topplehatU2
Refugee
I've never noticed this stuff really before, what does it all mean?
NLOTH Mastering? / Clipping?
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Scorpionac
War Child
Clipping is when music is mixed so that the quiet parts are just as loud as the loud parts, so everything is up front. The loud parts get distorted, and the quiet bits get very loud. As you turn something's volume up, only gets so loud before the individual peaks of noise start leveling off. This forms a 'square' soundwave, which is fatiguing to the ear over time because it doesn't occur in nature. It sounds good at first because it's such an invasive chunk of sound, but it completely obliterates any dynamics (such as hitting a drum or a piano note a bit softer than the rest).
One of the biggest problems with Bomb.
PowerSurge
New Yorker
Are you in a rock band? or work around loud speakers or something? Thats weird that your ears get fatigued so easily. Have you played with the levels of your stereo system? Maybe that could help.
No, I'm not a very loud music listener. This issue has just started cropping up, and I think it might have something to do with the fact that my sinuses are a bit messed up due to somewhat bad allergies around this time of year.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
that happens to me. i've been playing guitar for 20 years though.
It's not only the clipping that is bad.
It's also that over-compressed music (such as HTDAAB), has no dynamics.
So intros with just one sound are as loud as the rest of the song. Middle-eight sections too.
If you listen in Yahweh in the bridge, the band plays softer, but thanks to the compression it sounds just as loud as the chorus. Similarly, the intro to All because of you with just guitar and synth is as loud as the rest of the song.
GOYB is better, you can tell. I still think something like the JT (the remaster is abit louder but still ok) is ideal. AB is more compressed, but it also suits the music.
It looks like NLTOH will be better.
It's also that over-compressed music (such as HTDAAB), has no dynamics.
So intros with just one sound are as loud as the rest of the song. Middle-eight sections too.
If you listen in Yahweh in the bridge, the band plays softer, but thanks to the compression it sounds just as loud as the chorus. Similarly, the intro to All because of you with just guitar and synth is as loud as the rest of the song.
GOYB is better, you can tell. I still think something like the JT (the remaster is abit louder but still ok) is ideal. AB is more compressed, but it also suits the music.
It looks like NLTOH will be better.
chrissybaby
Refugee
That quote by Ludwig is great, it's incredible that producers and musicians go to all the trouble of creating a work of art with nuances, dynamics and intricacies and then the mastering process turns everything into a loudness pissing contest.
Crumbs off HTDAAB was an absolute crime, what really is a beautiful chiming melody from the Edge is just ruined when the drums and bass come in. You can actually hear distortion. How on earth is that satisfactory!!!
For some elements of Rock n Roll clipping and turning everything up to 11 is great. See Oasis (Definitely Maybe) The Who (Live at Leeds), but these albums were designed to be played loud without subtlety! I heard an interesting quote from the producer of Definitely Maybe (Owen Morris?) who said that they pushed everything to maximum volume because they wanted Oasis to be louder than anybody else on the pub jukebox. Brilliant for Oasis, suits their style perfectly. Not quite so for The Edge, maybe.
There was a great debate around the release of Depeche Mode "Playing The Angel", electronic bands sound utterly dreadful when mastered at max volume and that's just what happened to the CD release. Luckily the vinyl was an immense improvement, it was almost like listening to an album of different mixes...
I can only hope that Eno and Lanois will prevent the same thing happening, they afterall love layers and soundscapes, don't they?
I can't think of an equivalent process in any other artform, imagine a beautiful painting full of depth and evocative layers being passed to someone else other than the author, who then decided to maybe outline elements with a neon marker pen in case it passed the average man in the street by...
If you want to find out more then this site is great:
http://www.sharoma.com/trading/loudness.htm
Crumbs off HTDAAB was an absolute crime, what really is a beautiful chiming melody from the Edge is just ruined when the drums and bass come in. You can actually hear distortion. How on earth is that satisfactory!!!
For some elements of Rock n Roll clipping and turning everything up to 11 is great. See Oasis (Definitely Maybe) The Who (Live at Leeds), but these albums were designed to be played loud without subtlety! I heard an interesting quote from the producer of Definitely Maybe (Owen Morris?) who said that they pushed everything to maximum volume because they wanted Oasis to be louder than anybody else on the pub jukebox. Brilliant for Oasis, suits their style perfectly. Not quite so for The Edge, maybe.
There was a great debate around the release of Depeche Mode "Playing The Angel", electronic bands sound utterly dreadful when mastered at max volume and that's just what happened to the CD release. Luckily the vinyl was an immense improvement, it was almost like listening to an album of different mixes...
I can only hope that Eno and Lanois will prevent the same thing happening, they afterall love layers and soundscapes, don't they?
I can't think of an equivalent process in any other artform, imagine a beautiful painting full of depth and evocative layers being passed to someone else other than the author, who then decided to maybe outline elements with a neon marker pen in case it passed the average man in the street by...
If you want to find out more then this site is great:
http://www.sharoma.com/trading/loudness.htm
PowerSurge
New Yorker
I have the same problem. My sinuses feel like an MMA fight is going on in there on a nightly basis. I just play with the levels on my stereo system to make sure I don't fudge up my hearing as a result. I've had to wear ear plugs each time I was in the heart on the Elevation tour or at other concerts where I'm close to the stage because the one time I didn't I thought I was going to go deaf.
Yeah man, protect those ears. So many of my buddies are in bands and don't protect there ears. You should here it when everyone chills afterwards...its like being at an auction but at close range; everyone's screaming back and forth at each other so that they can hear whats being said. Not a good way to live.
quiv
Acrobat
If there was a pre-release leak that is one thing. If you can't come up with a dollar and buy it off of itunes then please start a thread about your destitution and I am sure someone will buy it for you.
Fuck man.
quiv
Acrobat
What the last guy called clipping and you call compression are the same thing. "Compression"
"intros with just one sound are as loud as the rest of the song."
Prefectly stated without the longwinded, bourgeois, ignorance.
quiv
Acrobat
There is a thread full of know it alls where they feel that the reason Arnie Acosta does not master rap albums is because it is rap.
The reason is more obviously because the recordings themselves do not measure up to anything worth remastering. A bunch of thugs with no education and a budget for all the tools equals audio shit.
If mastering was an art form to you, why would you want to remaster what sonically equals a fucking turd?
It has nothing to do with content. It has everything to do with ears.
chrissybaby
Refugee
Bit of a generalisation there. Some rap is fantastic, thought provoking and innovative. Some is senseless garbage. Much like rock, pop, dance, classical etc... Some "genius" knob twiddlers make the most listless music... Some kid(s) with no idea can change the world... See U2 circa 1980.
Don't lump a whole genre together if you can help it...
eeerrrr... no, you are wrong. The two are related but different.
Clipping is when the tops of the soundwave are "cut off".It's heard as distortion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)
Compression is when the volume range is reduced, whether or not the wave is clipped. It's heard as lack of dynamics.
Dynamic range compression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Clipping is a type of compression.
And there is no need to get personal in the comments, man
lancerla
The Fly
So would it be worth picking up the vinyl of NLOTH? Do we not know yet? Did Bomb ever come out on vinyl and was there a difference?
You need headphones to hear a quarter of the sounds in Boots. I'm hoping a record might be different.
You need headphones to hear a quarter of the sounds in Boots. I'm hoping a record might be different.
schnumi
Refugee
Headphones are always a good thing, but a good set of speakers and a good reciever as well.
I got a Yamaha reciever upstairs and a 5.1 set of good large speakers on it and when playing GOYB it sounds fantastic, you hear a lot more details yes. On the regular pc speakers those details fade away.
Popmartijn
Blue Crack Supplier
We do not know yet.
stagman
War Child
FIRSTLY - LOUD is awesome!! well to me it is
SECONDLY - This thread is a moot point when we have not heard it on CD from the album or Single.
SECONDLY - This thread is a moot point when we have not heard it on CD from the album or Single.
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
The problem with LOUD is that when there is clipping you lose detail. Isn't it better to have no clipping and just turn up your volume when you want to? At least when you turn it up you can hear more and get a more natural sound. CD is really shit because our ears can hear better. Listen to a DVD audio in full sound and it's so much better and natural sounding. CD is a compromise.
PowerSurge
New Yorker
totally agree.
I've got a pair of Yamaha floor speakers, a Sony 5.1 receiver, Polk Audio Super Subwoofer (which doesn't have to be jacked up to fill in Adam's rich baselines) and some really crisp back speakers. Makes all the difference in the world.
GOYB sounds much more crisp then any song on HTDAAB so they must have learned their lesson. The depth of the sounds on GOYB already tell me that this next album will be mixed correctly...or atleast I hope.
I will also add that the rhythm section on that songs is great, though they continue to mix Larry's drums way too far in the back. Its too muffled for me, I wish they'd bring it to the forefront a bit more. Adam's bassline sounds f-ing amazing (thanks to my sub woofer) but Larry's drums need to be turned up and made less fuzzy IMO.
All in all a great single.
toscano
Refugee
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 2,032
Yes and no.
Some fans took the non-clipping and overdriven stems from Guitar Hero and made their own album, much better than the official release.
At this point the technology to do a hybrid CD/DVD is out there. If the music industry went that way it would encourage people to buy physical discs instead of downloading far lower quality mp3s, and if you were stuck with a legacy CD player, it would still work.
From playing the 45 sec clips + boots in my car I did feel like the bass was far better sounding on this album than the last. I do feel that the drums are a little clipped or less loud on Boots. Might be intentional for all I know though.
From playing the 45 sec clips + boots in my car I did feel like the bass was far better sounding on this album than the last. I do feel that the drums are a little clipped or less loud on Boots. Might be intentional for all I know though.
ninja starfish
Babyface
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8
I have heard that a different master will be made for the vinyl release of an album , I guess because it is more of a specialty product for audiophiles, instead of a CD which is made to be sold to the casual consumer. Has anyone heard the HTDDAB vinyl? Is it any better?
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
zoopop
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I plan on buying NLOTH on vinyl. I've recently started purchasing the vinyl of indie bands and albums I really enjoy. I purchased the remasters all on 180 gram vinyl and it does sound pretty sweet.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
exactly.
Actually, according to the GOYB single credits, it wasn't mastered by Arnie Acosta, but rather by an English engineer (can't remember the name right now) at Metropolis studios in London. Unless the single and the album were mastered by different people..
Judging from GOYB, NLOTH 2 and the clips, the mastering seems a lot less loud with a lot more dynamics.
Which is good in my book!
Judging from GOYB, NLOTH 2 and the clips, the mastering seems a lot less loud with a lot more dynamics.
Which is good in my book!
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
What I'd like to see is a 5.1 version that's specically mixed for sorround sound. I have a couple albums like that and they sound amazing.
Jimmy Jazz
The Fly
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2004
- Messages
- 239
Yes let's petition U2 and have the album delayed another few months so they can master it correctly. I think not.
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