US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #8

[MrsSpringsteen]

Polit Tsk Tsk Tsk: Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator

Mine is Bowl Antler Palin

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Cafferty: Obama: Race a factor?
Posted: 01:59 PM ET

From CNN's Jack Cafferty

Race is arguably the biggest issue in this election, and it's one that nobody's talking about.

The differences between Barack Obama and John McCain couldn't be more well-defined. Obama wants to change Washington. McCain is a part of Washington and a part of the Bush legacy. Yet the polls remain close. Doesn't make sense…unless it's race.

Time magazine's Michael Grunwald says race is the elephant in the room. He says Barack Obama needs to tread lightly as he fights back against the McCain-Palin campaign attacks.

don't people who are allegedly smart like cafferty understand that comments like this will only go to drive people away from obama? are there people in this country who won't vote for obama because he's black? yes. but there's a much larger group that doesn't give a crap that he's black, are honestly undecided, and will be quite offended by the implication that if they don't vote for obama they're somehow racist. that idea in and of it's self is a racist.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

don't people who are allegedly smart like cafferty understand that comments like this will only go to drive people away from obama? are there people in this country who won't vote for obama because he's black? yes. but there's a much larger group that doesn't give a crap that he's black, are honestly undecided, and will be quite offended by the implication that if they don't vote for obama they're somehow racist. that idea in and of it's self is a racist.

i disagree. i think people don't want to be told that they are racist, but that doesn't make them not racist.

look at the Rev. Wright freak out. why? because it was an angry black man speaking in front of cheering black people. if you made him and the church white, you wouldn't have nearly the same uproar.

there's no image that's quite feared by some white people as that of the angry black man. Obama talks about this in his book. it's why he doesn't get "angry" or hit McCain "hard." it's because he knows that whites in many parts of the country reflexively freak out when blacks raise their voices.

[MissMoo]

Here's some more polling commentary from FiveThirtyEight.com:

Today's Polls, 9/16

Although the national tracking polls are trending upward for Obama, this set of state polling is a strong one for John McCain:



Ohio, certainly, is a Lean McCain state now. It has been polled extensively over the past week, and all polls but Quinnipiac show McCain with a lead in the neighborhood of 3-4 points. As we're getting into electoral crunch time, the key dynamic to watch is the performance of the three or four tipping point states like Ohio, Virginia, and Colorado, both relative to one another and relative to the national popular vote estimate. Presently, Ohio is polling slightly behind Obama's national numbers, whereas Colorado is polling a point or so ahead. If this dynamic continues, then Ohio will gradually become less important, placing more emphasis on either Obama's IA/NM/CO parlay, or perhaps Virginia, which is one state where he's had some favorable polling of late.

Looking quickly through the rest of the numbers, this set of Rasmussen polling is fairly poor for Obama, although some of that is caused by the fact that Rasmussen just re-weighted its party ID targets, producing a shift of a point or so toward John McCain. (Rasmussen's re-weightings may well be perfectly valid -- my goal is merely to provide context here).

Meanwhile, polling in the New York/New Jersey region has shown some bounce for John McCain. It's probably too late for the McCain campaign to devote serious resources to New Jersey, but it might make fo an interesting target if they did. Then again, most of these polls overlapped with 9/11, and it's possible that there's some sort of 9/11 effect in the region.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i disagree. i think people don't want to be told that they are racist, but that doesn't make them not racist.

look at the Rev. Wright freak out. why? because it was an angry black man speaking in front of cheering black people. if you made him and the church white, you wouldn't have nearly the same uproar.

there's no image that's quite feared by some white people as that of the angry black man. Obama talks about this in his book. it's why he doesn't get "angry" or hit McCain "hard." it's because he knows that whites in many parts of the country reflexively freak out when blacks raise their voices.

i agree with you on a lot of that. but there are a large number of free thinking moderates who could swing in either direction who would be offended at the assertion that if they don't vote for obama they're racist.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

i agree with you on a lot of that. but there are a large number of free thinking moderates who could swing in either direction who would be offended at the assertion that if they don't vote for obama they're racist.

i agree with this as well.

[Irvine511]

jesus to god! how could it be?

Gallup Daily: Obama 47%, McCain 45%

[Dreadsox]

The problem, as I see it, is there may very well be a ceiling that Obama cannot rise above when it comes to public support due to his race. I do not like thinking this, but, if there is a point that he cannot rise above, he may very well have trouble come election day.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

The problem, as I see it, is there may very well be a ceiling that Obama cannot rise above when it comes to public support due to his race. I do not like thinking this, but, if there is a point that he cannot rise above, he may very well have trouble come election day.

i agree.

i think that as Palin continue to lose her new car smell, we're going to get more ads with ever more racial subtext.

i do think there's still a lot of racism in the country. not crazy KKK type racism, probably more "racial resentment" is a better way to put it.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

The problem, as I see it, is there may very well be a ceiling that Obama cannot rise above when it comes to public support due to his race. I do not like thinking this, but, if there is a point that he cannot rise above, he may very well have trouble come election day.

This has been my concern since day one... Conservatives keep saying "he should be way up in the polls", I think this is one of the factors why he'll never take that overwhelming lead.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

jesus to god! how could it be?

Gallup Daily: Obama 47%, McCain 45%

The novelty has begun to wear off... Anyone notice the spike in McCain supprters in FYM once Palin was announced? Now they're gone I wish they had stayed.

[Strongbow]

Clinton fundraiser backs McCain over Obama

By ANN SANNER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A top Hillary Rodham Clinton fundraiser threw her support behind Republican John McCain on Wednesday, saying he will lead the country in a centrist fashion and accusing the Democrats of becoming too extreme.

"I believe that Barack Obama, with MoveOn.org and Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean, has taken the Democratic Party — and they will continue to — too far to the left," Lynn Forester de Rothschild said. "I'm not comfortable there."

Rothschild is also a member of the Democratic National Committee's Platform Committee. She said she would be stepping down from her position on the committee but will not switch political parties.

She praised McCain for working with Democrats to pass legislation and for standing up to President Bush on the Iraq war.

"I just ask, who has Barack Obama ever stood up to? And that troubles me a lot," she said.

Rothschild also disputed Obama's argument that a McCain administration would be an extension of Bush's presidency. Democrats cite McCain's own account of having voted in support of Bush's policies 90 percent of the time.

She said the Arizona senator has broken with Bush to support funding for stem-cell research and to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

"It is the classic cheap shot. Just not true," she said.

Rothschild said she was also excited by the prospect of a woman being in the White House, even though she and Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin disagree on issues. The Alaska governor opposes abortion except in the case of a threat to the mother's life. Rothschild said she supports abortion rights.

"I believe that the McCain-Palin government will be a centrist government," Rothschild said. "It's not going to be an ideological government."

Rothschild is a member of the DNC's Democrats Abroad chapter and splits her time living in London and New York. She was one of Clinton's top fundraisers, bringing in more than $100,000 for her presidential campaign. She built a multimillion-dollar telecommunications company before marrying international banker Sir Evelyn de Rothschild.

Rothschild said she has not discussed her support for McCain with Clinton.

"I'm sure she is not pleased with what I'm doing today," she said. "But you know what? I have to do what I believe in."

Clinton fundraiser backs McCain over Obama - Yahoo! News

[hiphop]

Matthew Yglesias � Rothschilds Against Elitism

Rothschilds Against Elitism

Irony truly is dead as Lynn Forester de Rothschild endorses John McCain on anti-elitism grounds:

“This is a hard decision for me personally because frankly I don’t like him,” she said of Obama in an interview with CNN’s Joe Johns. “I feel like he is an elitist. I feel like he has not given me reason to trust him.”

On an unrelated note, the stakes have rarely been higher in an election for extremely rich people than they are in this one. Barack Obama’s tax proposals don’t raise a ton of new net revenue and, as a consequence, have tended to be viewed as pretty moderate. But one reason they don’t raise all that much net revenue is that he’s offering large tax cuts to the majority of people and those offset the substantial tax hike he’s proposing on the rich. Justin Wolfers has a good chart on this:

The difference for middle class taxpayers here is real, but for people making above the national median income (which is to say most people who are working full-time) it tends to be a pretty small difference. But for people earning below the national median the gap is a lot bigger and for extremely high earners the gap is huge. These facts haven’t gotten much play, but if you’re making over $600,000 a year and especially if you’re making over $2.8 million a year you have an extremely strong incentive to back McCain.

[hiphop]

Ta-Nehisi Coates (September 17, 2008) - She is who we thought she was

Matt, examining Lady de Rothchilds defection to McCain, notes that irony must be truly dead. "Lady" de Rothchilds main reason for not endorsing McCain? Obama is an elitist. More accurately elitism is dead. When a gazillionaire who insists on being IDed as "Lady" can call a black dude from the South Side, whose mother had him as a teenager an elitist, the word has no meaning.

[financeguy]

So, a wealthy upper class elitist with a surname that readily identifies her as a wealthy upper class elitist, backs McCain.

This can only be good for Obama, frankly.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by financeguy

So, a wealthy upper class elitist with a surname that readily identifies her as a wealthy upper class elitist, backs McCain.

This can only be good for Obama, frankly.

what's an elitist?

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

what's an elitist?

How do you mean?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by financeguy

How do you mean?

it's a term i hear thrown about quite a bit, but i really don't know what it means.

[Bluer White]

Originally Posted by Utoo

Cutting taxes on big business didn't "grow" jobs, either.

Thankfully Senator Obama has continued to backpedal on his tax policies since the general election campaign started. The article below mentions income tax but he has also moderated on capital gains taxes lately.

WASHINGTON — Democrat Barack Obama says he would delay rescinding President Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy.

Nevertheless, Obama has no plans to extend the Bush tax cuts beyond their expiration date, as Republican John McCain advocates. Instead, Obama wants to push for his promised tax cuts for the middle class, he said in a broadcast interview aired Sunday.

"Even if we're still in a recession, I'm going to go through with my tax cuts," Obama said. "That's my priority."

What about increasing taxes on the wealthy?

"I think we've got to take a look and see where the economy is. I mean, the economy is weak right now," Obama said on "This Week" on ABC. "The news with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, I think, along with the unemployment numbers, indicates that we're fragile."

Obama: Recession Could Delay Rescinding Bush Tax Cuts

[Irvine511]

pragmatic flexibility

just what we need after 8 years of rigid ideology.