pub crawler said:
And I'm betting I'm not as ignorant as you think me to be, cardosino.
Maybe, but comments like "It's a typical, conservative evangelical church right in the middle of a major stronghold for conservative Christians. As for Warren, if it looks like a duck....." certainly don't dispay an intimate knowledge of the facts, for argument's sake, I'll apologize and say you're not.
pub crawler said:
I know a bit out Saddleback's history -- hell, I even attended a Sunday morning service there several years ago -- and Saddleback was (and is still?) in fact a member congregation of the very conservative Southern Baptist Convention, though Saddleback certainly has never made much effort to put that fact in their publicity material.
Is the label more important to you than what's inside ?
pub crawler said:
Look, I give Warren credit for even talking about the AIDS epidemic, let alone the fact that his church is putting resources toward the problem. I can guarantee you that this is rare among conservative evangelical churches. By the way, you'll note that in the article I've referenced above, Warren himself describes Saddleback as "conservative theologically." Though he adds that his church is "radical when it comes to methodology." To Warren's claim that his church does "radical methodology," I say great. I hope that actually means something. I really do. But one can never be too skeptical of such claims coming from conservative evangelicals -- especially when it has to do with an issue like AIDS.
I understand where you're coming from, but it seems like nothing short of financial audits and notarized logs of all church-sponsored activities would convince you otherwise.
Come along some day, see for yourself, speak to some people, see what you think.
Did you know Rick's wife was visiting AIDS clinics and meeting with the President of the Philippines and other 3rd world countries in between fighting breast cancer ? Rick's not a saint, neither is his wife and God knows I sure am not, and Saddleback isn't perfect, but it's the closest I've personally found to a church that actually addresses these types of issues (poverty, AIDS, etc) head on in a practical way in a manner I can actually trust.
Yes, Rick is anti-stem-cell research, pro-life, etc. But those issues are very much in the background at Saddleback, the focus is on helping the poor, homeless, etc.
I voted for Kerry, but did not agree 100% with him on everything, I chose the most improtant issues to me personally, and made my decison base don that. So it goes with Saddleback, yes it's a Baptist church, ut if their focus was on gay marriage, abortion, and stem-cell research, I wouldn't be a member.