US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread #6

[2861U2]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Oh man, stop trying... Obama's not the one you should be embarassed for...

Thanks, I appreciate the input.

I would like to know what is wrong with talking about American exceptionalism? I hear Ronald Reagan talk about America, and then I hear the Messiah talk about America, and it's two completely different things. I've heard Obama (and wife), and McCain to a lesser extent, say far more negative things about America than positive things. I'm sorry, but to me he seems to be running a campaign more in line with "America is deficient. America sucks" than he is with a shining city on a hill. I know the rest of the world loves hearing how America sucks, which is part of why he is so popular over there, but I don't.

[A_Wanderer]

You don't need to whine to get across the point that the God Damn America crowd loves Obama.

[BVS]

What's wrong with being honest about the country you live in and trying to fix that?

Seems like you want another liar.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

Rush said that, too.
"Do you know what Obama did before he left Israel? He stopped in Bethlehem to visit the site where he was born... but he didn't allow any media in there because he didn't want to disturb the animals."

So who stole it? If Jon Stewart is stealing from Rush, well we really are going to hell in a handbasket. And my marriage to Jon is off. And I want 150 K for the pain and suffering of him stealing from Rush.

[MrsSpringsteen]

So being honest about the country's flaws is saying that it sucks?

Say you have a great boyfriend or girlfriend but you can't speak about their flaws and can't even say (or SEE) that they have any, what kind of relationship is that?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

I would like to know what is wrong with talking about American exceptionalism?

what do you mean by "American exceptionalism"?

[anitram]

Originally Posted by deep

The German trip should have involved meeting with head of state and a non photo op visit to the wounded troops.

[/B]

That evil Obama!

BERLIN (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama dropped a plan to visit wounded U.S. troops in Germany on Friday after the Pentagon said such venues should not be used for political campaigns.

The Pentagon in a statement cited longstanding Defense Department policy that prohibits military personnel or facilities from association with partisan political campaigns and elections.

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

I know the rest of the world loves hearing how America sucks, which is part of why he is so popular over there, but I don't.

No, I'm sorry, but you know pretty much nothing about the rest of the world.

[A_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by anitram

That evil Obama!

A U.S. military official tells NBC News they were making preparations for Sen. Barack Obama to visit wounded troops at the Landstuhl Medical Center at Ramstein, Germany on Friday, but "for some reason the visit was called off."

One military official who was working on the Obama visit said because political candidates are prohibited from using military installations as campaign backdrops, Obama's representatives were told, "he could only bring two or three of his Senate staff member, no campaign officials or workers." In addition,
"Obama could not bring any media. Only military photographers would be permitted to record Obama's visit."

The official said "We didn't know why" the request to visit the wounded troops was withdrawn. "He (Obama) was more than welcome. We were all ready for him."

What's not on Obama's schedule... - First Read - msnbc.com

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

what do you mean by "American exceptionalism"?

Wikipedia to the rescue:

American exceptionalism (cf. "exceptionalism") refers to the belief that the United States differs qualitatively from other developed nations, because of its national credo, historical evolution, or distinctive political and religious institutions. The difference is often expressed in American circles as some categorical superiority, to which is usually attached some alleged proof, rationalization or explanation that may vary greatly depending on the historical period and the political context.

[Irvine511]

[Pentagon Confirms That It Told Obama He Couldn't Visit Army Base With Campaign Staff

By Greg Sargent - July 25, 2008, 11:13AM

I've just gotten clarification from the Pentagon on what really happened with regard to Barack Obama's canceled visit to an Army base in Germany, something the McCain campaign has been using to hit Obama since yesterday.

A Pentagon spokesperson confirms to me that because of longstanding Department of Defense regulations, Pentagon officials told Obama aides that he couldn't visit the base with campaign staff. This left Obama with little choice but to cancel the trip, since the plan to visit with campaign aides had been in the works for weeks.

The Obama campaign yesterday announced that it had decided to cancel the visit to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, saying that it would be "inappropriate" to make such a visit as part of a campaign trip.

The McCain camp has nonetheless been using Obama's canceled trip to insinuate that he's anti-troops. "Barack Obama is wrong," McCain spokesperson Brian Rogers said in a statement yesterday. "It is never 'inappropriate' to visit our men and women in the military."

But it turns out that the Pentagon did in fact tell Obama that in this case, it was not only "inappropriate," but against DOD rules, for him to conduct the visit with campaign staff.

"We have longstanding Department of Defense policy in regards to political campaigns and elections," Pentagon spokesperson Elizabeth Hibner told me. "We informed the Obama staff that he was more than welcome to visit as Senator Obama, with Senate staff. However, he could not conduct the visit with campaign staff."

After being told this, the Obama campaign announced yesterday that it had decided it was "inappropriate" to make the visit as part of a campaign trip.

It's unclear how Obama could have made the visit at all, given the Pentagon's directives. No Senate staff was on the trip, and the Obama camp says they received the Pentagon's directives on Wednesday, after they were already abroad.

either way, it just goes to show that Obama hates the troops.

[A_Wanderer]

I just wonder how his campaign could drop the ball on that one, it must need an army of followers to spin it on the interweb.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by A_Wanderer

I just wonder how his campaign could drop the ball on that one, it must need an army of followers to spin it on the interweb.

or to whine about how "unfair" all this coverage is.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

Thanks, I appreciate the input.

I would like to know what is wrong with talking about American exceptionalism? I hear Ronald Reagan talk about America, and then I hear the Messiah talk about America, and it's two completely different things. I've heard Obama (and wife), and McCain to a lesser extent, say far more negative things about America than positive things. I'm sorry, but to me he seems to be running a campaign more in line with "America is deficient. America sucks" than he is with a shining city on a hill. I know the rest of the world loves hearing how America sucks, which is part of why he is so popular over there, but I don't.

so you prefer something like this:

[A_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

or to whine about how "unfair" all this coverage is.

No, apparently they just silence dissent with the race card.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by A_Wanderer

No, apparently they just silence dissent with the race card.

preferable to the "you're a traitor/you hate America/you want us to lose" cards?

[Vincent Vega]

Just a suggestion and feel free to ignore it, but maybe we could start another Iraq debate thread and continue discussion about that topic there so that it becomes more clear again?

[2861U2]

Originally Posted by deep

Obama went to and intentionally used the Holy Lands, the Temple Mount, for photo opportunities for his campaign.



Was it savvy political judgment?

I think it was poor taste.

Canceled a trip to wounded troops in Germany, not a good a photo op ?

Exactly. As soon as Obama learned that he couldn't bring cameras in to see the troops, he decided to bypass them and go workout at the Ritz. He didn't want to see the troops. He wanted a photo op with the troops.

Character matters. And he is losing.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

Exactly. As soon as Obama learned that he couldn't bring cameras in to see the troops, he decided to bypass them and go workout at the Ritz. He didn't want to see the troops. He wanted a photo op with the troops.

Character matters. And he is losing.

Have you not read the explanation? He wasn't allowed. But feel free to ignore...

[2861U2]

Uh... Uh... Uh... By the... uh... way.... uh... has... uh... anyone heard the... uh.. uhh... uhh... bytes of... uh... the Messiah... who uh... seems lost in search of... uh... uhh... a coherent thought?

"Uh, uh, are, uh, uh, uh, um. That's -- that's a bunch -- so -- so let me tick these off. Deh... Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, um, uh. So the issue is not a perception that, uh... Weh, weh, let me put it this way. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, We're -- we're trying to -- you know, we've got a bipartisan group here and -- and -- and, uh, uh, uh, uh, um, uh, uh, uh"

It's probably on youtube. I'll look for it.