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Old 09-07-2002, 02:44 AM   #21
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Thanks fizzing for saying what i didnt want to say because it seems better to ignore then put fuel on the fire.
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Old 09-07-2002, 04:39 AM   #22
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Originally posted by Spyplane

And if you knew anything about "the rest of my country", you would realize that most of the people here are in support of doing what is best for us and not a bunch of politically motivated wackos whose main goal is to de-power and regress the United States (not united states).

Yo, yo, this is our main goal. You know why? Because we hate every country that starts with "U" (except of Uruguay).

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Old 09-07-2002, 10:19 AM   #23
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Does anyone know for sure that global warming is not high on Bush's list of priorities? Has he ever said as much? Do his policies reflect that? Someone said somewhere that while he may not be all tied up with the Kyoto agreement, he still has other plans for addressing the issue.

Or is all this based on the fact he was absent from this meeting?

Might want to add Howard to the list of leaders to bash too. He was absent, and if this logic follows, then he doesn't give a shit either....we got lots of farting cows here in Aus. Bad for the environment they are.
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Old 09-08-2002, 03:11 AM   #24
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Well three things that i know of with bush and the enviroment is that he wants to drill in Alaska, which will hurt to envroment and Canada's enviroment, he also want to chop many trees down in Colorado so there wone be so many fires??, and he wont sign the Kyoto agreement. Theres three. And Angela i thought aussieland wasnt signing the treaty either?
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Old 09-08-2002, 04:30 AM   #25
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Well the drilling in Alaska doesn't sound good. I dont know anything about it so cant really comment. As for Colorado and the chopping down of trees...Well, mass deforrestation is bad. But bushfires are horrendous. If he has the aim of decreasing the numbers of fires, that can only be good, in intention. It is something that has to be done in areas that are densley populated with trees. Chopping them down like I said is not what I would call the best option by far, infact, I dont agree with it. It would surely be a lot better to get a good back burn system going, build fire trails around the perimetres, spend the dollars maintaining them, then everyone wins. You keep your bushland, and keep the numbers of fires to a minimum.

Lastly, Australia. Tis true bonoman, we aren't signing. I think we should, but I posted that to kind of show how unfair it is to direct all this anger toward Bush, when other leaders are also not signing. I'm not inviting everyone to have their go at Aus, do it if you like as we really do deserve it, but I just think its a little biased to be taking the easy option of using this as another attack on the US pres. If its not an easy option attack on Bush, then why exclude my PM from this? Ya know?

I guess no one really cares about the leader of my country, yet everyone has an opinion on Bush. He shouldnt be singled out I dont think. It does appear to be a bit too convenient. Not writing this to anyone in particular either, or you in reply BM, everyone has the right to speak their mind in here. Just finding it, odd is all.
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Old 09-08-2002, 08:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo


Global warming and genetically-modified crops
Well I'm no fan of GM crops either, but you think global warming is a hoax too?
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Old 09-08-2002, 08:23 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I guess no one really cares about the leader of my country, yet everyone has an opinion on Bush. He shouldnt be singled out I dont think. It does appear to be a bit too convenient. Not writing this to anyone in particular either, or you in reply BM, everyone has the right to speak their mind in here. Just finding it, odd is all.
I think maybe the reason so many people have an opinion on Bush is that he's the leader of a country which has such a huge impact on the world right now. If he's planning a massive war against Iraq, which the majority of the world don't want, then it's to be expected that he'll receive a lot of criticism.

Personally I think Tony Blair deserves a lot more criticism than he's getting for giving his support to Bush despite the wishes of the people in his own country.
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Old 09-08-2002, 11:04 AM   #28
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Personally I think Tony Blair deserves a lot more criticism than he's getting

I disagree.

He deserves A LOT more than mere criticism. He deserves to be pushed out of office.

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Old 09-08-2002, 11:13 AM   #29
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Originally posted by Anthony

I disagree.

He deserves A LOT more than mere criticism. He deserves to be pushed out of office.

Ant.
Actually I agree with you - my statement about Blair didn't go nearly far enough.
Looks like he's going to get massive criticism from the TUC at this week's conference - I've heard Bob Crow and Dave Prentis on TV saying their unions are resolutely against a war. ASLEF and the RMT have put in a motion opposing it. And I think he can expect basically the same reception from Labour Party conference later this month. Do you think him being forced out of office is likely to happen?
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Old 09-08-2002, 11:40 AM   #30
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Well, Fizzing, I certainly hope so.

Had this been the Tories, an entire school of Pirhana fish would be there waiting to rip the leader into shreds, and an entire flock of vultures would be hovering over the body afterwards... exactly what happened to dear old Maggie Thatcher. Thats how John Major got into power, remember?

However, this is the Labour Party, unfortunately. Bleeding heart liberals, politically correct fools and castrated males are the main constituents of this political phenomenom. Long gone are the days of Tony Benn (that remarkable statesman, that formidable genius) and John Smith; now all we have is the meekish Jack Straw and the Draconian Blunket, a man I once admired.

There is hope, though, in Gordon Brown. Many have speculated the tension between he and Tony Blair, and everyone knows that he is the brains of the operation. Also, he is anti-Euro, and is therefore already a contender for the Euro-nervous British population. I have always admired the man's wisdom, his prudence and his sheer intelligence.

Is he as charismatic as Blair? I am sorry to reply in the negative. He is better than Blair, but not as recognisable, it is for this reason alone that I may have to answer your question in the negative - there may be no replacement strong enough. Who they gonna get, Prescott? Lol.

You see, save for a few exceptions, Tony Blair has created a weak cabinet who will basically do what he says, therefore there is no really STRONG contender for Blair's place. There is no drive, no ambition, and no one strong enough to kick Blair out.

However, I do wish it. Oh, what I would give to see our Chancellor be the Prime Minister.

As far as I'm concerned, Blair has betrayed himself, his party, his government and perhaps most importantly - his people.

If he does NOT take the proper advice, he will go down in history as the man who said yes to the President of the US,. and no to his very own people.

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Old 09-08-2002, 11:43 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
As for Colorado and the chopping down of trees...Well, mass deforrestation is bad. But bushfires are horrendous. If he has the aim of decreasing the numbers of fires, that can only be good, in intention. It is something that has to be done in areas that are densley populated with trees. Chopping them down like I said is not what I would call the best option by far, infact, I dont agree with it. It would surely be a lot better to get a good back burn system going, build fire trails around the perimetres, spend the dollars maintaining them, then everyone wins. You keep your bushland, and keep the numbers of fires to a minimum.
The problem with deforrestation is that the large and old trees, those that lumbers want to chop down for their wood, are not the most dangerous aspect regarding forrest fires. It is the small bushes (note no use of initial capital here ) at the bottom of the forrest that are the danger. They burn better than the big trees and they burn faster/sooner. Unfortunately, they are not suitable for the lumber industry, but as Bush made some election campaign promises to those 'lumber' states then this would be a nice opportunity for him to fulfill the promise. (Note to prevent rapid escalation of party politics: no, I don't know whether Gore also made such a promise (and I think we never will know). He might have done the same, he might not, we don't know. But Bush did and he's acting to it).

Who cares about the environment anyway?

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Old 09-08-2002, 11:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
Well, Fizzing, I certainly hope so.

Had this been the Tories, an entire school of Pirhana fish would be there waiting to rip the leader into shreds, and an entire flock of vultures would be hovering over the body afterwards... exactly what happened to dear old Maggie Thatcher. Thats how John Major got into power, remember?


I remember it well...in fact I may never forget the "treachery with a smile" speech. ::evil grin::

Quote:
Long gone are the days of Tony Benn (that remarkable statesman, that formidable genius) and John Smith; now all we have is the meekish Jack Straw and the Draconian Blunket, a man I once admired.


Did you see Tony Benn on his 'town-hall meeting' tour? I can't stand David Blunkett...the policies he's brought in as home secretary, especially about refugees, are so draconian that even Tory home secretaries have admitted they'd have been sacked for suggesting such policies. There are still some excellent MPs in the party though - Dianne Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn, Alice Mahon to name just a few. It's just the Blair is so determined to exercise absolute control over the party that voices of opposition are so often ignored.

I'm not Brown's biggest fan, but I do agree that he would be a far better leader than Blair. I dread to even think of John "well of course he does, he's the Prime Minister" Prescott as PM. There was even talk of Blunkett replacing him as party leader, which is an even more frightening thought.

Quote:
You see, save for a few exceptions, Tony Blair has created a weak cabinet who will basically do what he says, therefore there is no really STRONG contender for Blair's place. There is no drive, no ambition, and no one strong enough to kick Blair out.


Who do you see as the exceptions to that? I know Robin Cook and Clare Short have voiced "opposition" to the war, but neither really give the impression they intend to take any kind of action on the issue. But while there is little opposition within the Cabinet, there is clear opposition from the party as a whole, maybe that can have an impact on Blair.
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Old 09-08-2002, 12:07 PM   #33
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But while there is little opposition within the Cabinet, there is clear opposition from the party as a whole, maybe that can have an impact on Blair.
That may be in fact true, however, I believe that the opposition needs to be personified. It needs a figure head who has both the ambition and the drive to oppose Blair, and I don't just mean Clare SHort (who was one of the exceptions as identified by you), who's idea of opposition is resigning. I mean someone with enough Tory Backstabbing to remove Blair. I don't see this sort of muscle in the Party. I do hope, though, that you are right.

Time and time again I have said that the Left is too weak, hence the imminent rise of the Right.

I did see Tony Benn, it was my great pleasure to do so. He epitomises nearly EVERYTHING that I believe in politically (though he is a 'bit' too extreme in the removal of Capitalism for my liking - I believe it should be controlled, not removed). Its a shame that the only people with any sense, like Tony Benn and Mo Mowlam (a lady I really admire) are now no longer involved as they have lost faith in 'New' Labour.

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Old 09-08-2002, 12:21 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Anthony


That may be in fact true, however, I believe that the opposition needs to be personified. It needs a figure head who has both the ambition and the drive to oppose Blair, and I don't just mean Clare SHort (who was one of the exceptions as identified by you), who's idea of opposition is resigning. I mean someone with enough Tory Backstabbing to remove Blair. I don't see this sort of muscle in the Party. I do hope, though, that you are right.


I see what you're saying, it doesn't seem as though any of those who oppose Blair really have the ambition to become leader - they perhaps see their opposition as best expressed by speaking out against Blair as opposed to an attempt to replace him.

Quote:
Time and time again I have said that the Left is too weak, hence the imminent rise of the Right.


Exactly. As soon as the left fails to take a strong position on an issue the void they leave is filled by the right-wingers. You only have to look at how right-wing Blunkett's asylum policies are and the way parties like the BNP have taken advantage to see this. Not to mention the massive defeat of Jospin's Socialist Party in France, who barely had a 'socialist' party to their name in their last five years in power.
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Old 09-08-2002, 01:46 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony

If he does NOT take the proper advice, he will go down in history as the man who said yes to the President of the US
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Which is enough to run him out of office?

Of course, I forgot that we are the Great Satan

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Old 09-08-2002, 01:59 PM   #36
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z_edge;

Please, I implore you to read one of my earlier comments. It is NOT his allegiance with Bush and the US that bothers me most of all, what I'm complaining about, is his total disregard for the rule of law, Parliamentary procedure and outright democracy. Thats why it said that he will go down in history as the man who said Yes to the US AND SAID NO TO HIS OWN NATION. There, right there. I said it again and in capitals so that you can understand what I'm saying; its not his pro-American sentiments that bother me, its his seemingly Anti-British ones.

What I stated again and again, and then only to have Fizzing expand on that, is that 71% of Britain's population don't want this war. 90% of his own Labour government don't want this war. BRITAIN does not want this war.

Hence, since this IS a democracy (and democracy is what you're fighting for, right?) it effectively means that he has no right to overrule such democracy. He has NO RIGHT to put Bush, or America for that matter, before his own country. It doesnt matter to me if the US is Satan or Saint Peter, Blair's obligation is to Britain, not to the US.

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Old 09-08-2002, 02:28 PM   #37
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Originally posted by z edge


Which is enough to run him out of office?

Of course, I forgot that we are the Great Satan

The next time you litter this forum with pictures like the one above, bombs, planes, etc... I will see to it that you lose that priviledge. You're becoming nothing more than a troll.

If you can not discuss topics without just trying to upset and piss people off... perhaps you should not be posting here. You've got an MO, and it's getting worse.
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Old 09-08-2002, 04:45 PM   #38
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Originally posted by Elvis


The next time you litter this forum with pictures like the one above, bombs, planes, etc... I will see to it that you lose that priviledge. You're becoming nothing more than a troll.

If you can not discuss topics without just trying to upset and piss people off... perhaps you should not be posting here. You've got an MO, and it's getting worse.
Excuse me?

I am a troll?

I have given 7 years of my life in service to YOUR country for YOUR safety and the safety of YOUR family. I have been in 2 buildings that have been blown up by terrorists, and I currently work in a facility with my continued service that is a terrorist target.

I have a sister and her new husband who both serve the military, and many cousins who do as well.

I would have gladly given my life for you or any other American to make our country safer. I have had a lot of remorse in my own heart that I was considered a protector of this country and that older citizens and children looked up to me, yet we were attacked and innocent civilians lost their lives while their families mourn and I am still around, a protector of this crap safe and sound.

And you have gone out of your way to extinguish my opinion with a threat, calling me a troll and accusing me of having motives.

Yet it is acceptable for other members to call me:

a coward
murderous
blasphemous
wish me to be bombed


and attack my beliefs:

Bush = Hitler
Republicans committ murder/ genocide on the elderly and the poor
my religion is blasphemy

and one MOD in particular publicly curses at me?


Every time I bring this to your attention you have no response other than to threaten me?

And you yourself have publicly alluded to me as a liar (re: fighters patrolling the cities of America)

Just wondering, have you ever made a personal sacrifice for our country?

Why do you Despise those of us that do?
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Old 09-08-2002, 04:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge
I have given 7 years of my life in service to YOUR country for YOUR safety and the safety of YOUR family. I have been in 2 buildings that have been blown up by terrorists, and I currently work in a facility with my continued service that is a terrorist target.
and this excuses it how? i mentioned before that just because others do things that offend you here, doesn't excuse you from offending them back. if anything, all it does is make you stoop to their level. i'm sure there are some who have read this thread and lost a friend or loved one last year, or came close to it, and didn't need to see that picture as a reminder. i don't even see what it has to do with anything in the first place. military service doesn't make someone a better person than those who haven't.
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Old 09-08-2002, 05:02 PM   #40
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Originally posted by z edge
and one MOD in particular publicly curses at me?
z edge, all I did was post "bite me" 1 time

if it would make you feel any better when I take that back then say so
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