Photographer's Union Part Deux

[Jive Turkey]

Lets cleanse our palates of all the crazy talk with some pics. I saw an awesome documentary at the Hotdocs Festival last week about conflict photographer Don McCullin (aptly titled McCullin). He's generally seen as Britain's best war photographer and possibly the best living war photographer (debatable). He's been at it for a long time... actually, so long that he's no longer at it... and has an incredible body of work. Here are some of his images

 

[ntalwar]

Anyone use graphics tablets? Is the Wacom Bamboo good?

 

[Jive Turkey]

I use an Wacom Intuos 3. I can't imagine retouching without it anymore. The bamboo is good from what I've been told. Personally, I don't feel like 4x5 tablets are big enough; the ratio of hand movement to cursor movement is too wide, but I might just feel that way because I'm used to using a bigger one. Also, you'll probably feel like a fool for the first two days you're using it, but it'll all click after that

 

[Jive Turkey]

This has me very excited. A Leica digital camera designed specifically for black and white photography. I really hope the other big manufactures take this and run with it. I've always thought that digital cameras should have internal software for various film aesthetics. If I'm shooting a ton on holidays or just randomly around the city, I don't want to have to sit down in Capture One or Photoshop and apply adjustments to every photo (ya, I know I can batch process everything, but that's not the point). There should be libraries of old film aesthetics that can be downloaded directly to the camera.

http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_monochrom/

 

[stammer476]

I like the idea of that camera, but the price is ridiculous. There's no way I'm paying $8K for saving me some time on post.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Well, it's a Leica, so you're paying for more than saving on post time. My brother is picking up an M9 shortly and I am so fucking jealous

 

[stammer476]

I guess I'm just not sure who these kinds of cameras are marketed for. They don't seem like the "money makers" that professionals use in their day-to-day work.

I don't understand spending that kind of money on a body, not to mention a new line of lenses, for a niche product that isn't going to recoup the investment. Seems counterintuitive to me.

I love B&W and wish I had something that could replicate rich film contrast like that, but there's no way I can justify that cost, Leica or not.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I guess I'm just not sure who these kinds of cameras are marketed for. They don't seem like the "money makers" that professionals use in their day-to-day work.

Leica's are the go to camera for photojournalists and have been for decades. These cameras are geared toward them, or at least the new breed of them (and the wannabe photojournalists with money to burn )

A friend of mine also uses his M8 occasionally for portrait jobs. They're just a little less intimidating for the subject than having a big SLR pointed in their face. And they're super quite too. But the price of these Leicas is nothing compared to the Phase backs that a lot of guys use. And those are the money makers. We're talking $40000 digital backs; no body, no lens

 

[Jive Turkey]

I love B&W and wish I had something that could replicate rich film contrast like that, but there's no way I can justify that cost, Leica or not.

I hear ya. Maybe one day, but that's a lot of loot

 

[stammer476]

I don't know much about photojournalism, but I've never been at any kind of news worthy event where someone was shooting with anything smaller than an SLR. I'll just take your word for it.

And, yeah, I'm well aware of the cost of medium format. Portrait work is really the only thing I make money from in photography, but it's just part-time and so I don't even consider the high end SLRs, let alone something like Phase One or Hasselblad. If that's what drives your income, that what's you need and that makes sense to me, business-wise.

I just feel like some of these $6-10K "other" cameras are for photographers who want something different and have lots of money to spend. Unfortunately, that's not an option for me.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I don't know much about photojournalism, but I've never been at any kind of news worthy event where someone was shooting with anything smaller than an SLR. I'll just take your word for it.

I'm talking more about conflict photographers. James Nachtwey types

 

[Jive Turkey]

I just feel like some of these $6-10K "other" cameras are for photographers who want something different and have lots of money to spend. Unfortunately, that's not an option for me.

Ya, they definitely sit in a weird niche-y area. But I suppose if you're a war photographer or hardcore street photographer or whatever and you aren't spending thousands of dollars on lighting gear and grip, you can justify the extra money on the camera.

 

[Vincent Vega]

BBC News - Vietnam War photographer Horst Faas dies
Vietnam War photographer Horst Faas dies

He began his career covering conflicts in 1960, four years after joining the Associated Press (AP).

Horst Faas spent years educating and training new generations of photojournalists

He worked in what was then Zaire, and in Algeria, before relocating to Vietnam, where he won his first Pulitzer Prize in 1965.

Accepting the award, he said he aimed to "record the suffering, the emotions and the sacrifices of both Americans and Vietnamese in... this little bloodstained country so far away," AP said.

He had a front row view of much of that suffering.

When not in the midst of the conflict, Faas worked at AP's Saigon base, viewing and selecting images from his photographers to transmit on the wire to the rest of the world.

Under his direction, AP photographers captured images that quickly became synonymous with the long war: among the most notable were Eddie Adams' image of the execution of a Viet Cong suspect and Nick Ut's picture of a naked Vietnamese girl fleeing a napalm attack.

Despite being injured in 1967, he stayed in the country until 1970.

Here's a gallery of some of his work. Some quite impressive shots. One of those who got really close.
Horst Faas: Pulitzer-Preisträger und Kriegsfotograf gestorben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Kultur

A Swiss conflict photographer recently gave his very sensible interpretation of the famous Cappa quote, "If your photo isn't good, you weren't close enough", seeing it less as the physical closeness (like commonly interpreted), but more as the emotional closeness to the subject.

 

[Jive Turkey]

His photos of the men in Bangladesh being tortured and killed had a big impact on me the first time I saw them. Very powerful stuff

 

[ladyfreckles]

I've put off getting a tripod for far too long. I'd love a Gitzo, but I'm no where near professional enough for that so I'll have to go with Manfrotto. I tried grabbing tripods for cheap at Good Will but they can't hold my camera up with anything other than the 50mm lens on it.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I've put off getting a tripod for far too long. I'd love a Gitzo, but I'm no where near professional enough for that so I'll have to go with Manfrotto. I tried grabbing tripods for cheap at Good Will but they can't hold my camera up with anything other than the 50mm lens on it.

Manfrotto makes some hardcore professional tripods. I prefer them to the Gitzos sometimes; the twist tighten feature on the Gitzo legs just feels sketchy to me (though I'm sure it's safe. Just me) and I always forget which way is tighten and which way is loosen . This is mine (too big for everyday use though):

And you can always get some inexpensive legs and invest in a good head. How much you looking to spend?

 

[ladyfreckles]

$600 I think. I was thinking about the 190 but I have no idea what kind of head to get with it.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Oh, you'll get something sweet for that price. I've got this head and I love it. The perfect head, imo

 

[ladyfreckles]

Oh, you'll get something sweet for that price. I've got this head and I love it. The perfect head, imo

That's pretty sweet looking.

My fiance is living proof that using an expensive camera does not make you a good photographer. He'll take my 7D and the pictures that come out look like they came from a cell phone.

 

[ladyfreckles]

Why oh why did I look at the 5D Mark III's specs?

 

[ntalwar]

Why oh why did I look at the 5D Mark III's specs?

$3500 seems a bit much for the specs, a $1300 premium over the Mark II.
I won't be upgrading to it.

 

[Jive Turkey]

$3500 seems a bit much for the specs, a $1300 premium over the Mark II.
I won't be upgrading to it.

I totally agree. It's pretty much a mkii with better video specs. Not worth the $1300 upgrade for me either. I was a little disappointed actually

 

[Jive Turkey]

Why oh why did I look at the 5D Mark III's specs?

If you've already got a 7D and are considering something else, a mkii might not be a bad idea. The 7D handles video better than the mkii and the mkii is less expensive than the mkiii. Then you also have the benefit of a backup body in case one starts acting up

 

[ladyfreckles]

If you've already got a 7D and are considering something else, a mkii might not be a bad idea. The 7D handles video better than the mkii and the mkii is less expensive than the mkiii. Then you also have the benefit of a backup body in case one starts acting up

I want to add a full frame to my collection. It would be extremely useful to me, especially indoors or in low light (when I can't use a flash). The plan was to grab a used 5D Mark II when the Mark III came out and save a lot of money. Then I made the mistake of looking at the 5DIII's specs. It's impressive.

I'm thinking about getting a 5DII and selling it next year or something to put towards the 5DIII (that way it breaks up the purchase). However I might lose more money than I'd save.

$3500 seems a bit much for the specs, a $1300 premium over the Mark II.
I won't be upgrading to it.

You have to be kidding. It has a new autofocus system that rivals my 7D's (some have said it's even better) and blows the 5DII's out of the water, it performs even better in low light, several very useful in camera added features (HDR), two storage slots instead of one, and it's faster than the 5DII. So much more has changed. It took every complaint I had about the 5DII and addressed it. I hated the 5DII's AF system. I mean, I could work with it. Any good photographer can work around a camera like that. However, it felt like a downgrade from my 7D and a major downgrade from any Nikon I've ever used.

Is it worth the price increase? Eh, maybe if it was $3,000 instead of $3,500. I think that might have to do with the currency exchange rate right now, which sucks for us, but it is what it is.

 

[ntalwar]

You have to be kidding. It has a new autofocus system that rivals my 7D's (some have said it's even better) and blows the 5DII's out of the water, it performs even better in low light, several very useful in camera added features (HDR), two storage slots instead of one, and it's faster than the 5DII. So much more has changed. It took every complaint I had about the 5DII and addressed it. I hated the 5DII's AF system. I mean, I could work with it. Any good photographer can work around a camera like that. However, it felt like a downgrade from my 7D and a major downgrade from any Nikon I've ever used.

Is it worth the price increase? Eh, maybe if it was $3,000 instead of $3,500. I think that might have to do with the currency exchange rate right now, which sucks for us, but it is what it is.

Nope, I'm not kidding. Many other 5DII owners feel the same, and are not upgrading (see dpreview). If I did more AI servo/action type photography, I might upgrade. Sales have been sluggish - nowhere near the D800 sales. There's speculation that they will drop the price. The in camera HDR is not real impressive - Photomatix does a much better job, and even then additional post-processing is usually needed in photoshop.

 

[ladyfreckles]

Nope, I'm not kidding. Many other 5DII owners feel the same, and are not upgrading (see dpreview). If I did more AI servo/action type photography, I might upgrade. Sales have been sluggish - nowhere near the D800 sales. There's speculation that they will drop the price. The in camera HDR is not real impressive - Photomatix does a much better job.

Yeah, I saw that on dpreview. I could understand not upgrading if you already have a 5D. For me I shoot a lot of moving objects. But I should add that the 5DII is also invaluable as a camera and even with its sluggish AF system (didn't really get that across well in my post). I'd be happy with either it would just take a lot longer to adjust to the 5DII.

They made more of the 5DIII for launch than they did of the 5dII and it's still getting sold out like hot cakes. It's being outsold by the D800, yeah, but it's still selling extremely well (this is something I noticed a lot of people are missing). I'm not sure if we'll see a price drop within the next year. I think it's priced over-competitively but a lot of people have switched over and really like the change. On another photography forum I'm on (canon based) a lot of people have made the switch and found it to be worth it.

Canon 5diii review for weddings (AKA 5d3)

However, those people all make a living doing photography. They probably made up their "loss" within the month or two by doing weddings (especially considering we're in wedding season now), so the cost is less of an issue to them. Of course they could also be feeling jilted by Canon and they're trying to justify what they paid for the camera. Some people genuinely don't care what they pay for something as long as they can get it "right now" and refuse to believe they paid too much money.

 

[Jive Turkey]

The autofocus on the mkii is pretty balls, but I don't use AF lenses, so it's never been an issue for me. Same goes for frames per second; More often than not, I'm limited by the recycle time on the strobes, not the camera. There's really nothing on the mkiii that I would take advantage of that doesn't already meet my needs on the mkii. If I thought I might be doing more video work, I'd consider it, but for the price, I'd probably be better off picking up a 7D for that stuff

 

[Jive Turkey]

My fiance is living proof that using an expensive camera does not make you a good photographer. He'll take my 7D and the pictures that come out look like they came from a cell phone.

Well then why don't you give the poor guy a few lessons?!?

 

[ladyfreckles]

The autofocus on the mkii is pretty balls, but I don't use AF lenses, so it's never been an issue for me. Same goes for frames per second; More often than not, I'm limited by the recycle time on the strobes, not the camera. There's really nothing on the mkiii that I would take advantage of that doesn't already meet my needs on the mkii. If I thought I might be doing more video work, I'd consider it, but for the price, I'd probably be better off picking up a 7D for that stuff

Yeah, that's why I'd never sell my 7D for one.

Well then why don't you give the poor guy a few lessons?!?

Part of it is him having no idea how to shoot manual (I've brief him on what all the settings mean but he's bad at thinking about when he needs to change something), and part of it is that he just doesn't have the natural eye/skill for photography. He's alright with a point-and-shoot, and he took a couple of nice photos with our friend's D7000, but when he's forced to shoot manual it just turns out awful. What he needs to do is practice.

Funnily enough that's why I got the 7D as opposed to one of the Rebels. I wanted something that would punish me if I didn't know how to use it. It does a very good job at that. The fact that it's immortal is just another bonus.

 

[moiph]

I want a D90 or D7000. I like the way Nikon feels in my hands a lot better than LadyFreckle's Canon.

Part of it is him having no idea how to shoot manual (I've brief him on what all the settings mean but he's bad at thinking about when he needs to change something), and part of it is that he just doesn't have the natural eye/skill for photography. He's alright with a point-and-shoot, and he took a couple of nice photos with our friend's D7000, but when he's forced to shoot manual it just turns out awful. What he needs to do is practice.

It's true I really don't like shooting manual. There's no need to for me, not when there are cameras out there with smart scenic modes designed for people just like me. I'm a programmer not a photographer.