The one change I would have made to make this the most complete U2 album I've heard.

[PowerSurge]

Maybe if they had put Wild Honey in there then it would have made the middle of the album complete.

Seriously though, I find all of the differing views people have of the middle part very interesting and thought provoking. I myself still can't decide whether or not it is palatable yet. I agree its a tad weak, but who knows. I used to think the last 3-4 songs on Achtung Baby were weak, but then I wised up.

But all of this talk about Mercy is making me sick. Can we drop that idea already? I mean, c'mon...isn't it obvious by now that the song just won't work on any of their albums. I mean its 0-2 now. Do we really need to belabor the whole argument any further? Its just not gonna happen. Let's wait till the next album to see it be left off AGAIN. Its an OKAY song at best that just isn't album worthy. Maybe when U2 decide to put out their last "Best of" they'll humor the Mercy lovers and toss it out there or something, but to keep bringing it up incessantly as a fix all for every album's problems is just borderline ridiculous. I'm sure there are plenty of songs that we've never heard them release from the last few album sessions that they are holding onto that would blow Mercy away. Maybe THOSE songs will see the light of day.

Just a thought.

 

[VintagePunk]

Who else but people who are really into music would have debates about tracklistings and album cohesion? Do you really think the average Joe out there gives a shit or even notices? No, it's just the people whom, for them, music is more than just a hobby or entertainment, it's what defines life for them. Also, a lot of musicians were formerly Burger flippers and students before getting their big breaks. What do you think, that Bono was always a singer? Don't you think at some point Edge might've moonlighted as a clerk/burger flipper/or whatever b.s. position he might have held to pay for things, such as his guitar? Come on, these guys are just like you and me. They aren't Gods. They once flipped burgers. If people want to argue over what makes an album sound great or more cohesive, all i gotta say is Thank God there's people who are out there that actually think about the music they're listening to. Maybe you'd like to live in a utopian world where everyone thinks everything is great, and then who would challenge our favorite artists?

No, I don't think any of what you said. But I also don't think that Bono or Edge would walk out of their job "flipping burgers" and directly into the studio, and not defer to producers of the magnitude of Eno and Lanois, either. You're making some awfully big leaps here - U2 aren't a new band, they have a lot of years under their belt. I'm just saying that if someone thinks that their "version" of the album is a radical improvement of the one made by the current U2 and Lanois and Eno, with their years of proven experience and expertise, they're more than likely sadly mistaken.

 

[ShipOfFools]

Why remove one of the best songs on the album? If anything, I'd kick off Boots, that's the dead horse if anything is.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

We get a final tracklist that has undergone much internal debate and compromise, from a band of music fans who you can be sure sit around and talk shit about the pro's and con's of other artists/albums/songs in much the same way we do here. It's no big deal. One of the alternate tracklists that gets put up in here might very well be bang on with what, say, Bono would have far preferred anyway. I mean, we already know that Eno is bummed about a few of the songs that were left off or dropped along the way.

 

[TonyH]

Can we stop all of this Mercy talk. In my opinion the song isn't very good; hence it's never been put on a U2 album! I think Stand Up Comedy is vastly superior!

 

[corianderstem]

Can we stop all of this Mercy talk.

You'll find that the Mercy talk never really goes away.

Welcome to Interference!

 

[LPU2]

You echo my own sentiments.

And in answer to Salome, I have to trust my own educated yet very subjective judgements. And I think Stand Up Comedy is unredeemable. A bad song that I don't like, as opposed to a bad song I do like or a good song that I don't. I wish to think that I can see the grey in between the black and the white sometimes, and this is my opinion as a result.

Soul rockin’ people moving on
Soul rockin’ people on and on
C’mon ye people
We’re made of stars
C’mon ye people
Stand up then sit down for your love

Honestly. The most terrifying lyrics I've ever heard as a U2 fan. It reads like a Jesus Jones song.

...or a John Lennon one: "And we all shine on / Like the moon and the stars and the sun / Yeah, we all shine on/ On and on and on, on and on"

Try to remember this is rock and roll.

 

[BGD75]

I love Stand Up Comedy....and quite honestly I never got the whole Mercy thing...its an okay song...really don't think it's that great. *shrugs*

My thoughts exactly... I was starting to think I was alone on this one. Lots of people seem to hate SUC, and feel love for Crazy ... My feelings are more the other way around! As for Mercy.... don't know... found it to be OK but it never won over me so much that I would want to at it to this album...

 

[popshopper]

No, I don't think any of what you said. But I also don't think that Bono or Edge would walk out of their job "flipping burgers" and directly into the studio, and not defer to producers of the magnitude of Eno and Lanois, either. You're making some awfully big leaps here - U2 aren't a new band, they have a lot of years under their belt. I'm just saying that if someone thinks that their "version" of the album is a radical improvement of the one made by the current U2 and Lanois and Eno, with their years of proven experience and expertise, they're more than likely sadly mistaken.

You have 6 people making decisions, so it's a process of compromise. And for the record, the Edge has admitted in the past that they've made mistakes and haven't been great in sequencing some of their albums. If you read a lot of the 'professional' reviews they comment on the middle section quite often.

This is the band which put a Trip through your wires on Joshua Tree in place of 1. Spanish Eyes 2. Beautiful Ghost 3. Walk to the Water 4. Sweetest Thing 5. Wave of Sorrow.

 

[Salome]

I'm all for people putting together their own preferred version of an album
by all means, go ahead
start a thread on it too with why your version is the best
I might not read it, but if it makes you feel better then go for it
but don't expect much sympathy from me when you make out that people must be idiots for thinking the album is fine as it is

 

[Scrumps]

For the love of fuck did people not read that I am using Mercy as a substitute? I can't replace Stand Up Comedy with an imaginary song! So Mercy is a surrogate for what I would feel is a more cohesive and flowing album.

Thanks to the people who have contributed to the thread & discussed the merits of listening to good music subjectively, be it whether they agree with my sentiments or not.

Fuck right off the mindless people who have implied anyone other than U2/Eno/Lanois have no right to an opinion or a debate about ART!!! If we can't discuss that, what the hell can we discuss?

Saying that I or anyone else is wrong because we don't like SUC and you do is as bad as me coming into your threads and saying your ideas and speculations are without merit.

Lets all agree on everything, what a load of fun that would be.

 

[Scrumps]

but don't expect much sympathy from me when you make out that people must be idiots for thinking the album is fine as it is

I'm delighted for anyone who enjoys the album as it is! Absolutely made up! I would love to feel that way. But I don't, so don't diminish my right to feel that way and talk about it. You disagree with my view on the album? Thats fine! But either offer an articulate response as to why you feel that way, or don't respond at all.

To come in and basically say 'you don't like it, tough shit because I do' is tremendously offensive.

 

[stray dog]

I love the middle of the album...can't be depressed all the time

 

[edgeplaytheblue]

while stand up is better for me now that i know he means stand up for god, its still a really weak song. suc sucks

as does uc

uc and suc both suck

objection!! UC is one of the album stand-outs. SUC is great too by the way.

 

[IndyShade]

Who else but people who are really into music would have debates about tracklistings and album cohesion? Do you really think the average Joe out there gives a shit or even notices? No, it's just the people whom, for them, music is more than just a hobby or entertainment, it's what defines life for them. Also, a lot of musicians were formerly Burger flippers and students before getting their big breaks. What do you think, that Bono was always a singer? Don't you think at some point Edge might've moonlighted as a clerk/burger flipper/or whatever b.s. position he might have held to pay for things, such as his guitar? Come on, these guys are just like you and me. They aren't Gods. They once flipped burgers. If people want to argue over what makes an album sound great or more cohesive, all i gotta say is Thank God there's people who are out there that actually think about the music they're listening to. Maybe you'd like to live in a utopian world where everyone thinks everything is great, and then who would challenge our favorite artists?

I agree 100%. The argument that somebody who has no studio recording experience is somehow disqualified from holding an opinion on the work of a successful band or their producers is ridiculous. People who love music and listen to albums rather than singles are pretty good judges of the cohesiveness of the production and the flow. Moreover, they have an objectivity that the creators do not have. The fact that listeners skip songs, even on an album they otherwise love, is a testament to the ability of not just the fan, but the average listener to discern what sounds good to them. Disqualifying their opinions is no different from saying that a fan can't be positive about an album just because they've never recorded one.

And I'd like to add that the band themselves have stated that they feel they've messed up October and POP - and that they are not entirely happy with songs even on albums as great as The Joshua Tree. I seem to remember Edge and Bono knocking In God's Country in the U2xU2 book. That was the song that turned me into a super-fan! In fact, in that book, they bag on a lot of their own material. Edge's comments made it seem like he wasn't even that thrilled with HTDAAB. All of this opens the door to potential fallibility with anything that they do, and the fans, as both listeners and consumers who have purchased a product that they have a sincere interest in, have every right to either agree or disagree with the band's handling of those projects, regardless of any studio experience or lack thereof.

The recording sessions of U2's albums have historically been complete clusterfucks, and it sounds like this one was no different - right down to juggling multiple versions of the same song mere days before its ultimate inclusion on the album. (Didn't they change ATYCLB's track listing right at the last minute, too?) Then they'll put out rejiggered single versions, or hits album "remixes", after the material has been road-tested and possibly evolved into something different from the initial recordings, which you can only assume the band view as failures. And by their own admission, there is never really a solid plan when they head into the studio - which everyday recording musicians and producers who don't have the money or access of a band like U2 would NEVER, EVER do. So it's difficult to make the argument that these guys always know what's best for their own albums.

By the way, I might be mistaken, but hasn't Lanois himself been critical of ATYCLB in recent years? And, wouldn't we all agree that Eno was dead wrong about Stuck In A Moment being the greatest thing U2 ever did? This is the same guy who produced With or Without You. Wouldn't we all agree that Stuck is no WOWY? And Eno hates WTSHNN! It's all subjective, even to the deeply and understandably biased people who make these things.

 

[U2girl]

Stuck In A Moment being the greatest thing U2 ever did - actually he said it would be U2's biggest hit in US.

 

[Salome]

I'm delighted for anyone who enjoys the album as it is! Absolutely made up! I would love to feel that way. But I don't, so don't diminish my right to feel that way and talk about it. You disagree with my view on the album? Thats fine! But either offer an articulate response as to why you feel that way, or don't respond at all.

To come in and basically say 'you don't like it, tough shit because I do' is tremendously offensive.

actually, i liked your initial post
it presented your opinion well
some of the ramblings of people who then felt they had to contribute ..... not so much

my apologies anyway

 

[what a bomb!]

i only listen to

1. Magnificent
2. Moment of Surrender

dont know if i will buy the album if i will only listen to 2 or three songs.

Poor fool, he is missing out big time!

 

[mikal]

Poor fool, he is missing out big time!

yeah, even though no one expected him to like the album, it's foolish of him to not like Unknown Caller or Fez-Being Born.

 

[mikal]

you know, one thing i've been wondering about the mixed reception over tracks 5-7 is if these 3 tracks are victims of the rest of the album's success. i mean, when you think about it, songs 5-7 could easily have been stronger than most of the songs on HTDAAB, and they are still good songs. are they epic? no. is that a bad thing? definitely not.

my opinion is that songs 1-4 and 8-11 are absolutely amazing, and better than anything U2 has done this decade. while i don't think songs 5-7 are in the same league as their counterparts, they're not bad songs, and we should be thankful that U2 didn't put 3 weaker songs that are similar to their counterparts just to maintain an ambient theme.

 

[Chief43]

I'd go so far to stand Stand Up Comedy is the most mundane, inane and obvious song I've ever from U2. Terrible lyrics, uninspired production and so-so playing. It's like a bad U2 cover band covering a Led Zepplin track written by Noel Gallagher. It sucks the soul out of the album when partnered with it's prettier throwaway sisters Crazy (which is a nice enough track but feels like an HTDAAB b-side, which Mercy actually isn't as it's still unreleased and could end up anything) and Boots (which actually works somewhat in context, but its effect is muted by being surrounded by SUC and Crazy)

Mercy isn't that great in it's 2004 form, but was interesting enough to see what Eno and Lanois could have done with the guitar part.

U2 chickened out, you could can practically hear the thought-processes of "this album needs another obvious rock track, so lets cram this junk in here" in the opening bars of SUC.

I actually think the idea behind the lyrics is quite interesting. Mercy is simply another analogy on love.

 

[Chief43]

Ok you might think it's taken out of context. I just think that entire bridge is forced and sounds incredibly cheesy. Soul rockin' people? I don't even know what a soul rockin' person is. Or why or where they're moving on to. This part of the song is a spoil for the rest (not that I'm advocating the other parts of it), and it turns it into a marching cry for some false sense of self empowerment that betrays everything I know about U2. U2 motivate and inspire me through beautiful melodies and powerful playing, along with Bono's ability to poetically create a mood. He's gifted at juxtaposing images and using irony to impact on a listener.

In Stand Up Comedy I feel like he's ramming a feel good 'get up and reprezent' message down my throat. Which is fine if thats what he wants to do, but not on this album. It kills the mood for me. Crazy Tonight hints at it without blowing the bubble, but this song is just cookie cutter rock that takes it too far.

The song is about standing up for God. And Bono being the religious person he is and a frontman for a rock band makes him a soul rocking person. I mean if we don't expect there to be Christian type lyrics in U2 songs then we'd be naive.

In saying that you don't have to like it of course but in my opinion I find it rather interesting that a funky 70's song that Stand Up Comedy is in the style, isn't concerned about not discussing the themes of God. Whether we believe or not, Bono does.

 

[Chief43]

you know, one thing i've been wondering about the mixed reception over tracks 5-7 is if these 3 tracks are victims of the rest of the album's success. i mean, when you think about it, songs 5-7 could easily have been stronger than most of the songs on HTDAAB, and they are still good songs. are they epic? no. is that a bad thing? definitely not.

my opinion is that songs 1-4 and 8-11 are absolutely amazing, and better than anything U2 has done this decade. while i don't think songs 5-7 are in the same league as their counterparts, they're not bad songs, and we should be thankful that U2 didn't put 3 weaker songs that are similar to their counterparts just to maintain an ambient theme.

I think making the entire album an ambient piece would have been a bore. It needs as whats been described a half time section. Also it assists in the concept behind the album - my interpretation anyway

 

[mikal]

I think making the entire album an ambient piece would have been a bore. It needs as whats been described a half time section. Also it assists in the concept behind the album - my interpretation anyway

indeed.

now if U2 could have put 3 songs in place of 5-7 that were more ambient and were as great as the rest of the album, then kudos to them. but this is U2, not Radiohead. it's important to U2 to have some stadium anthems on each album. if it weren't for that attitude, they wouldn't be as big as they are today.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

The album definitely needs a lift there, but there’s a hundred shades between ‘ambient’ and ‘pop rock stadium belters’.

 

[mikal]

The album definitely needs a lift there, but there’s a hundred shades between ‘ambient’ and ‘pop rock stadium belters’.

true. i guess what it really comes down to is whether you like the songs or not. i really like songs 5-7, though i have no problem admitting that they aren't as strong as the rest of the album. but in no way does that weaken the whole album in my mind.

 

[hanksta13]

Where the streets have no name is excellent.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

true. i guess what it really comes down to is whether you like the songs or not. i really like songs 5-7, though i have no problem admitting that they aren't as strong as the rest of the album. but in no way does that weaken the whole album in my mind.

Don’t get me wrong, I like them. Well, two of them. Crazy Tonight is the breezy, fun, catchy/commercial pop that they haven’t really pulled off since Beautiful Day. I really, really like Boots as well. Would love it to be a little dirtier, like the live version, but that’s a tiny gripe. SUC, I think is shit, but hey… My point being, they’re great songs in their own right, far better than their Bomb counterparts, and could and probably should have their place on here, it’s just more as a block together, smack in the middle, it’s just too jarring for me. You’re diving off the edge –No! Wait! Time for some fun! – then wooosh we’re back off the edge again.

The album is obviously all about the journey/pilgrimage/life defining and changing moments in time etc. There’s absolutely scope there for running free with something both artistically brilliant and fitting the mood and feel while still giving the album a real lift where it needs it.

Like I said in another thread, if the album went 50% of the way, it wouldn’t bother me. But tracks 1-4 and 8-11 are just that fucking good that it’s just heartbreaking to me that it is just shy of knocking it out of the park and doing the unthinkable – an album right up there with JT and AB – and I can’t get past these middle three tracks being what is just holding it below there. They snap you too far out of it when holding you in there would have been what took it that last leap over the line.

 

[Drowning]

totally off the mercy subject and song order. I would've liked less "ohhs" in the songs and more "hohhs" like the Bono of old. Please no hoe jokes.

 

[shaun vox]

i tried listening to the album again and it just put me to sleep. after the 4th song i could take no more. maby im done with the boring new u2. also bono sounds like a fucking chain-smoker. ewwwww. he will not win any best vocal awards anytime soon.

flame in 1 2 3 ..........