
I have to wonder what the point of the article is...

Having religious leaders have rule over governmental law is dangerous, no matter what the religion. Minorities will be targeted and blamed.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:22 PM   #32
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i deplore all violence, and i understand that in some parts of the world, religious violence is aimed at Christians. it's every bit as bad as all other religiously-motivated animus.

can we move on now?
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:50 PM   #33
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it's every bit as bad as all other religiously-motivated animus.

can we move on now?
Maybe. Do you really think in this day and age, there is any other religion that is slaughtering "non-adherents" on the scale of Islam?

Is it possible there is not as much intellectual and popular opposition to Islam because professors and journalists are afraid of reprisals?
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:00 PM   #34
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I have to wonder what the point of the article is...
That WAS the point

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Having religious leaders have rule over governmental law is dangerous, no matter what the religion. Minorities will be targeted and blamed.
True, but how many Christian/Buddhist/Jewish theocracies exist in the world today? There are several such Islamic states and another handful that are not exactly there, but are close to it.

One of the few exceptions is modern Turkey - but of course, the Christians were already wiped out about 100 years ago:

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wikipedia The Armenian Genocide was the Ottoman government's systematic extermination of its minority Armenian subjects from their historic homeland in the territory constituting the present-day Republic of Turkey. It took place during and after World War I and was implemented in two phases: the wholesale killing of the able-bodied male population through massacre and forced labor, and the deportation of women, children, the elderly and infirm on death marches to the Syrian Desert. The total number of people killed as a result has been estimated at between 1 and 1.5 million. Other indigenous and Christian ethnic groups such as the Assyrians, the Greeks and other minority groups were similarly targeted for extermination by the Ottoman government, and their treatment is considered by many historians to be part of the same genocidal policy.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:05 PM   #35
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The violence in Egypt doesn't fit neatly into the 'it's all Islam's' fault anyway. A great number of people in Egypt seem to have voted a for a mainly Islamic government (now I know there are reports of vote fraud and intimidation but then there are plenty also saying it was a fair enough election. either way its a bit inconclusive what actually happened). Before this Egypt was more or less a secular dictatorship which abused its people. While Morsi certainly started implementing a form of theocracy he was elected by the people as far as we know. Now we have a a country being controlled by its military which is quite secular in its outlook murdering former supporters of the deposed government, a broad swathe of whom appear to be relatively innocent protesters. And then you have the Islamic fundamentalists targetting the Christians, no doubt as scapegoat for what they see as Western influence in their affairs and of course it's awful and wrong of them to do this.

But as you can see its not really a simple right or wrong situation where the Muslims are the bad guys and the biggest perpetrators of violence in this situation. I'd say the secular military is doing much more killing than anyone else in Egypt.

There have been wars in the Middle East where Christians have been just as evil as whatever Muslim force they are fighting against as well, such as the Maronite Christians in the Lebanese civil war.

And as always i'll argue the position that most violence is between the haves and have nots, very little is motivated purely by religions. This whole build up of Islam against the oh so brilliant West is absurd.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:10 PM   #36
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That WAS the point

True, but how many Christian/Buddhist/Jewish theocracies exist in the world today? There are several such Islamic states and another handful that are not exactly there, but are close to it.

One of the few exception is modern Turkey - but of course, the Christians were already wiped out about 100 years ago:
The Nazis tried to wipe out the Jews only 60 years ago, Russians did similar with their ethnic groups, the Chinese in parts continue to suppress many of its ethnic groups. Its not so much a uniquely Islamic quality, Britain itself has been involved in the slaughter and torture of the Mau Maus (hey and why not throw in where i'm from Northern Ireland as well).

Lots of historical examples near and far.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:15 PM   #37
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The Nazis tried to wipe out the Jews only 60 years ago, Russians did similar with their ethnic groups, the Chinese in parts continue to suppress many of its ethnic groups. Its not so much a uniquely Islamic quality, Britain itself has been involved in the slaughter and torture of the Mau Maus (hey and why not throw in where i'm from Northern Ireland as well).

Lots of historical examples near and far.
True - but Islam is the current "mean kid" on the block.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:19 PM   #38
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And as always i'll argue the position that most violence is between the haves and have nots, very little is motivated purely by religions. This whole build up of Islam against the oh so brilliant West is absurd.
That is true at the highest levels, at least in most cases, but these leaders will certainly use religious ideology to stir up the masses.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:22 PM   #39
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I'd really like to know what this weeping and wailing about Islam will achieve? All I get is a be on your guard? Against what exactly? This sweeping horde of Arabs descending upon us with their Sharia law? Should we ban Islam? Should we invade and sort them out? Should we have laws that are only applicable to muslims like none of that Allah stuff in public? All i'm hearing is 'BEWARE' in a comedic scary voice like the stone faces in the oublient in The Labyrinth.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:24 PM   #40
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Maybe. Do you really think in this day and age, there is any other religion that is slaughtering "non-adherents" on the scale of Islam?

this has been answered, but i'd also point to Buddhists killing people in Myanmar/Burma. seems so utterly antithetical to the teachings of the Buddha, but that's how it works i suppose since religion has a unique capacity to justify violence.


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Is it possible there is not as much intellectual and popular opposition to Islam because professors and journalists are afraid of reprisals?
no.

i'm a little surprised at how much you're buying into this Clash of Civilizations thing.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:25 PM   #41
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I'd really like to know what this weeping and wailing about Islam will achieve? All I get is a be on your guard? Against what exactly? This sweeping horde of Arabs descending upon us with their Sharia law? Should we ban Islam? Should we invade and sort them out? Should we have laws that are only applicable to muslims like none of that Allah stuff in public? All i'm hearing is 'BEWARE' in a comedic scary voice like the stone faces in the oublient in The Labyrinth.


apparently Sharia law is waiting to pounce in the north of England and the southern US states the second we turn our backs, so best to strike first, strike hard, no mercy.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:26 PM   #42
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That is true at the highest levels, at least in most cases, but these leaders will certainly use religious ideology to stir up the masses.
That they will, like the Republicans do, like the Unionists often do back home in Belfast (they're like a mini bible belt). Like the Catholic leaders in France, or the Orthodox in Russia who were used quite well against Pussy Riot and in the current anti-gay legislation.

I'm of the opinion if we tried to create a fairer world which we really aren't interested in at the highest levels, you wouldn't get this violent appeal to religion quite so much.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:05 PM   #43
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That WAS the point
Wouldn't you have respected an article where the point was information rather than a vendetta against other media?
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True, but how many Christian/Buddhist/Jewish theocracies exist in the world today? There are several such Islamic states and another handful that are not exactly there, but are close to it.
And here's one reason why all those "professors and journalists" aren't reporting it through YOUR filter, the theocracy is the problem, not so much the religion itself.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:05 PM   #44
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I'm of the opinion if we tried to create a fairer world which we really aren't interested in at the highest levels, you wouldn't get this violent appeal to religion quite so much.
I agree with you here. At least - I would like to think you're right.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #45
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the theocracy is the problem, not so much the religion itself.
In Islam - they are one and the same.
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