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Old 06-27-2016, 08:12 PM   #286
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All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:41 PM   #287
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A 51-47 win with a 55% voter turnout is not legit win?
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:54 PM   #288
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A 51-47 win with a 55% voter turnout is not legit win?

Interesting math.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:00 PM   #289
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I wasn't aware that the referendum isn't binding - that puts an interesting spin on all this. I would hope that Parliament, if they are the ones to make the final call, lets things settle down a little bit before deciding whether to stay or leave. Acting in the midst of the immediate economic aftershock, when things are bound to look especially bad, would probably not be wise.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:22 PM   #290
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Interesting math.
The numbers are real.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:29 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?
The TPP
Isn't that dead. Hillary now says she is against it and so has Trump.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:35 PM   #292
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The numbers are real.

Are you referring to the Brexit? The referendum? With two choices? That had a 72% turnout?

I'm a bit lost.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:40 PM   #293
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that was a trap! a trap!

Correct that was 72% turnout
and 52-48 and people are saying it really should not count.

not enough of a win margin and not everybody voted


the numbers I posted are the 2012 Presidential election, should that have been a do over, because of the low turn out or small margin?
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:45 PM   #294
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I don't believe people in England did not know what they were voting for,
this election was huge news 24/7 for weeks. As for the claims, they were exaggerated on both sides, that is what happens in politics. The leave vote was mostly driven by sovereignty. I am very skeptical of all these people saying they voted 'leave' but didn't really want it. Seems like something a sore loser that voted 'remain' could easily make up to try discredit the leave win.
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Old 06-27-2016, 11:52 PM   #295
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I'm mildly agreeing with deep here...

I don't think "regrexit" is a real thing. Just some bull shit the media made up to piss you off. Interview a few folks who say they regret it and paint this picture of how suddenly a new vote must be done (as though no conditions would change except for regretful voters switching sides).
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Old 06-28-2016, 12:42 AM   #296
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Old 06-28-2016, 01:38 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.
I agree, all the referendum has managed to achieve is to divide the voters in the UK, divide the countries within the UK, cause immense political instability and bring forward blatant racism.
Politicians should have taken their responsibility and decided the best way forward based on their best insights not by playing a game of 'who plays with the emotions of the electorate best'.


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I don't believe people in England did not know what they were voting for,
this election was huge news 24/7 for weeks. As for the claims, they were exaggerated on both sides, that is what happens in politics.
Well, to be honest, only one side exaggerated their claims - camp Stay.

Camp Leave followed the Donald Trump handbook of politics by telling lies and cover them up with more lies (preferably within a catchphrase) and add a smidgen of xenophobia.
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:02 AM   #298
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Yeah but where do you draw the line? Is 5% enough? 10%? If you have a majority vote, then that's what it is. Otherwise we can just get rid of refendums all together



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in Britain, referenda are not normally binding - sovereignty lies with parliament
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:02 AM   #299
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So if Trump wins, we're also going to ignore the election result? And demand a new election where nobody is allowed to lie?


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it depends on the constitution - in Britain there isn't a written constitution - we're an usual case apparently LOL
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Old 06-28-2016, 05:06 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
All this underscores the superiority of representational democracy.

Your average citizen is not -- nor should be expected to be -- informed enough to cast a meaningful vote on complex policy. We have legislatures for a reason, courts for a reason. Our vote gives us a stake in the system, and a tool to use to enforce accountability and responsibility in our representatives.

Could you imagine putting the TPP up for a popular vote?
Irvine, you're always the voice of reason round here
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