Let kids be kids!!!!!!!!!!! Good Lord!!!

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Dreadsox said:
So, I as a school administrator should be free from liability if someone gets hurt?

To me it seems most logical to treat it just like any other tort involving negligence. If the school is directly responsible for the injury because of some negligence, then maybe the school is liable. For example, if a kid is going across monkey bars but a bar is loose, breaks off, the kid falls and breaks an arm, the school would be liable b/c the playground was not properly maintained. But, if a kid is playing tag, trips (was not pushed and didn't trip over any actual object), and breaks his arm, the school shouldn't be liable. Once's a tort subject to litigation, the other is just an accident.

I'm not sure how it works with schools, but this is how it works at gymnastics clubs. If a kid gets injured because of "equipment failure" or because of a coach's negligence, the gym is responsible. If a kid who has been taught countless times NEVER to put her hands back if she lands on her butt does it anyway and snaps her elbow, that's her fault.
 
Someone official does ultimately have to be the responsible party when legal action is pursued, of course. I think what most of us are lamenting is that the propensity to litigate has become widespread enough to necessitate such strict preventive rules in the first place.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


To me it seems most logical to treat it just like any other tort involving negligence. If the school is directly responsible for the injury because of some negligence, then maybe the school is liable.

So hypothetically, maybe the playing field in which tag is being played is stone as my other schools playground was. The stone constantly got on the tar surrounding the playground. I would not allow tag because the playing environement would lead there to be cause for injury.

Lets say someone gets hurt, subpoena's the nurses records and finds that there are 5-10 injuries weekly due to TAG. I have allowed it to continue and their child unfortunatly breaks a leg, arm, ect in a spot that could potentially lead to extensive physical therapy. Should I be liable.

WE are commenting on a situation where we do not know the facts, environment, staffing, ect....To adequately judge the rediculousness of this.
 
Dreadsox said:


So hypothetically, maybe the playing field in which tag is being played is stone as my other schools playground was. The stone constantly got on the tar surrounding the playground. I would not allow tag because the playing environement would lead there to be cause for injury.

And I would agree. We had this problem in grade school. Our playground had a cement/tar lot and we hadn't raised enough money to put playground equipment on it yet. Most kids would play soccer at recess, but we had to stop completely b/c it was too dangerous to play sports on the cement (said the admin). Instead, they bought a lot across the street and made a grass field where we could play soccer, Blob, Red Rover, tag, whatever. We even had appointed Safeties where you could cross the street.

Personally, if I were an administrator and knew most of the kids enjoyed playing tag, or something similar, I would have an intramural so they could play in the gym and be monitored.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:

Personally, if I were an administrator and knew most of the kids enjoyed playing tag, or something similar, I would have an intramural so they could play in the gym and be monitored.

By intramural I am assuming you mean after school....

The first recess in my school is at 10:45 the last is at 12:45...

The Gym is occupied by classes being conducted during this time. So it would not be at recess time.

After school would require the money to pay a staff member.
 
No, you should not be able to waive liability as a school official and under tort law you cannot waive liability for anything which is seen as part of your professional duty.

To suggest anything else would be rewriting hundreds of years of tort law.

To me it seems most logical to treat it just like any other tort involving negligence. If the school is directly responsible for the injury

That's not what the law of torts of negligence is concerned about; in fact it is the opposite.
 
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I'd feel great if they were keeping bullying and fights off. That would be more than most schools can say.

Banning tag? As a parent, if you feel your child is in danger from playing tag, you need to rethink your beliefs, because your kid will be held back by that.
 
Dreadsox said:


By intramural I am assuming you mean after school....

The first recess in my school is at 10:45 the last is at 12:45...

The Gym is occupied by classes being conducted during this time. So it would not be at recess time.

After school would require the money to pay a staff member.

I meant during long recess. If enough kids seemed interested in a sport or other organized activity, we'd have the option to play it inside (the gym) during long recess. Sometimes, there'd be a game like Blob that would become popular and everyone would play, but since we weren't allowed on the cement, they'd make it intramural so you could sign up and play indoors. If you didn't sign up, you went outside like everyone else. Otherwise, no kids were allowed inside during recess (unless it was pouring or the windchill too low). We never had intramurals after school. Like you said, it's too expensive so if we wanted them, we could sign up at the public school across the street.
 
yolland said:
I think what most of us are lamenting is that the propensity to litigate has become widespread enough to necessitate such strict preventive rules in the first place.

Yup.

As a teacher I understand them making the rule they did. But I think it's not the killjoy school that has the problem. It's the sue-happy society that's the problem.

If people are saying to the schools/adminstrators--"We don't care if you get sued. That's your problem. Let the kids have fun!" then that shows a real lack of empathy for the position schools are placed in today.
 
I SERIOUSLY think that this litegagious (sp? mmm) world people are living in, is just absolutely abhorant! Soooo your kid falls over and breaks his arm, it costs a couple of hundred dollars to get it set for 6 weeks and maybe one or two physio appointments to work it afterwards if its needed. So maybe $500 to a $1000. So k, if you're asking the school just to cover medical bills, cause you're pov, but most cases its like a honey pot and parents seem to greedybastards.

I agree with an earlier poster, if you don't let your kids get hurt, get sick, eat some dirt, cut themselves with scissors, fall out of a tree and break their leg etc how do they build a resistance, how do they learn and understand things?

I've done the most dangerous things as a kid, we climbed on the roof of the house to jump into pools, we had people jumping on trampolines with a hose and slipping off and falling on the ground, at school we used to slide down the slide and smash into the kid at the bottom, or climb on top of the flying fox and hang upside down and i never got really hurt (yeah i ripped my leg up bad on a nail once) but we were kids. GET OVER IT!
*shakes head*
 
Just think of the great "When I was your age" stories we will have for all the kids.

When I was your age, I played.................TAG!!!! (ominous music)

Meh, not quite the same as walking 5km through a snowstorm in newspaper boots.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


I meant during long recess.

I have no idea what long recess is in an elementary school. The schools I am familiar with get on 15 minute block of recess.

Again, there are classes in the gym being conducted by the Physical Education teacher.
 
phillyfan26 said:
I'd feel great if they were keeping bullying and fights off. That would be more than most schools can say.

I am personally teaching lessons in class and working with kids on this issue. Many people do not understand that the victim, the bully, and the other students are contributors to bullying. They kids need to learn the skills to help make it stop.
 
I think it is micromanaging, and teaching kids to fear anything and everything. It's irrational and subjective fear, rational fear is diffiicult enough to deal with. Kids have enough to truly fear these days without fearing tag, it's sad and unhealthy. I am glad I got to really be a kid and be carefree when I was. It makes me feel so old to say "I remember the days", but I do.
 
fah said:
Next up...

Banning paper because of paper cuts :up:

Well would you believe that some schools over here have banned kids throwing paper aeroplanes on the grounds that they might just hit someone in the eye!
One of my sons was actually hurt playing tag at school a few weeks ago and broke his glasses. I was a bit annoyed that I had to fork out for a new frame but I would never dream of suing the school or call for a ban on tag. You can't wrap children in cotton wool and I'd much prefer they get the chance to play such games, have fun and learn about risks even if they get a few bumps and bruises along the way. I'm sure that the vast majority of parents would agree with this but you only need one or two to make a fuss and with the current climate where schools are worried about litigation, the views of a minority sadly often affect the majority.
 
Dreadsox said:
I have no idea what long recess is in an elementary school. The schools I am familiar with get on 15 minute block of recess.

We had morning recess and long recess. I can't remember exactly, since it was so long ago, but I think morning recess was 10-15 minutes. K-5th had it together, then 6-8th had theirs right after. Long recess was I think before lunch for K-5. They go out to play for like 30 mins then come in and eat in the cafeteria. While they are out, the 6-8th eat in the cafeteria and when they come in, 6-8th go out. So, no one was ever in class during either period of long recess and the gym could be used for organized activities. Keyword being organized. You had to sign up, otherwise, out you went. There were always two parents and on teacher forced to be on recess duty, so one would monitor the intramural instead, being that now half the kids are indoors, and the school wouldn't have to get an extra person. It works as long as the gym is free during recess, which from your posts sound like it's not the case at your school.
 
Dreadsox said:


recess makes you think this?
I know children need protection, discipline, and love, but this bubble-wrapping and foam padding the world for the children has gone too far. As a parent, I would never be able to keep up with what is acceptable in child-rearing and what is acceptable at the schools.
 
Golightly Grrl said:
I know children need protection, discipline, and love, but this bubble-wrapping and foam padding the world for the children has gone too far. As a parent, I would never be able to keep up with what is acceptable in child-rearing and what is acceptable at the schools.

As evident with this thread, I think those types of parents are in the minority. But, like Greenlight said, they have a habit of ruining things for the rest of us.
 
Liesje said:


As evident with this thread, I think those types of parents are in the minority. But, like Greenlight said, they have a habit of ruining things for the rest of us.
Yes, I agree. Like a mom who doesn't want her kids to read the Harry Potter books so she's working to get them banned from the library. What kills me is that schools, libraries, etc., cave in to these demands.
 
Liesje said:


As evident with this thread, I think those types of parents are in the minority. But, like Greenlight said, they have a habit of ruining things for the rest of us.


yup. it's the 80%/20% rule.

80% of the people are great, 20% of the people are terrible; but that 20% takes up 80% of your time and effort.
 
Golightly Grrl said:
Yes, I agree. Like a mom who doesn't want her kids to read the Harry Potter books so she's working to get them banned from the library. What kills me is that schools, libraries, etc., cave in to these demands.

I strongly get upset when I see it characterized as caving in. The 80% who should be vocal aren't.
 
Erm, well, I live in a red heartland state, and I can assure you that "pussyass" playground safety litigation is alive and well here, although I haven't heard of tag being banned yet.
Dreadsox said:
I strongly get upset when I see it characterized as caving in. The 80% who should be vocal aren't.
Do the 80% usually know about it when those kinds of things happen? We would certainly be vocal about it if we knew someone was trying to ban Harry Potter from our school library, but I'm not sure we'd necessarily hear about it if they were.

But, I don't think this situation is really analogous to playground safety politics--campaigning parents is one thing, litigating parents something else. I shake my head when I hear about parents suing over minor injuries, but to be honest I'm not sure I'd be willing to go knock on their door (again, assuming I even knew about it) and say, "You know, I don't think you should be suing the school over this--so your kid needed a few stitches, big whoop, c'est la vie."
Greenlight said:
One of my sons was actually hurt playing tag at school a few weeks ago and broke his glasses. I was a bit annoyed that I had to fork out for a new frame but I would never dream of suing the school or call for a ban on tag. You can't wrap children in cotton wool and I'd much prefer they get the chance to play such games, have fun and learn about risks even if they get a few bumps and bruises along the way. I'm sure that the vast majority of parents would agree with this but you only need one or two to make a fuss and with the current climate where schools are worried about litigation, the views of a minority sadly often affect the majority.
Our oldest son actually severed a major artery (from a compound elbow fracture) falling off the monkey bars onto the hard dirt below when he was in preschool. He almost bled to death and there was some minor permanent nerve damage, although overall he healed up fine. And we didn't sue either, although we would've lobbied hard to get them to install loose-fill under all the climbing equipment after that--which as it turned out wasn't necessary, because the directors were frightened enough themselves by the incident that they went ahead and did it anyway. We certainly wouldn't have wanted to them to ban all climbing equipment, running on the dirt etc. or anything because of it though; basically our feeling was, This happens--kids fall, they break bones, it's a reasonable precaution to provide a softer surface beneath anything where they might fall from a height, but even then they'll still fall and bang themselves up, and that's OK, even with the everpresent risk of some freak complication; we don't attempt to make our kids live in some cocoon at home, and we wouldn't ask the school to do that either. In general, I wish more parents would take this route--think about how likely what happened to their child is to happen to another's, weigh the likely preventive benefits (and how serious the risk of injury is) against any crimp it might put in enjoyment of play, then lobby to get the school to enact whatever reasonable precautions against further such incidents...rather than suing. Like I said, though, I don't know that I'd feel comfortable attacking fellow parents who chose to sue after their child was injured--and if anyone had come to us shortly after our son was injured and urged us not to sue, I think I'd likely have blown up and told them to go fuck themselves, even though we weren't in fact considering suing.

I understand that schools aren't the bad guy here, but it's not that easy to challenge parents' attitudes either, and the consequences of litigation can add up fast.
 
I got crotched playing football after school when I was 13 and could barely walk for a week. I had to limp to class after everyone else had already went because I didn't want to get bumped around.

I broke my wrist and a day later I was back playing baseball using one arm.

We made our own treehouse about 20 feet above the ground using rickety old plywood and a rope for climbing up and down.

I have wiped out about 3-4 times on my bike without a helmet as a kid.

I got skulled by a softball while sitting on the outfield fence as a kid. I went flying but only had a slight headache.

I got a soccer ball in the face at school while sitting on a stage watching an intermural game and fell to the gym floor after. I survived that too.

My sister pushed me and my head went through a huge fish tank at our house when I was eight. I ,in turn, ran her over with my bike and she went flying into a ditch and needed stiches.

I was dragged about 100ft by a snowmobile after my gloves got stuck in the back while pushing it out of a snowbank, I was about 9 at the time.

And spitballs, blech, empty out your bic pen, make a tiny paper ball and putoohy, right in the eye!!


Post your "scary" experiences.
 
I got smacked by someone swinging on the swings. I was running behind the swingset, and passed by at just the right moment to be smacked.

I believe I actually flew through the air. I had the wind knocked out of me, and I remember the teacher's aide running over to me, but I don't think I was hurt.

Then, of course, I stuck my tongue to a metal twirling bar in the middle of winter, and you all know what happened next. :wink:

"... thtuck .... thtuck! THTUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!"
 
trevster2k said:

Post your "scary" experiences.

Since I was a tomboy and did gymnastics, I've been in some risky pickles, but the one time I remember being scared was in gymnastics, I was doing some sole circles. Basically, you're on the bar on your hips w/ your hands on the bar (called front support), you push (cast) up and set your feet on the bar, lean back, and go all the way around on your feet so you end up standing on the bar. Not too difficult at the time, done it hundreds of times, but this one time I missed a foot and peeled off underneath. I landed on the back of my head and neck. The next thing I remember was my friend standing over me. She came running over b/c she said she saw me land on my head out of the corner of her eye, but I didn't move or react. I was quite shaken up and very sore for a long time, but it never crossed my mind to sue the school. I fell, it was a mistake.

I was only hurt bad once during elementary school. We were playing some kind of tag game in the choir room during music class (our music teacher was a fruitcake). I slipped and fell and sprained my wrist. It swelled up quite purple. My mom said it wasn't broken, we wrapped it for a few days, and that was that.

During my time in elementary school things happened such as a kid sliced off part of his finger in a paper cutter, a kid in my class fell and broke his wrist so bad bones were sticking out, a kid was standing on a chair and said he could do a backflip off but when he tried the chair slipped and he landed on his head, one of my best friends slipped while running on the cement near the sandbox and had bloody scabs on her hands, face, arms, and legs. You know, just the usual!

I actually gave a girl a bad concussion once. I was going through a beam routine and she came up and sat on the end of the beam without me knowing (why?!?!). I went into my tumbling pass, still not aware she was there, and felt my foot hit something. I had kicked her right in the head and she started babbling about a homework assignment.
 
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Golightly Grrl said:
This chick named Bridget slipped a worm down my back so I tied her to a pole with her poncho.

Now, that's funny. I'd pay to see that!
 
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