Democratic National Convention Thread
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MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
Uh, no.
Good Lord...
Hey, as of last week, I officially only have 1 year to go before I can openly share a beer with you guys.
However, I hate beer, so make mine a cosmo.
Uh, no.
Good Lord...
LOL, I just had lunch with a friend and we realized it's been 10 years. Yowza, where does the time go?
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Hey, as of last week, I officially only have 1 year to go before I can openly share a beer with you guys.
How do you know you hate beer, since you're not old enough to drink it yet?
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
How do you know you hate beer, since you're not old enough to drink it yet?
I've actually never had beer, but I hate the smell. I don't think I'd like it. Now margaritas, on the other hand....
We've gotten way OT in here.
If we get in trouble, you can all blame me.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
Bill Clinton is the Democrats biggest asset.
The Obama people should be making nice with him if they want to improve their chances in the November election.
yolland
Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 7,471
Obama, Bill Clinton Remain Distant
Despite Similar Stories, a Complex Relationship
By David Maraniss
Washington Post, August 27
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama--in so many ways two sides of the same coin. Old heat and new cool, two guys who came out of nowhere, bereft of early connections, overcoming the odds. Each raised by a single mother and grandparents, in blended families featuring a variety of half siblings, with lost and distant fathers and stepfathers and no strong male role models. Both drawing on uncommon will, Ivy League legal training, mental agility, innate adaptability and the symbolism of hope to reach the heights of American politics.
"They are very similar in their strengths and weaknesses," noted Rahm Emanuel, chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, who views the two men from a unique perspective as a congressman from Obama's home town, Chicago, and a former White House aide to Clinton. Take away the context of this campaign year, and they could be pals, perhaps even big and little brothers of the Democratic family--the so-called first black president mentors a prospective real black president. But context is everything in politics, and because of that their relationship is anything but close.
When the former president takes the convention stage tonight on the eve of Obama's historic nomination, seizing however briefly the undivided attention of his party and the nation, he intends to do what is expected of him, according to many friends and associates, and try to convince the public that Obama has the toughness and wisdom to be commander in chief. But though the speech might be as important to Clinton as it is to Obama, those close to him say he will deliver it with lingering feelings of estrangement that have surprisingly little to do with the fact that Obama defeated his wife in the primaries.
"Obama does not like Clinton, and Clinton knows it," asserted one longtime Clinton adviser, a refrain that several compatriots repeated almost word for word, though occasionally in stronger terms.
Whether the reverse is true, and whether it matters as much, are less clear. Clinton associates say he was embittered earlier this summer but appears to have moved past that. They noticed a change at a dinner in Las Vegas on Aug. 19 celebrating his 62nd birthday, where, as one friend put it, "he was very matter-of-fact about it all." It appears obvious to people on both sides that Obama and Clinton are acute political animals who could bridge the divide if it became mutually beneficial for their long-term prospects. But Clinton and his friends are uncertain that Obama sees the necessity yet.
There is a history to all this, going back to the time when Clinton urged voters not to buy into the "fairy tale" of Obama's rise, but the latest expression of unease surfaced this week in connection with the subject of Clinton's speech. Several of his associates complained, though not for attribution, that it is a misuse of his skills and policy achievements to have him speak on national security instead of the national economy, which boomed during the eight years of his presidency. One old Clinton hand said he broached the subject with a senior Obama aide--arguing that no one could better deliver a new variation of the golden-oldie 1992 theme, it's the economy, stupid--only to be dismissed vociferously with the exasperated phrase, "That's so typical Clinton!"
Eager to maintain the image of unity in Denver, officials in the Obama camp have tried to tamp down intimations of disarray beyond the long-running rebellion of many Hillary Rodham Clinton supporters. They stress that Obama and the senator from New York get along well on a personal level and are comfortably familiar with one another after 16 months as combatants on the campaign trail. But the senator's husband presents a more complex dynamic. Even though he once commented that he thought he "understood" Obama, the former president and the would-be one are as unfamiliar with one another as they are alike. "I think they don't know each other well," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said when asked about the relationship. But, he insisted, "Senator Obama does seek out Bill Clinton's counsel." As evidence, Obama aides point to a telephone conversation between the two men that took place last Thursday, and was said to last 30 minutes and cover a "broad range" of topics involving the campaign and the country. Last night, Obama called Clinton again, according to Burton, praising his wife's speech and thanking the Clintons for their support. Burton said he told Clinton he must have been as proud watching her as he had been watching Michelle Obama address the convention the night before.
Clinton associates, long familiar with his habits and rhythms, say it would take little more than phone calls on a somewhat regular basis to keep him satisfied. Attention has always been Clinton's lifeblood. "We all know that he wants to be loved. Just call him. Call him any time of day or night," said one associate. "Talk to him about anything. Talk to him about the Olympics or what he thinks about a certain congressional district or even about the New York Times Sunday crossword puzzle. Obama could even put the phone in a drawer and just let President Clinton talk away. It wouldn't take much. It could be so easy." But beneath the superficial question of whether Obama talks to Clinton enough, or pays sufficient homage to him, rest deeper issues that go further in explaining their complicated relationship. These have to do with race and the legacy of the 1960s.
Throughout his life, as a son of the New South, Clinton took outsize pride in his attitudes and actions on race. As a young delegate to the Boys Nation convention in Washington in 1963--the summer of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s iconic "I Have a Dream" speech, whose 45th anniversary is being celebrated at the Democratic convention this week--Clinton was one of the few Southern delegates to support a civil rights plank. At Yale Law School, he was the lone white student to sit at what was called the black table. As a young professor at the University of Arkansas, he became a mentor to the first wave of African American law students. During his rise to the presidency and while in the White House, he seemed preternaturally at ease in black churches, speaking the language of struggle and hope, and he looked to the black community as the foundation of his political support in good times and his salvation when he was in trouble.
So it came as a bitter irony this year that Clinton seemed to lose his footing on issues of race during his wife's presidential primary campaign. The rise of a black candidate discombobulated Bill Clinton, particularly in South Carolina when he was accused of dismissing Obama by likening his victory there to Jesse L. Jackson's in 1984 and 1988. Taylor Branch, a noted historian on racial politics, King biographer and longtime Clinton friend, who is writing a book detailing his private White House interviews with Clinton, said the former president was distraught by the popular interpretation that he had used code language to diminish Obama. "He was particularly upset about the race card deal," Branch recalled. "He said, 'I hate that phrase anyway. It makes it sound like a game--playing a card--when race is not a game and never was. It is deadly serious.' " There is, from Branch's historical perspective, a natural progression from Clinton to Obama that in other circumstances could have created a political bond. Had Hillary not been in the race, he surmised, "I could see that Clinton might have endorsed him. Obama has a lot of attributes he values."
On the other hand, there also is a sensitive generational issue that further explains the distance between them. For more than 40 years, the country has been riven by a wide and amorphous range of issues and sensibilities that came out of the divisions of the 1960s. Clinton tried to overcome that divide with his notions of a "New Democrat" and a "third way" of looking at policies beyond the classic left and right, but he failed, in part because of the Monica S. Lewinsky sex scandal, which reinforced the stereotype of '60s undiscipline. The Obama campaign wants no part of those old '60s aggrandizements. As spokesman Burton put it, "We're trying to fight a new fight."
Among the many parallels between Clinton and Obama is that they both first took the national stage with a convention speech four years before they won the nomination--Clinton in Atlanta in 1988, and Obama four years ago in Boston. But while Obama received rave reviews for his keynote address, propelling him to where he stands today, Clinton bombed out with a speech that droned on and on until he received his loudest ovation for the words "and in closing." He blamed aides to nominee Michael Dukakis for junking up his speech and minimizing its importance by keeping the house lights on.
If there is to be a rapprochement between these two similar men, it more likely will come after the convention. Each has one powerful way that he needs the other. Obama could use Clinton to talk to rural and white working-class people; as one Clinton hand said, "One difference between the two guys is that Obama never had an Uncle Buddy who lived in a trailer." Clinton had a photograph of his Uncle Henry Oren "Buddy" Grisham, the quintessential good ol' boy, on his desk in the Oval Office. And Clinton just as much could use Obama to expiate his falling-out with the African American community.
Did they talk about this in their conversation last Thursday? No one on either side has revealed the contents of that discussion, but one source said it was "on the right track" to consider the possibility of consecutive joint appearances at a black church and a union hall in Ohio or Pennsylvania--not quite brotherhood, but two pragmatic and adaptable politicians closing the circle on their discontent.
Despite Similar Stories, a Complex Relationship
By David Maraniss
Washington Post, August 27
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama--in so many ways two sides of the same coin. Old heat and new cool, two guys who came out of nowhere, bereft of early connections, overcoming the odds. Each raised by a single mother and grandparents, in blended families featuring a variety of half siblings, with lost and distant fathers and stepfathers and no strong male role models. Both drawing on uncommon will, Ivy League legal training, mental agility, innate adaptability and the symbolism of hope to reach the heights of American politics.
"They are very similar in their strengths and weaknesses," noted Rahm Emanuel, chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, who views the two men from a unique perspective as a congressman from Obama's home town, Chicago, and a former White House aide to Clinton. Take away the context of this campaign year, and they could be pals, perhaps even big and little brothers of the Democratic family--the so-called first black president mentors a prospective real black president. But context is everything in politics, and because of that their relationship is anything but close.
When the former president takes the convention stage tonight on the eve of Obama's historic nomination, seizing however briefly the undivided attention of his party and the nation, he intends to do what is expected of him, according to many friends and associates, and try to convince the public that Obama has the toughness and wisdom to be commander in chief. But though the speech might be as important to Clinton as it is to Obama, those close to him say he will deliver it with lingering feelings of estrangement that have surprisingly little to do with the fact that Obama defeated his wife in the primaries.
"Obama does not like Clinton, and Clinton knows it," asserted one longtime Clinton adviser, a refrain that several compatriots repeated almost word for word, though occasionally in stronger terms.
Whether the reverse is true, and whether it matters as much, are less clear. Clinton associates say he was embittered earlier this summer but appears to have moved past that. They noticed a change at a dinner in Las Vegas on Aug. 19 celebrating his 62nd birthday, where, as one friend put it, "he was very matter-of-fact about it all." It appears obvious to people on both sides that Obama and Clinton are acute political animals who could bridge the divide if it became mutually beneficial for their long-term prospects. But Clinton and his friends are uncertain that Obama sees the necessity yet.
There is a history to all this, going back to the time when Clinton urged voters not to buy into the "fairy tale" of Obama's rise, but the latest expression of unease surfaced this week in connection with the subject of Clinton's speech. Several of his associates complained, though not for attribution, that it is a misuse of his skills and policy achievements to have him speak on national security instead of the national economy, which boomed during the eight years of his presidency. One old Clinton hand said he broached the subject with a senior Obama aide--arguing that no one could better deliver a new variation of the golden-oldie 1992 theme, it's the economy, stupid--only to be dismissed vociferously with the exasperated phrase, "That's so typical Clinton!"
Eager to maintain the image of unity in Denver, officials in the Obama camp have tried to tamp down intimations of disarray beyond the long-running rebellion of many Hillary Rodham Clinton supporters. They stress that Obama and the senator from New York get along well on a personal level and are comfortably familiar with one another after 16 months as combatants on the campaign trail. But the senator's husband presents a more complex dynamic. Even though he once commented that he thought he "understood" Obama, the former president and the would-be one are as unfamiliar with one another as they are alike. "I think they don't know each other well," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said when asked about the relationship. But, he insisted, "Senator Obama does seek out Bill Clinton's counsel." As evidence, Obama aides point to a telephone conversation between the two men that took place last Thursday, and was said to last 30 minutes and cover a "broad range" of topics involving the campaign and the country. Last night, Obama called Clinton again, according to Burton, praising his wife's speech and thanking the Clintons for their support. Burton said he told Clinton he must have been as proud watching her as he had been watching Michelle Obama address the convention the night before.
Clinton associates, long familiar with his habits and rhythms, say it would take little more than phone calls on a somewhat regular basis to keep him satisfied. Attention has always been Clinton's lifeblood. "We all know that he wants to be loved. Just call him. Call him any time of day or night," said one associate. "Talk to him about anything. Talk to him about the Olympics or what he thinks about a certain congressional district or even about the New York Times Sunday crossword puzzle. Obama could even put the phone in a drawer and just let President Clinton talk away. It wouldn't take much. It could be so easy." But beneath the superficial question of whether Obama talks to Clinton enough, or pays sufficient homage to him, rest deeper issues that go further in explaining their complicated relationship. These have to do with race and the legacy of the 1960s.
Throughout his life, as a son of the New South, Clinton took outsize pride in his attitudes and actions on race. As a young delegate to the Boys Nation convention in Washington in 1963--the summer of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s iconic "I Have a Dream" speech, whose 45th anniversary is being celebrated at the Democratic convention this week--Clinton was one of the few Southern delegates to support a civil rights plank. At Yale Law School, he was the lone white student to sit at what was called the black table. As a young professor at the University of Arkansas, he became a mentor to the first wave of African American law students. During his rise to the presidency and while in the White House, he seemed preternaturally at ease in black churches, speaking the language of struggle and hope, and he looked to the black community as the foundation of his political support in good times and his salvation when he was in trouble.
So it came as a bitter irony this year that Clinton seemed to lose his footing on issues of race during his wife's presidential primary campaign. The rise of a black candidate discombobulated Bill Clinton, particularly in South Carolina when he was accused of dismissing Obama by likening his victory there to Jesse L. Jackson's in 1984 and 1988. Taylor Branch, a noted historian on racial politics, King biographer and longtime Clinton friend, who is writing a book detailing his private White House interviews with Clinton, said the former president was distraught by the popular interpretation that he had used code language to diminish Obama. "He was particularly upset about the race card deal," Branch recalled. "He said, 'I hate that phrase anyway. It makes it sound like a game--playing a card--when race is not a game and never was. It is deadly serious.' " There is, from Branch's historical perspective, a natural progression from Clinton to Obama that in other circumstances could have created a political bond. Had Hillary not been in the race, he surmised, "I could see that Clinton might have endorsed him. Obama has a lot of attributes he values."
On the other hand, there also is a sensitive generational issue that further explains the distance between them. For more than 40 years, the country has been riven by a wide and amorphous range of issues and sensibilities that came out of the divisions of the 1960s. Clinton tried to overcome that divide with his notions of a "New Democrat" and a "third way" of looking at policies beyond the classic left and right, but he failed, in part because of the Monica S. Lewinsky sex scandal, which reinforced the stereotype of '60s undiscipline. The Obama campaign wants no part of those old '60s aggrandizements. As spokesman Burton put it, "We're trying to fight a new fight."
Among the many parallels between Clinton and Obama is that they both first took the national stage with a convention speech four years before they won the nomination--Clinton in Atlanta in 1988, and Obama four years ago in Boston. But while Obama received rave reviews for his keynote address, propelling him to where he stands today, Clinton bombed out with a speech that droned on and on until he received his loudest ovation for the words "and in closing." He blamed aides to nominee Michael Dukakis for junking up his speech and minimizing its importance by keeping the house lights on.
If there is to be a rapprochement between these two similar men, it more likely will come after the convention. Each has one powerful way that he needs the other. Obama could use Clinton to talk to rural and white working-class people; as one Clinton hand said, "One difference between the two guys is that Obama never had an Uncle Buddy who lived in a trailer." Clinton had a photograph of his Uncle Henry Oren "Buddy" Grisham, the quintessential good ol' boy, on his desk in the Oval Office. And Clinton just as much could use Obama to expiate his falling-out with the African American community.
Did they talk about this in their conversation last Thursday? No one on either side has revealed the contents of that discussion, but one source said it was "on the right track" to consider the possibility of consecutive joint appearances at a black church and a union hall in Ohio or Pennsylvania--not quite brotherhood, but two pragmatic and adaptable politicians closing the circle on their discontent.
OP
OP
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Hey John McCain can use columns-he's a POW.
HPo
The McCain campaign is ecstatic over this report from Reuters: "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's big speech on Thursday night will be delivered from an elaborate columned stage resembling a miniature Greek temple."
By noon, three emails mocking Obama over the columns had been blasted out by the Republican National Committee, with more sure to come.
The Obama campaign is mostly silent on the issue, eager not to spoil any surprises for Thursday night. But one convention official said that the columns are meant to reference Washington DC, not ancient Greece, a fact that will become clear as the program unfolds in the lead up to Obama's speech.
In the meantime, ThinkProgress has posted photos from the 2008 Virginia Republican Convention, which also used columns as a backdrop.
Think Progress ? 2008 Virginia Republican Convention Featured Stage With Greek Columns
And HuffPost blogger Bob Cesca has an impressive collection of photos of John McCain posing in front of columns.
Bob Cesca's Goddamn Awesome Blog! Go!: Presumptuous Greek God McBush
HPo
The McCain campaign is ecstatic over this report from Reuters: "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's big speech on Thursday night will be delivered from an elaborate columned stage resembling a miniature Greek temple."
By noon, three emails mocking Obama over the columns had been blasted out by the Republican National Committee, with more sure to come.
The Obama campaign is mostly silent on the issue, eager not to spoil any surprises for Thursday night. But one convention official said that the columns are meant to reference Washington DC, not ancient Greece, a fact that will become clear as the program unfolds in the lead up to Obama's speech.
In the meantime, ThinkProgress has posted photos from the 2008 Virginia Republican Convention, which also used columns as a backdrop.
Think Progress ? 2008 Virginia Republican Convention Featured Stage With Greek Columns
And HuffPost blogger Bob Cesca has an impressive collection of photos of John McCain posing in front of columns.
Bob Cesca's Goddamn Awesome Blog! Go!: Presumptuous Greek God McBush
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
The Obama campaign has been nothing but generous and respectful to the Clintons during this entire convention process. They've given them keynote speaking times, they agreed without protest to Hillary's name being placed in nomination, both Barack and Michelle have stated how much they respect the Clintons, what more can they do? I wish people would quit acting like Hillary and Bill are some poor, weak worms of the dust who got run over by some "new guy". Along with the Kennedys, they're the royalty of the Democratic party. The primaries are elections, only one person can win. Barack Obama was that person. He ran a better, smarter campaign and got more votes/delegates according to the rules of the DNC. It's time to move on, and paraphrasing Tom Brokaw from last night, quit acting like junior high kids who are upset that their friend lost the student council election.
OP
OP
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
They already made nice with him, very nice considering some of what went on in the campaign. Kissing Bill Clinton's butt is not a prerequisite for being elected President-he should stop thinking that it is if he does. Obama did run a much better campaign, there's no way they can realistically deny that. Yes there was media bias, yes there was some sexism, yes there were other issues. But still, it was a better campaign that won out.
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
I thought it was a great speech last night by Hillary. Hopefully her supporters got the message.
this whole role call thing is a whole lotta sad. do we really need to hear the lifelong accomplishments of Idaho? just say "potatoes!" and we'll get the point.
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
It always is unless it's actually close, on both sides.
This time around it's an attempt to say "Whee look at us uniting!" Really only makes a difference to uber-political junkies like meself.
This time around it's an attempt to say "Whee look at us uniting!" Really only makes a difference to uber-political junkies like meself.
i think the same guy who wrote Iowa's speech writes for MTV's Next.
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
I'm the biggest political dork I know, and it's too boring even for me.
What do I lose?
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
honestly... who was the genius who let a guy with a lisp talk for minnethota? well done 
yolland
Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 7,471
love train? really?
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
Call me corny but I have the warm fuzzies We officially have the first African-American nominee for POTUS.
We officially have the first African-American nominee for POTUS.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
I think it is great.
This can never be taken away.
Should he not win in November,
this nomination will still prove that the country has come a long ways.
This can never be taken away.
Should he not win in November,
this nomination will still prove that the country has come a long ways.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
I am a bit concerned
Has He Lost His Mind?
“Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's big speech on Thursday night will be delivered from an elaborate columned stage resembling a miniature Greek temple.
The stage, similar to structures used for rock concerts, has been set up at the 50-yard-line, the midpoint of Invesco Field, the stadium where the Denver Broncos' National Football League team plays.
Some 80,000 supporters will see Obama appear from between plywood columns painted off-white, reminiscent of Washington's Capitol building or even the White House, to accept the party's nomination for president.
He will stride out to a raised platform to a podium that can be raised from beneath the floor.”
The show should provide a striking image for the millions of Americans watching on television as Obama delivers a speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination.
Politicians in past elections have typically spoken from the convention site itself, but the Obama campaign liked the idea of having their man speak to a larger, stadium-sized crowd not far from where the Democratic National Convention is being held, at the Denver pro basketball arena.
Obama was taking a page from the campaign book of John Kennedy in 1960 when the future president delivered his acceptance speech to 80,000 people in the Los Angeles Coliseum.
Once Obama speaks, confetti will rain down on him and fireworks will be fired off from locations around the stadium wall.
Democratic convention organizers said the theme for the evening is "Change We Can Believe In," which has been a consistent message of Obama's presidential campaign.
Oscar-winning actress and singer Jennifer Hudson will sing the national anthem that night.
-- Reuters, Aug. 26, 2008
Jacques-Louis David, Napoleon Crowning Himself Emperor Before the Pope, 1805. (Louvre)
The Berlin folly -- in English.
The Superbowl Halftime Show -- without the game.
What's the finish? Maybe Obama’s got Zhang Yimou to do the hidden-rope trick, and have him lifted, Beijing-style, to the heavens when he’s done. Will he reappear three days later at the Bird’s Nest?
Or maybe he'll just do a Napoleon and coronate himself. By the time Napoleon made himself emperor, he had won the Battles of Lodi, of Arcole, of Rivoli, of the Pyramids and of Marengo. And had promugulated the Napoleonic Code. He had yet to write a single autobiography.
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