Gut Feeling about NLOTH: Semi-forced Cohesion

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redhill

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From what I gather from the reviews and what we have heard thus far, I think this album, overall will be excellent.

The thoughts below are based in part on The Times review I just read:

I am also guessing that, although it may initially feel like a "complete" album (in a way HTDAAB, and to a lesser extent, ATYCLB, did not), some of this completeness will have been forced through two purposeful methods.

One will be the "let me in the sound" bit that we have already heard appears in at least two songs (three?)

The lyrical repetition will provide some cohesion (think "barbed wire fence" from UF which appears a couple of times) as will the electronic production.

As a matter of fact, there may be a third link in the songs in that most of them seem to have very current subject matter (and not quite as atmospheric and timeless as UF for example.)

However, since these songs were produced over so many sessions, I think that the album still will not feel like a cohesive work like UF, JT, and Achtung (and others) did.

In terms of landscape and themes, the above are hard to beat and it is this consistency that, in part, make them masterpieces.

Part of this is likely due to the fact that they are pulling from their old tricks so we will hear so many different styles. Perhaps there is some cohesion here as well...

I just think that, although this might even be a spectacular collection of songs, there might still be that nagging feeling that it is not a complete and cohesive work such as the aforementioned albums.

So...no matter how good the songs are...I think this one element will keep NLOTH from quite attaining the title of masterpiece.

Of course this is all just theory without enough facts to back it (I guess that is what a gut feeling is) but I was curious to see what others thought.

I also might be just talking out of my a** and am certainly losing my mind waiting for this *almost* masterpiece :coocoo:
 
One will be the "let me in the sound" bit that we have already heard appears in at least two songs (three?)

Please noooooooooooo...not 3 songs. I can't stand that line "let me in the sound"..it really gives me the shits. It spoiled GOYB and will probably spoil Fez - Being born :(
 
Yah I think this is going to be one of those albums even if you dont like it at first it will sneak up on you and eventually you will love it.The reviews have me excited,especially the fact that everyone agrees that this album does not sound like the last two.ATYCLB and HTDAAB had some great songs on them however the albums never seemed to have that flow like Joshua Tree or Achtung Baby did.
 
Please noooooooooooo...not 3 songs. I can't stand that line "let me in the sound"..it really gives me the shits. It spoiled GOYB and will probably spoil Fez - Being born :(

What's wrong with it? This is hardly "intellectual tortoyse" we're talking about here.
 
This is the one thing that I'm not worried about. I believe they understood how important it was too make a real ALBUM this time out instead of a collection of songs. We'll see if we like the album, but I'll be shocked if it doesn't feel cohesive.
 
I really don't get this extreme obsession with cohesion in this forum. Can someone explain me how cohesion is better than diversity again? You can't really have both and I certainly prefer the latter aspect which means for obvious reasons a less boring album and also requires wider artistic capacities. This album seems to be enough cohesive with a clear innovative direction, the idea of two halves... Too much cohesion is in my opinion a bad excuse to put too similar songs in one album. Is that really what most of you want? How can this be a good thing?
 
Please noooooooooooo...not 3 songs. I can't stand that line "let me in the sound"..it really gives me the shits. It spoiled GOYB and will probably spoil Fez - Being born :(

On the other hand, Get On Your Boots as a whole ruined the "let me in the sound" bit for me (which I thought was the only truly great moment in the song).
 
Bono has already strived for cohesion in last two albums through the use of lyrical repetition in the form of the multiple use of the words soul, kneel and knees and failed miserably.
 
Maybe "Let Me In The Sound" is a theme. Bono in speaking from the perspective of other characters, is letting them in the sound...

Forced cohesion is fine, as long as it's done well.....
 
Neil McCormick seems to point in that direction in his review. He is quite a U2 expert, so he probably has a point.

Myself I think it can go either way. Other U2 albums (and masterpieces) also have several different moods in them and that does not harm them (I'm thinking the Unforgettable fire, where Pride has a very different sound to the rest of the album (no synths to be heard, little reverb) and is very much produced as "the single". It sticks out and kills a bit the "ambient feel" of the rest of the record but the album is still good).

In the new album, even if the studios have changed, the team was more or less the same and it took a year and a half, which is not much by U2 standards. In that sense it should be alot more consistent than HTDAAB (where recordigns from Pop and ATYCLB were dug up, and lots of different producers were involved), and a lot closer to Achtung Baby (for which sessions took place in Berlin, STS, Dogtown and Windmill Lane).

So I think the jury's out until we have heard the album (as it would be). In any case I can sacrifice some consistency for the sake of great songs.
 
It will probably take some getting used to I guess. I actually prefer intellectual tortoyse :reject:

Me too ;]

Although the "let me in the sound" but is mostly sour because of Bono's delivery and the "down" and "drown" rhymes which felt forced (those two words were used a lot in Achtung Baby btw.)
 
'let me in the sound'

FFS :down:

Bollox to 'cohesion' whatever the fuck that is....gimme a load of great songs on one album....could'nt give a toss if they ain't 'cohesive'


BsB

To everyone disregarding the importance of cohesion...members of the band themselves have been directly quoted as regretting (in retrospect) that albums did not feel like a complete work or cohesive...and that that fact made them lesser then albums that did....

Not that the band is always right but still...they do feel that it is important so don't be too quick to disregard the importance of it.

Also, IMO, if an album that feels like a collection of songs and not a complete cohesive work, it detracts from its greatness...

That is what "Best of" albums are for.
 
I think you think too much.

Man you are right about that! I wish I could stop this busy mind! Help!

[/QUOTE]
Cohesion is also subjective, and I think it's overrated.[/QUOTE]

I don't think so. U2's masterpieces always have felt like a complete body of work to me. I really want to be able to put this up there!
 
I really don't get this extreme obsession with cohesion in this forum. Can someone explain me how cohesion is better than diversity again? You can't really have both and I certainly prefer the latter aspect which means for obvious reasons a less boring album and also requires wider artistic capacities. This album seems to be enough cohesive with a clear innovative direction, the idea of two halves... Too much cohesion is in my opinion a bad excuse to put too similar songs in one album. Is that really what most of you want? How can this be a good thing?

I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics. "Cohesion" is basically a catch-all for "album I want to revisit again and again and again because it holds together really well and has a certain je ne sais quoi". Also, cohesion and diversity are not opposites in the sense that when you increase one, you decrease the other. HTDAAB, for example, didn't really have a lot of diversity per se, but it was also one of their least cohesive records. I'd argue that U2's most cohesive records also have a lot of diversity--AB has Mysterious Ways and Acrobat...etc.
 
To everyone disregarding the importance of cohesion...members of the band themselves have been directly quoted as regretting (in retrospect) that albums did not feel like a complete work or cohesive...and that that fact made them lesser then albums that did....

Cohesion is certainly important but I really think that a lot of people here are giving this aspect too much importance like saying for instance that HTDAAB is not a great album or is at least one of the least good album of the band just because it lakes cohesion. Come on, that's for sure one of its main defects but is it really that important? No album is perfect nor are AB and JT which I would say are on the other side far too "cohesive" with too many similar mood songs but that doesn't divert them from being masterpieces. A good balance has certainly to be find between diversity and cohesion but I don't think AB or JT are the best examples here, I think they are master pieces despite the fact that they are not very diversified.

Pop surely is a much better example for a good balance between these two aspects, but even that doesn't make it the best U2 album ever. It seems that with this album U2 is trying to find a very similar kind of balance and that's the better thing they could do regarding this matter IMO. Then the quality of each individual songs are certainly much much more important and if it eventually sounds like a best of with totally new songs (and all the experimentation this album seems to have)... well what a shame :)!
 
To everyone disregarding the importance of cohesion...members of the band themselves have been directly quoted as regretting (in retrospect) that albums did not feel like a complete work or cohesive...and that that fact made them lesser then albums that did....

Not that the band is always right but still...they do feel that it is important so don't be too quick to disregard the importance of it.

Also, IMO, if an album that feels like a collection of songs and not a complete cohesive work, it detracts from its greatness...

That is what "Best of" albums are for.

:up::up: This is right on--and U2 did bring this up with HTDAAB specifically in U2 by U2.
 
I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics. "Cohesion" is basically a catch-all for "album I want to revisit again and again and again because it holds together really well and has a certain je ne sais quoi". Also, cohesion and diversity are not opposites in the sense that when you increase one, you decrease the other. HTDAAB, for example, didn't really have a lot of diversity per se, but it was also one of their least cohesive records. I'd argue that U2's most cohesive records also have a lot of diversity--AB has Mysterious Ways and Acrobat...etc.

Very insightful!
 
I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics. "Cohesion" is basically a catch-all for "album I want to revisit again and again and again because it holds together really well and has a certain je ne sais quoi". Also, cohesion and diversity are not opposites in the sense that when you increase one, you decrease the other. HTDAAB, for example, didn't really have a lot of diversity per se, but it was also one of their least cohesive records. I'd argue that U2's most cohesive records also have a lot of diversity--AB has Mysterious Ways and Acrobat...etc.

Well, I strongly disagree with you : HTDAAB is IMO one of the more diversified album of the band. On one hand you have rock songs like Vertigo, ABOY or LAPOE, on the other very U2-ish ones like MD, City, Yahweh or Crumbs and then ballads like SYCMIOYO, AMAAW and OSC and then the pop-ish masterpiece OOTS. There is a lot of diversity here quite like a best of yes indeed. Regarding to AB a lot of songs have been written from Take Down (I think) and LWTSH. All these songs have a very similar mood, a dark and industrial-sounding mood that also can be find throughout the whole album.
 
But that would make way too much sense.

That is why I called it a gut feeling...

It is a prediction of the future...

Predictions don't make much sense if what you are predicting has already happened...

:huh:

Does that make sense? Your statement is illogical at best.
 
That is why I called it a gut feeling...

It is a prediction of the future...

Predictions don't make much sense if what you are predicting has already happened...

:huh:

Does that make sense? Your statement is illogical at best.

this thread is shit at best. period.

there's no need for an entire new thread about a topic thats been discussed ad nauseum for 6 months now because YOU have a gut feeling based on nothing.

Does THAT make sense? Do you see the logic in that?
 
Well, I strongly disagree with you : HTDAAB is IMO one of the more diversified album of the band. On one hand you have rock songs like Vertigo, ABOY or LAPOE, on the other very U2-ish ones like MD, City, Yahweh or Crumbs and then ballads like SYCMIOYO, AMAAW and OSC and then the pop-ish masterpiece OOTS. There is a lot of diversity here quite like a best of yes indeed. Regarding to AB a lot of songs have been written from Take Down (I think) and LWTSH. All these songs have a very similar mood, a dark and industrial-sounding mood that also can be find throughout the whole album.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But since AB is so vastly superior to HTDAAB, and if what you say above is true, then cohesion is much more important than diversity. And therefore you defeat your own point about cohesion not being all that important.
 
this thread is shit at best. period.

there's no need for an entire new thread about a topic thats been discussed ad nauseum for 6 months now because YOU have a gut feeling based on nothing.

Does THAT make sense? Do you see the logic in that?

Wow - another illogical statement. Is that your specialty? What an odd thing to specialize in!

I dare you to back up your statement and show me the multitude of threads predicting that the new album may lack actual cohesion (although it will have been attempted in several ways) based in part on the reviews of the new album.

Your comments in this thread have been shit at best. The thread has actually spawned some interesting discussion (save for your comments it seems.)
 
Wow - another illogical statement. Is that your specialty? What an odd thing to specialize in!

I dare you to back up your statement and show me the multitude of threads predicting that the new album may lack actual cohesion (although it will have been attempted in several ways) based in part on the reviews of the new album.

Your comments in this thread have been shit at best. The thread has actually spawned some interesting discussion (save for your comments it seems.)

:rolleyes:

sure.
 
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