G. W. Bush may be a good prez but I think he's a nutcase some of the time

[jesseu2]

just watch SNL do parodies off him. some of his speeches seem pointless. IMO, Bill Clinton was a better prez besides the scandal. I like a democrat's mind better than a republican's. therefore, i'm a democrat.

[Matthew_Page2000]

Yes, but he's a "unificator" not a divider.

Hee, hee.
MAP

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by jesseu2:
just watch SNL do parodies off him. some of his speeches seem pointless. IMO, Bill Clinton was a better prez besides the scandal. I like a democrat's mind better than a republican's. therefore, i'm a democrat.

Well, if you prefer a president who cheats on his wife by having sexual relations with an intern half his age and then lies about it to a federal grand jury, and sells military secrets to the Chinese; if you prefer him over a president who "fumbles" his words in speeches, that's your decision. But for me, I'll take the word fumbler any day.

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
Yes, but he's a "unificator" not a divider.

Hee, hee.
MAP

Why does Dubya claim to be a uniter, not a divider?

He doesn't know how to divide!

[Lemonite]

80's, I agree with you as always,

And to the rest of ya'll yambags, Give it up.. Bush Won the Election! The Media had their independent vote count, And not to mention, that The supreme court decided in favor of Bush.. Try finding something more enjoyable to read, some Drunk stories of FizzingWhizzbees walking down the street flaunting a Mangina or Matthew Page Explaining to the rest of us why he would ever put the phrase 'Hee Hee' in a post.. Never do that again... We're not a bunch of gigglicious girls.

[melon]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Well, if you prefer a president who cheats on his wife by having sexual relations with an intern half his age and then lies about it to a federal grand jury, and sells military secrets to the Chinese; if you prefer him over a president who "fumbles" his words in speeches, that's your decision. But for me, I'll take the word fumbler any day.

How amusing.

1) Politicians and presidents of both parties have had illicit affairs. My favorite politician of the last decade would have to be Newt Gingrich, who divorced, I believe, two of his wifes on their death beds. Regardless, politicians are all morally corrupt. If you're looking for a religious leader, I would go elsewhere.

2) "Sells military secrets to the Chinese." Care to substantiate? But lest we forget a certain president, whom shall remain nameless, who was entrenched in the Iran-Contra scandal.

3) I still don't trust G.W. He is repeating the same steps as his father:

a) Starts out as a lukewarm president.
b) Gets involved in a war that rapidly boosts popularity.
c) War begins to end, but still loses their main objective.
d) Ignores the domestic issues completely.
e) Refuses to acknowledge a recession.

And, what's worse, G.W. even shares much of the same cabinet and advisors as his father. God help us all...

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[adam's_mistress]

Aw look, yet another thread in Free Your Mind where if the word "democrat" is spoken in the first post, everyone on opposite ends of the spectrum has to toot their horn to get a word in edgewise. And let's bring up the scandal again, that's really pertinent to the issues currently at hand. Oh, and let's talk about the Florida votes one more time. That's really pertienent to the issues at hand too! Give me a break. Funny as a nation (not just the folks here) who are dealing with the aftermath of that terrible day that should never have happened, some people still insist on being divisive when in actuality, unity should be key in keeping our chin up in these times.

Melon hit the nail on the head: "Regardless, politicians are all morally corrupt. If you're looking for a religious leader, I would go elsewhere." Or if you are looking for superheroes, go to a comic book store.

And another thing I'll throw in before I get flamed (don't worry, I'm done with this thread so flame me all you want.) Why is it when someone votes either Republican or Democrat or Independant or what have you, then that person always sticks themselves with a political label? Surely there are pros and cons to every side of a political debate. Why not be an individual who votes for the best man or woman he sees fit, regardless of political labellings? Why limit yourself by claiming you're one or the other? Never quite understood that...

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by melon:
How amusing.

1) Politicians and presidents of both parties have had illicit affairs. My favorite politician of the last decade would have to be Newt Gingrich, who divorced, I believe, two of his wifes on their death beds. Regardless, politicians are all morally corrupt. If you're looking for a religious leader, I would go elsewhere.

2) "Sells military secrets to the Chinese." Care to substantiate? But lest we forget a certain president, whom shall remain nameless, who was entrenched in the Iran-Contra scandal.

3) I still don't trust G.W. He is repeating the same steps as his father:

a) Starts out as a lukewarm president.
b) Gets involved in a war that rapidly boosts popularity.
c) War begins to end, but still loses their main objective.
d) Ignores the domestic issues completely.
e) Refuses to acknowledge a recession.

And, what's worse, G.W. even shares much of the same cabinet and advisors as his father. God help us all...
Melon

1)Melon, this conversation was NEVER about anyone other than Clinton and GW, so your "all politicians are corrupt" and "look at Gingrich" arguments are relevant. The original post was that GW's speeches seem a little bit off, and that he/she likes Clinton better. I simply responded with facts comparing the two. this has nothing to do with any other politician.

2)Yes, i do care to elaborate. China has been stealing secrets from the USA for quite sometime, perhaps since the 70s. Here's the difference. Evidence points to the fact that the Clinton administration knew about it, while the other presidents did not. Clinton is accused of granting cover to PRC (People's Republic of China) reps who contributed to his political campaigns. And don't forgot the illegal contributions Gore recieved from Chinese monks, who are also accused of being connected with the PRC.

Here are some links:
http://www.claremont.org/publications/boychuk3.cfm

an important quote from the above:
�What's different is that Clinton and his campaign have given direct access and cover to those Chinese operatives willing to pay for his re-election and soft money commercials. In other words, the Chinese weren't part of the Carter, Reagan or Bush campaign teams.�
http://www.losthorizons.com/comment/...bill_clint.htm

and here is a link to the Cox Report itself: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house/hr105851/

this, from the overview:
�Agents tied to the PRC's military industries who have illegally provided political contributions may have used these contributions to gain access to U.S. military and commercial technology.�

3C) There is a HUGE difference between the Gulf War and the war against Terror. George Senior had Saddam on the run and didn't go as far as he could. GW is pursuing the taliban leader and bin Laden still, even though the Taliban government is already out. That was always the objective. He has not lost that objective. It ain't over. bin Laden may have temporarily escaped us, but he can't run forever. Please remember that Bush said this would be a long war.

3D)Ignores domestic issues completely? Now come on...is tax relief a foreign issue? Is that what he's doing at this moemnt, pushing for tax relief for Sweden?

[Anthony]

From a foreign policy standpoint, President Clinton was a whole lot better then Mr.Bush, who I still despise - the man is a selfish fool who is only interested in one thing; money. Atleast Clinton never abandoned the Kyoto Protocol.

Oh sure, you can accuse Clinton of being a bad president for his affair, but if you ask me, what goes on in the man's bedroom has nothing to do with the way he runs a country.

And another thing, this whole 'tax relief' and 'tax cuts' the Republicans keep talking about is just as ridiculous as when the Conservatives in Britain talk about 'tax cuts', they mean 'tax cuts for the rich and the rest can go stuff themselves'. I knew it was too good to be true when I heard of the Republicans cutting taxes (which, I agree, is the right thing to do, but in order for it to work it has to be applied to EVERYONE, not just the rich cream of the crop).

Forgive me, but your ex-president Bill Clinton represented your country far better than your current president does and looks like ever will; no one despised Clinton as much as they despise Bush, except perhaps Mr. Milosovich.

Ant.

[Discoteque]

Strategery.

I can't help but laugh at the parodies, but I really do respect and admire G-dub. For all the stuff he's had to go through already, and the way he's been leading our country...I think a man of lesser moral fiber would have had a hard time with it.

I agree with 80sU2...I was never so happy as the day the Clintons left office. I don't care how "great" he was for the country, and how much he was loved and admired by the Hollywood community and others, Clinton made my skin crawl the whole time he was in office. After the whole Monica thing, I couldn't even stand to *look* at the guy when he was on TV (which was a lot!)

Yep, give me a 'fumblicator' any day.

Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
Yes, but he's a "unificator" not a divider.

Hee, hee.
MAP

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by Anthony:
From a foreign policy standpoint, President Clinton was a whole lot better then Mr.Bush, who I still despise - the man is a selfish fool who is only interested in one thing; money. Atleast Clinton never abandoned the Kyoto Protocol.

___________________
LEMONITE: The Kyoto protocol is a piece of sh#t.. It called for everyone but CHINA???? HELLO.. yes i did just write hello.. China is one of the biggest threats to our nation.. If they're not going to be held to the same standards in emissions as we are, that just gives them an opportunity to industrialize up the #$$ and then create nukes and have us bend over as they fire them one after another...
___________________
Anthony:Oh sure, you can accuse Clinton of being a bad president for his affair, but if you ask me, what goes on in the man's bedroom has nothing to do with the way he runs a country.
__________________
LEMONITE:
It sets an example.. It has a huge influence on how people view him.. which in turn reflects how he runs the country.. He had no respect from any of the foreign leaders.. which in turn, he did never get all he wanted from them.. .. It truly does affect how he runs a country... Now if this were a black and white world, then that'd be a different story.. except there would be no asians...(it's funny.. think about it)

______________________
ANTHONY:
And another thing, this whole 'tax relief' and 'tax cuts' the Republicans keep talking about is just as ridiculous as when the Conservatives in Britain talk about 'tax cuts', they mean 'tax cuts for the rich and the rest can go stuff themselves'. I knew it was too good to be true when I heard of the Republicans cutting taxes (which, I agree, is the right thing to do, but in order for it to work it has to be applied to EVERYONE, not just the rich cream of the crop).


_____________________

LEMONITE:
Everyone who paid income taxes got tax relief...


\
_________________
ANTHONY: Forgive me, but your ex-president Bill Clinton represented your country far better than your current president does and looks like ever will; no one despised Clinton as much as they despise Bush, except perhaps Mr. Milosovich.


-________________

LEMONITE:
Hahaha.. Nigga Please. explain yourself... Ya'll only liked Clinton cuz he would bend over for your countries and their leaders.. He was an idiot.. He screwed up the entire middle east.. you think it's this escalated cus of nothing?.. It's cuz he was searching.. read me.. searching for a legacy and he wanted to make peace in the middle east his legacy.. in the process he managed to stir it alll up into what we're seeing now...

[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-06-2002).]

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Be thankful that USA has the right leaders when we need them. Reagan during cold war.. bush in gulf war. w right now...

Have you ever looked at Reagan's foreign policy regarding Central America during the 1980s? A good example is Guatemala, where the government attempted to implement programs of land reform which would have affected the United Fruit Company, a US owned business. The US backed a coup in that country and it's estimated that over 150,000 people were killed in its aftermath. That's just one example though, there are numerous other examples of US foreign policy having a disastrous impact on the citizens of, for instance, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama and Haiti. Just a few things you might be interested in about America's leaders during the Cold War.

{And I'm stil waiting to find out what this mangina thingy I'm supposedly to be drunkenly flaunting is }

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
Have you ever looked at Reagan's foreign policy regarding Central America during the 1980s? A good example is Guatemala, where the government attempted to implement programs of land reform which would have affected the United Fruit Company, a US owned business. The US backed a coup in that country and it's estimated that over 150,000 people were killed in its aftermath. That's just one example though, there are numerous other examples of US foreign policy having a disastrous impact on the citizens of, for instance, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Panama and Haiti. Just a few things you might be interested in about America's leaders during the Cold War.

{And I'm stil waiting to find out what this mangina thingy I'm supposedly to be drunkenly flaunting is }

Thanks for the central american info.. I was mostly referring to the nuclear missiles that we had aimed directly down our throats by Russia.. To Us.. that was a more dire concern.. yes.. yes.. the selfish american, but truly, our existence is what I was directly mentioning.. as opposed to having say. Jimmy carter, who would invite all to gather around a bible study group in which he would be immediatly radiated by a nuke... Or Perhaps.. A Russian Bottle of Vodka smashed over his head.. But ah yes.. the Mangina.. Imagine if you were a Man.. but all of a sudden you weren't one in the 'place that counts'.. Haha. (Insert smiley face with a HUUUUGE shit eating grin on it)... it's funny if you think about it.. somewhat homosexual to see it done and get a laugh out of it, but hey.. when you're in college.. you see some weird stuff.. But thanks for the info fizzing, I'm in the process of looking that stuff up.... But yah, i was referring to the Russians, in which case I do think you'd agree with me.. that he knew what to do when it needed to be done....

And Just to give a bit of bipartisanship.. or is it partisanship.. i forget.. but Take roosevelt during teh depression.. Sadly that general attitude has infected those who don't have jobs now (the expectation of welfare) but can get them, but during the depression, roosevelt knew what had to be done when it needed to be..

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
I was mostly referring to the nuclear missiles that we had aimed directly down our throats by Russia..

During the 1980s? What incidents are you referring to specifically?

Just out of curiousity, what is your opinion of the way JFK dealt with the Cuban Missile Crisis? I'm just curious because you seem to prefer the Republican presidents (and I apologise in advance if I'm wrong) and I wondered whether you felt that a Democratic president had been successful in his response to that situation.

[Matthew_Page2000]

Originally posted by Lemonite:

Jimmy carter, who would invite all to gather around a bible study group in which he would be immediatly radiated by a nuke... Or Perhaps.. A Russian Bottle of Vodka smashed over his head..

Ah, yes. Jimmy Carter as the wimp and Ronald Reagan as the American Hero. My favorite example of the difference between reality and politics. In WWII Reagan dodged the draft by working with the WSO. During a war in which millions upon millions of Americans signed up and fought for our countries very existance (including my Dad and both my uncles) Ronald Reagan and Bob Hope were their to entertain our boys with their clever schtick. Thanks Ronny. Your country will never forget your sacrifice.
Jimmy Carter voluntarily joined the navy and was a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE COMMANDER. (obviously this was after WWII.)
But somehow Carter is the wimp and Reagan the courageous American hero. Let's get it straight folks: Carter served our country bravely in the military. He commanded a nuclear submarine, arguably as dangerous and important a role as anyone can serve in the military. Ronald Reagan occasionally played military officers in movies made on Hollywood backlots.
I suspect Carter knew a hell of a lot more about our nuclear capabilities and the possible ramifications of using them than Reagan ever did.

Sheesh.

MAP

[Matthew_Page2000]

Moreover, why is it Ronald Reagans spirituality and religious principles are forever being referenced by the Christian right but Jimmy Carter's deeply felt spiritual beliefs are a source of contempt?

MAP

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:

Sheesh.

Loquacious up the Hiz-Ass eh?!

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by melon:


Regardless, politicians are all morally corrupt.

that is an absolute fact.

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Try finding something more enjoyable to read, some Drunk stories of FizzingWhizzbees walking down the street flaunting a Mangina

What in the world is a Mangina? If I'm going to be flaunting something, I at least need to know what it is. That said, if you want drunken stories, you'll have to buy me a drink first ;-)

(Jokes aside, I don't mean to offend anyone. Bush certainly isn't one of my favourite politicians but I know other people have different opinions and I absolutely respect that.)

[Lemonite]

Melon Melon Melon. Have you not been paying attention to the News .. excuse me.. the news is crap, but to what Bush and his 'fellas' have been saying....

Originally posted by melon:
How amusing.

1) Politicians and presidents of both parties have had illicit affairs. My favorite politician of the last decade would have to be Newt Gingrich, who divorced, I believe, two of his wifes on their death beds. Regardless, politicians are all morally corrupt. If you're looking for a religious leader, I would go elsewhere.

2) "Sells military secrets to the Chinese." Care to substantiate? But lest we forget a certain president, whom shall remain nameless, who was entrenched in the Iran-Contra scandal.

3) I still don't trust G.W. He is repeating the same steps as his father:

a) Starts out as a lukewarm president.
b) Gets involved in a war that rapidly boosts popularity.

It is because a war was necessary.. He's not just jumpin in to get a 'high approval rating', As opposed to our last president, I highly doubt that W is sitting in bed at night getting a hardon over the fact that he has a chance to raise his popularity by just jumping into a war.. this is a necessity.. I'll make this same issue statement over those who disgustingly state that bush is only using the war for 'pushing his agenda'.. but that's another thread... A coincidence.. (spelled right?).. but Be thankful that USA has the right leaders when we need them. Reagan during cold war.. bush in gulf war. w right now...


c) War begins to end, but still loses their main objective.

Have you again, not been paying attention to bush or rumsfeld.. This war is nowhere near from ending... This is just the first phase, and dont' think for a minute that they're just gonna quit looking for omar or bin laden, they've said it will take time.. years perhaps.. Check the news a bit more often.. This war is far from over...


d) Ignores the domestic issues completely.

This is very far off.. Bush Has been trying for the past year to get his economic stimulus packages through.. to take care of this recession that clinton created by messing with what reagan and bush had implemented... He was just Shot down by the Democrats on his 'stimulus' package that would help the economy.. hence.. paying attention to the domestic issues.. Also, He's been trying to increase jobs.. by increasing investments by companies, .. Whereas teh Democrats want to give out more welfare, more unemployment.. which is not going to work, because it won't be long lasting.. Bush has been trying to Get More jobs out there, any non action is not due to Bush's 'Ignoring'.. He's been pushing for economic packages since day one, and hasn't let that up.. even in the face of this war...


e) Refuses to acknowledge a recession.


Christ.. He's been saying there was a recession from even before he was elected.. This isn't his fault, Why do you think the economy is such a big priority.. The economy is already beginning to take a turn for the better, in a year or so it shoudl be back up, but Bush has never denied that there was a recession, He was stating back last november.. over a year ago.. that the economy was turnign down, and that he had a plan to fix it.. but he's being mucked up by daschle et al who are shooting down what he wants to do to fix the the economic problem...

And, what's worse, G.W. even shares much of the same cabinet and advisors as his father. God help us all...


This is truly an ignorant statemnt.. Colin powell could be president if he wanted.. He's one of the smartest men on the planet and in his area of work, he's the best... Rumsfeld is pure genius.. Chaney.. same thing.. These guys know what they are doing.. they've been here before.. Tell me.. Do you see Madeline Albright being in Afghanistan giving the same speeches, demanding the sam ehtings.. She'd be decapitated.. i mean, she was booed in Ohio state.. Bush's advisors are some of the best in the world, and they have character, and have a genuine interest in making this country better..


Melon

God Help you, or may I say, Screwtape help you