US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread #6 - Page 8 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-18-2008, 10:35 AM   #141
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post


no one knows anything in June -- and note how this article plays up the whole "IT'S SOOOOOO CLOSE! OMG!! WHAT COULD HAPPEN! IT'S ANYBODY'S RACE!" angle when the facts really don't support this.

but then, this is a media that continues to believe McCain is a straight-talker who calls 'em as he sees 'em.

[q]Obama has narrow lead on McCain: Reuters poll
Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:27am EDT

By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama has a narrow 5-point lead on Republican John McCain in the U.S. presidential race, but holds a big early edge with the crucial swing voting blocs of independents and women, according to a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

Two weeks after clinching the Democratic nomination and kicking off the general election campaign, Obama leads McCain by 47 percent to 42 percent. That is down slightly from Obama's 8-point advantage on McCain in May, before Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York left the Democratic race.

But Obama holds a big 52 percent to 30 percent edge among independents and 51 percent to 36 percent among women -- two critical voting blocs that could help determine the winner in November's presidential election.

"Obama's significant lead among independents puts him over the top, and that's a problem for McCain," pollster John Zogby said. "McCain is going to have to appeal to independents in some way to win, and right now he has a lot of work to do."

Obama, 46, still must overcome questions about his relative lack of experience, the survey showed. More than half of likely voters agree with criticism the first-term senator from Illinois does not have the necessary experience.

Questions about McCain's age -- he will be 72 in August and would be the oldest person to become president if elected -- do not resonate as strongly with voters, the survey found. Nearly two-thirds disagreed with the idea that McCain's age should be a factor in the presidential race.

"The experience question is a hurdle for Obama, but so far voters seem to have other things on their mind like change," Zogby said. "Age is an issue for McCain, but it doesn't appear to be an overwhelming problem."

Obama, who would be the first black U.S. president, triumphed in early June after a grueling five-month Democratic nomination fight with Clinton. McCain clinched the Republican race in March.

But Obama did not get a bounce in polls out of his victory. After the long nominating race voters are already familiar with the candidates and settling into a pattern, Zogby said.

"This race is starting out very close, and barring something dramatic is likely to stay close at least until near the end," he said.

McCain and Obama have clashed sharply on economic and security issues in the campaign's early stages. Obama has tried to link McCain to the policies of unpopular President George W. Bush and McCain has questioned Obama's judgment and experience.

OBAMA LEADS ON ECONOMY

The survey found voters gave Obama a narrow edge over McCain as a manager of the economy, 45 percent to 40 percent. Independents preferred Obama on the economy by 50 percent to 28 percent.

Obama's margin on economic leadership was down slightly from his 9-point advantage on McCain last month. McCain has criticized Obama for his plans to raise taxes on Americans who make more than $250,000 a year and to raise capital gains tax rates.

McCain led Obama among white voters, men, born-again Christians and high-income voters. Obama led among Hispanics, blacks, Catholics, young voters, suburban voters and union households. The two were essentially tied among voters over the age of 65.

Obama, an Iraq war opponent who has been labeled a liberal by Republicans, earned the support of about one-fifth of voters who identified themselves as conservative.

McCain, a former Navy pilot and Vietnam prisoner of war who has been a staunch advocate of the Iraq war, led 45 percent to 39 percent among families that include members of the armed forces.

"That a decorated hero like McCain, particularly a Republican, is not leading among that group by a huge amount is very significant," Zogby said. "That is really all about Iraq."

The inclusion of independent candidate Ralph Nader and Libertarian Party candidate Bob Barr, who are both in the process of trying to add their names to state ballots, did little to change the shape of the presidential race.

When Nader and Barr were included in the survey, Obama still led McCain by 5 percent, 45 percent to 40 percent. Nader and Barr each gained 3 percent of the vote.

The national survey of 1,113 likely voters, taken Thursday through Saturday, had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.[/q]



so you see, the media isn't liberal. it isn't conservative. it's out to MAKE MORE MONEY. those are it's values. and there's more money to be made when the race is close than when the race isn't close. every little movement will be spun as if it will have an impact on the race *only* if it appears to be making the race tighter.

and for some perspective, the polls in June are notoriously bad at predicting what will happen in November.
People want to be right in predicting what is happening, so although you may hope that talk of a close race is just talk to make more money, the polling that has been done shows otherwise. Yes, it is polling and prone to a lot of error, but recall that when John Kerry finally won the nomination in 2004, he jumped out to a lead of 10 points in most polls over Bush. Bush of course ended up winning by nearly 3 points in the actual election.

By contrast, Obama's bounce from winning the nomination was about half of Kerry's and is now down to only 4 points based on the latest polls:

Rasmussen Tracking: Obama 48% McCain 45%
Gallup Tracking: Obama 46% McCain 42%
Reuters/Zogby: Obama 47% McCain 42%
ABC News/Washington Post: Obama 49% McCain 45%
Cook/ RT strategies: Obama 44% McCain 40%

Essentially a very slight lead outside of the margin of error. Historically, the largest leads between candidates are posted earlier in the year. As you move closer to November, the race tends to tighten up with the margin of one candidate over the other getting smaller. No one can claim now that the race is close because Hillary is still in the race or that McCain is getting a free pass.

More importantly, this race will be won in the electoral college, not in the national popular vote. Obama has weakness in multiple swing states that is still showing up in the polls. McCain still leads in Michigan when you average the polls despite the fact that Michigan has the worst economy in the country. If Romney is on the ticket with McCain, Michigan may very well go red this year. Obama will never win West Virginia and no Democratic candidate has won the presidency without West Virginia since the 1920s.

While states like Virginia, North Carolina, and Indiana may be in play now when they haven't been in the past, McCain has a better shot of keeping those states than Obama has of keeping Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and New Hampshire.

Another basic reality is that the United States is still a racist country in many area's, which could cost Obama certain swing states.

So at this point, the factual evidence shows a close race shaping up and anything but McCain being blown out or having no chance of winning. McCain is in a good position despite the many advantages that Obama has, and could very well win the Presidency in November. Not bad for a guy who everyone claimed was DONE, just a year ago.
__________________

Strongbow is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 11:05 AM   #142
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,390
Local Time: 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post

More importantly, this race will be won in the electoral college, not in the national popular vote. Obama has weakness in multiple swing states that is still showing up in the polls. McCain still leads in Michigan when you average the polls despite the fact that Michigan has the worst economy in the country. If Romney is on the ticket with McCain, Michigan may very well go red this year. Obama will never win West Virginia and no Democratic candidate has won the presidency without West Virginia since the 1920s.



since you're willing to believe polls in June, here's one for you:

[q]June 18, 2008 - Obama Leads McCain In Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Quinnipiac University Swing State Poll Finds; Clinton On The Ticket Does Not Help Dems --- FLORIDA: Obama 47 - McCain 43; OHIO: Obama 48 - McCain 42; PENNSYLVANIA: Obama 52 - McCain 40

Word format

With strong support from women, blacks and younger voters, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, the apparent Democratic presidential contender, leads Arizona Sen. John McCain, expected to be the Republican candidate, among likely voters in Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, according to simultaneous Quinnipiac University Swing State polls released today.

This is the first time Sen. Obama has led in all three states. No one has been elected President since 1960 without taking two of these three largest swing states in the Electoral College. Results from the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University polls show:

* Florida: Obama edges McCain 47 - 43 percent;
* Ohio: Obama tops McCain 48 - 42 percent;
* Pennsylvania: Obama leads McCain 52 - 40 percent.

In the three states, Obama leads McCain 10 to 23 percentage points among women, while men are too close to call. The Democrat trails among white voters in Florida and Ohio, but gets more than 90 percent of black voters in each state. He also has double-digit leads among young voters in each state.

"Finally getting Sen. Hillary Clinton out of the race has been a big boost for Sen. Barack Obama. He now leads in all three of the major swing states, although his margins in Florida and Ohio are small," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

"Sen. Obama is certainly not out of the woods, but these results are a good indication that he enters the summer slightly ahead in the race to be the next president."
[/q]



and the fact remains that the only reason that McCain is even viable is because of the great lengths he's gone to separate himself from President Bush, even if the substance doesn't support his claims (though we can think back to the days when McCain was thinking about becoming a Democrat). there was never any question in my mind that McCain was the only viable Republican candidate, and the party wisely did the right thing and nominated the only candidate who would have a fighting chance against the Dems.

but when it comes to Congress, the Republicans are posed for heavy, heavy losses in both houses due to the abject failure of the Bush presidency. even of Obama should somehow lose, McCain will have to work will a Democratic House and Senate.
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
Old 06-18-2008, 01:48 PM   #143
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,741
Local Time: 12:34 PM
Quote:
Two Muslim women at Barack Obama's rally in Detroit Monday were barred from sitting behind the podium by campaign volunteers seeking to prevent the women's headscarves from appearing in photographs or on television with the candidate.
The campaign has apologized to the women, all Obama supporters who said they felt betrayed by their treatment at the rally.
Muslims barred from photo at Obama event - USATODAY.com

The impression I get is Obama is really going far to prove to some Americans that he is not Muslim. I think next time he's in Detroit, he should allow those women to be in the photo op.
Pearl is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 02:30 PM   #144
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:34 PM
^ That story caught my eye too. It sounds like most likely, this was solely a stupid judgment call on the part of two rookie volunteers. But yes, I've also wished that when the Obama campaign addresses these (patently silly) claims that he's somehow some sort of crypto-Muslim, they'd also address the patently bigoted assumptions about Muslims that give those rumors their bite in the first place.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 02:42 PM   #145
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,390
Local Time: 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
address the patently bigoted assumptions about Muslims that give those rumors their bite in the first place.


yep. the fact that "Muslim" is an insult to some is an insult to us all.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 06-18-2008, 04:58 PM   #146
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,257
Local Time: 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

this just could be a well fought election decided upon actual issues. what a refreshing change from the GOP of 2004 who's message was, "if John Kerry is elected, terrorists will kill you."
Sorry to break it to you, but liberals are 10 times as worse and vile as the GOP in spreading garbage like that. Liberals don't want to talk issues. When they talk about issues, they lose. That's why so many groups put out videos like these:



and this:




These videos are despicable, and anyone who appears in these videos is, too. Why talk about issues when you can just say that John McCain is George Bush and purposefully and knowingly take his "100 years" remark grossly out of context and say that Republicans don't care if people have breast cancer. Anyone whose mind is even in the slightest way influenced by messages like these is stupid.

If Obama is supposed to win this election without breaking a sweat, why waste time and money on these videos?
2861U2 is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:04 PM   #147
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Sorry to break it to you, but liberals are 10 times as worse and vile as the GOP in spreading garbage like that. Liberals don't want to talk issues. When they talk about issues, they lose. That's why so many groups put out videos like these:



and this:




These videos are despicable, and anyone who appears in these videos is, too. Why talk about issues when you can just say that John McCain is George Bush and purposefully and knowingly take his "100 years" remark grossly out of context and say that Republicans don't care if people have breast cancer. Anyone whose mind is even in the slightest way influenced by messages like these is stupid.

If Obama is supposed to win this election without breaking a sweat, why waste time and money on these videos?
Liberals lose when they talk about the issues?

Ok, let's do talk about the issues, let me know when you are ready?

There is a BIG difference between these ads and the actual VP promising a terrorist attack if they aren't re-elected. Even you have to be able to see the difference.
BVS is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:11 PM   #148
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Sorry to break it to you, but liberals are 10 times as worse and vile as the GOP in spreading garbage like that. Liberals don't want to talk issues. When they talk about issues, they lose.
Sorry to break it to you, but everything you said is merely your (quite obviously biased) opinion, and I dare say that if one were to do a thorough comparison, your opinion would not match up with reality all too well.

I don't recall Al Gore's or John Kerry's campaigns circulating vicious rumors that their opponents fathered illegitimate (and - gasp - interracial!) children, or trumped up their war services and/or injuries in order to receive awards they didn't deserve. McCain at least had the sense to denounce the swiftboating of Kerry. Didn't see a peep out of Bush on that or McCain's shameful treatment in '00. I also don't recall the "liberals" bringing up homosexuality to scare up votes rather than talking about the issues that actually affect Americans.

Not to mention your "evidence" is 2 independently produced bits not affiliated with any campaign, or even the mainstream of the "liberal" movement.
Diemen is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:12 PM   #149
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,257
Local Time: 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
salon.com


Wednesday, June 11, 2008 20:40 EDT
Fox News calls Michelle Obama "Obama's baby mama"

An alert reader wrote in just a little while ago to let us know about something he'd spotted on Fox News Wednesday afternoon. During a segment discussing conservative attacks against Michelle Obama, the wife of presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama, the network described the former as "Obama's baby mama."

I checked, and sure enough, as you can see below, our e-mailer was right. In fact, that description was displayed on screen several times during the segment, which featured anchor Megyn Kelly and conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, an FNC contributor.

A clip of the segment in its entirety is below. You may notice that at one point, Malkin says, "By the way, it's not just Republicans who are criticizing some of her comments, but also statements have been made in the left-leaning blog Salon about her comments." I've searched the site, and I can't find anything like what Malkin is talking about. I've e-mailed Malkin asking for clarification -- if and when she responds, I'll update this post.

RedLasso - Fox

Update: Malkin responded to my e-mail; she says she misspoke and that she meant to refer to Slate, not Salon.

More liberal hypocrisy. When Republicans say something like that, its offensive, yet the woman herself refers to her husband as her baby's daddy, and there is no uproar.

Scandal? Michelle Obama Called Hubby Barack: "My Baby's Daddy"

"When Obama won his Senate seat in 2004, at the victory party, Michelle introduced him to the crowd as 'my baby's daddy.' And she did so rather excitedly. I grabbed the transcript off Nexis." Here's an excerpt from CNN. Blitzer: "We can take a look. Maybe he will and maybe he won't, but she looks like she's about to introduce him. Let's listen in." Michelle Obama, wife of Barack Obama, and in the middle of her glowing, excited introduction of her husband, Barack Obama, she said, "My baby's daddy, Barack Obama! Yeah!" She introduced her husband as "my baby's daddy." Barack Obama, senator-elect, Illinois: "Thank you, Illinois. Thank you. Thank you, Illinois."
2861U2 is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:17 PM   #150
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Pot, kettle, blah blah blah

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
More liberal hypocrisy.
Yes, clearly. I mean, some black people call each other "niggah," so why can't white people describe them that way?
Diemen is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:19 PM   #151
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
More liberal hypocrisy. When Republicans say something like that, its offensive, yet the woman herself refers to her husband as her baby's daddy, and there is no uproar.
Please, please, please stop listening to Rush it's affecting your judgement.

You can't honestly tell me you don't see the difference?!



This post should be really quite embarassing for you given that it was posted right after stating liberals don't talk about the issues.
BVS is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:37 PM   #152
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,257
Local Time: 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Liberals lose when they talk about the issues?

Ok, let's do talk about the issues, let me know when you are ready?

There is a BIG difference between these ads and the actual VP promising a terrorist attack if they aren't re-elected. Even you have to be able to see the difference.
No thanks. That was never the intention of that post. However, based on sentences like this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Ok, let's do talk about the issues, let me know when you are ready?
... I'd be more than happy to help you with your grammar.

Well then, what do you think of the messages in that video saying that Republicans don't care about AIDS (despite the current president doing more for AIDS worldwide than any other), breast cancer, and the other ridiculous claims in those two videos? What do you think of that dopey mother, who seems unaware that her son, when grown, may choose to join the military and want to serve in Iraq? Do you think videos like this (remember, organizations like MoveOn are producing similar ads and videos by the dozens) are honest? Do they help? These videos are laughable. I really don't understand how the actors kept a straight face. Even they must have known what nonsense they were creating.
2861U2 is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:40 PM   #153
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,257
Local Time: 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post

You can't honestly tell me you don't see the difference?!
I wish I knew why Michelle can use the phrase no problem, yet a 10 second banner on a news network is getting so much attention.
2861U2 is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:47 PM   #154
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 08:34 AM
Quote:
Laura Bush told ABC last week the remarks must have been misinterpreted.

"I think she probably meant 'I'm more proud,'" said the first lady, adding that "you have to be very careful in what you say" when you’re campaigning.

"That's one of the things you learn and that's one of the really difficult parts both of running for president, and for being the spouse of the president, and that is everything you say is looked and in many cases misconstrued."

Obama said Wednesday she had sent The First Lady a note that took her “a while” to write, but wouldn’t divulge any details because she didn’t know whether it had been received yet.
" a note that took her “a while” to write"?



How many re-writes did it take to write:

"For the second time in my life. You have made me proud of my country"?
deep is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 06:13 PM   #155
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
I wish I knew why Michelle can use the phrase no problem, yet a 10 second banner on a news network is getting so much attention.

You're kidding right? You still don't see the difference?

You think if a blind person makes a joke about being blind, that you have the right to make the same joke? It's different when it's yourself, you have to be able to see the difference. If not, I can't help you.
BVS is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 06:23 PM   #156
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Well then, what do you think of the messages in that video saying that Republicans don't care about AIDS (despite the current president doing more for AIDS worldwide than any other), breast cancer, and the other ridiculous claims in those two videos? What do you think of that dopey mother, who seems unaware that her son, when grown, may choose to join the military and want to serve in Iraq? Do you think videos like this (remember, organizations like MoveOn are producing similar ads and videos by the dozens) are honest? Do they help? These videos are laughable. I really don't understand how the actors kept a straight face. Even they must have known what nonsense they were creating.
I actually thought the Alex one was pretty creative.

The other one had it's moments. Hyperbole isn't your strong suit, I know.

What do you think about the ad posted in here that was actually paid for by McCain showing Ahmadinejad side by side with Obama?
BVS is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 06:31 PM   #157
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
since you're willing to believe polls in June, here's one for you:

and the fact remains that the only reason that McCain is even viable is because of the great lengths he's gone to separate himself from President Bush, even if the substance doesn't support his claims (though we can think back to the days when McCain was thinking about becoming a Democrat). there was never any question in my mind that McCain was the only viable Republican candidate, and the party wisely did the right thing and nominated the only candidate who would have a fighting chance against the Dems.

but when it comes to Congress, the Republicans are posed for heavy, heavy losses in both houses due to the abject failure of the Bush presidency. even of Obama should somehow lose, McCain will have to work will a Democratic House and Senate.
There is no one here that has put more faith in polls than you. You claimed that the new polls showing McCain 6 points behind after Obama won the nomination would only grow larger as time went on, and would never get any closer than that. But, 3 days later, Obama's lead was cut in half.

In addition, you should take anything from Quinnipiac University polling with a grain of salt.

McCain has always been his own person with views different from Bush but has NEVER seperated himself from Bush on the necessity of removing Saddam from power. Unlike Obama, he is never going to claim that the world would be a safer or better place with Saddam still in power in Iraq. He also supports only withdrawing from Iraq when conditions on the ground warrent it, not because of a silly campaign promise or simply yanking troops out without any consideration for the damage that could cause.

Ironically, you hear more about Obama labling McCain as Bush than you do about McCain distinguishing himself from Bush. When Obama actually gets into specifics, something he rarely does, he talks about the past, while McCain talks about the future.

McCain has a long history of working with Democrats in the Senate, but as the past two years of shown and certainly the Reagan/Bush Sr. years showed, the President does not need for his party to have a majority in the House and Senate to get what he wants.
Strongbow is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 06:34 PM   #158
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Liberals lose when they talk about the issues?

Ok, let's do talk about the issues, let me know when you are ready?

There is a BIG difference between these ads and the actual VP promising a terrorist attack if they aren't re-elected. Even you have to be able to see the difference.
All elections are essentially won and lost on the issues. Its only the losers who claim otherwise.
Strongbow is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 07:20 PM   #159
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
All elections are essentially won and lost on the issues. Its only the losers who claim otherwise.
I do admire your rose colored view of voters.

I could think of a lot of examples where this isn't exactly true, but like I said I do admire this kind of optimism.
BVS is offline  
Old 06-18-2008, 07:24 PM   #160
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
I do admire your rose colored view of voters.

I could think of a lot of examples where this isn't exactly true, but like I said I do admire this kind of optimism.

sounds kind of odd coming from you
with your support for Obama, and his success over Hillary
__________________

deep is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×