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Old 10-27-2001, 01:14 AM   #21
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lmao teletubbies.

That site is pretty wacked I must say.. but its just a site and you know there are probly a billion sites out there that are wacked and screwed.. what can you do about it.

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Old 10-27-2001, 01:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
What was the Catholic justification for saying that suicide is automatically damned? Judas? Not exactly representative of the entire population of suicidal people.
Well, before Vatican II in the 1960s, it was Catholic tradition that anyone who kills themselves are automatically hellbound, because of that passage about Judas. Jesus reportedly says that even Judas was not beyond forgiveness, but, instead, he took his own life. The implication, henceforth, always was that those who committed suicide were automatically damned.

However, one forgets that when Judas did commit suicide, it was not out of mental illness, but rather, humiliation and pride. Plus, Catholicism has taken a negative stance on fundamentalism, and, since Vatican II, has decided to take in account that those who killed themselves might not be in a mental state where they would be responsible for their actions, and, as such, no longer passes judgment, reserving it only for God, rightfully where it belongs.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Well, before Vatican II in the 1960s, it was Catholic tradition that anyone who kills themselves are automatically hellbound, because of that passage about Judas. Jesus reportedly says that even Judas was not beyond forgiveness, but, instead, he took his own life. The implication, henceforth, always was that those who committed suicide were automatically damned.

However, one forgets that when Judas did commit suicide, it was not out of mental illness, but rather, humiliation and pride. Plus, Catholicism has taken a negative stance on fundamentalism, and, since Vatican II, has decided to take in account that those who killed themselves might not be in a mental state where they would be responsible for their actions, and, as such, no longer passes judgment, reserving it only for God, rightfully where it belongs.

Melon

But in UTEOTW, Bono sings

"In waves of regret, waves of joy
I reached out for the one I tried to destroy"

I guess that makes Bono a heretic, then.
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Old 10-27-2001, 01:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
I guess that makes Bono a heretic, then.
LOL...I love Bono on religion. Probably regarding religion, both Bono and Moby are idols to me, although I don't agree with them for the sake of agreement. I have my own opinions, but, lots of the time, they tend to agree with what they both say.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:04 AM   #25
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i think homosexuality is wrong...*ducks and runs*
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:22 AM   #26
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Just out of curiousity, melon, have you emailed the site? I may, to question the church that is.

[This message has been edited by wannabe (edited 10-26-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:27 AM   #27
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I am the lucky one, there is no god's plan in the dutch language.
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en:
i think homosexuality is wrong...*ducks and runs*
You can think it's wrong, and I won't flame you nor get into why I disagree with you (forum veterans will remember the last two times I got into this ) but if you look at the way they present it in this site, it is completely done in a fashion that is stereotypical and full of lies. A maliciously crafted lie is far more "sinful."

If you want to show people "the truth," it's assumed you have to be "truthful." This site, by all accounts, fails in the "truthful" part.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by wannabe:
Just out of curiousity, melon, have you emailed the site? I may, to question the church that is.
Heh...e-mailing extremists are like talking to walls. Look how well the talks with the Taliban went in handing over bin Laden?
http://www.hellhouse.ms/information....20Hell%20House

There's the info on the denominations, BTW.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 10-26-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:44 AM   #30
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I am SO sick and tired of these idiots that use the phrase "hate the sin, not the sinner" to justify their intolerant, homophobe, bigotist remarks!!!

I myself am not a homosexual, so I can't speak for them directly, BUT I highly recommend that you go to this website and read the TRUTH about homosexuals!!

fallwell.com

It's time for us Christians to stand up and REJECT and DENOUNCE this bigoted view from the "Christian Coalition" and start DEFENDING our brothers and sisters!!! The following are just a few of the quotes from the "Christian Coalition" that are just totally unacceptable:
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"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -- Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992
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"Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals -- the two things seem to go together."
-- Pat Robertson,
The 700 Club television program, January 21, 1993, ignoring the fact that the Nazis killed homosexuals as ruthlessly as they did Jews
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"I have known few homosexuals who did not practice their tendencies. Such people are sinning against God and will lead to the ultimate destruction of the family and our nation. I am unalterably opposed to such things, and will do everything I can to restrict the freedom of these people to spread their contagious infection to the youth of our nation."
-- Pat Robertson,
The 700 Club television program, May 24, 1994
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"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
------------

"I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either."
-- Pat Robertson,
The 700 Club television program, May 28, 1993
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It makes me sick!! I'll just end with these two quotes that I STRONGLY support:

"The millions of Christians in this country reflect just about every conceivable political point of view. For one highly conservative group to proclaim itself 'the Christian Coalition' strikes me as decidedly un-Christian arrogance.... We reflect countless races, religions and lifestyles, and we often differ on questions of morality and behavior. The only way so diverse a nation can survive is by all of us practicing a high degree of tolerance. But tolerance is not the way of the Christian right. Its leaders want to impose their one-size-fits-all morality on everyone. It won't work. When any group tries to impose its values on everyone else, the result will inevitably be resentment, hatred and violence."
--Senator Warren Rudman

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"Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves" (1 Cor. 5:12-13).

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[This message has been edited by A|catura (edited 10-26-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:49 AM   #31
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Uh oh.
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:56 AM   #32
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I am cautioning people not to turn this into a flame thread (no pun intended). I am not judging Christianity in the whole, but just extremism. I'm tired of extremists, and I'm more tired of the influence they have on America and our political system.

I wish people would wake up and reject these false prophets. They not only lead to a corruption of the true intentions of Christianity, they also lead to horrible stereotypes of both Christians in general and also Southerners (which I am sometimes guilty of, but trying to get away from that). How long must we sing this song?

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 03:57 AM   #33
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i agree that a site like this is not the best way to spread the gospel...

i also believe that tolerance is one of the main reasons our word is in the pathetic state it's in...
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Old 10-27-2001, 05:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by nintendan:
I don't understand how one can be christian and say that nothing is wrong with homosexuality. Your only fooling yourselves.
I still haven't had a response to the website that I posted in this thread.fallwell.com

If you think homosexuality is wrong, then let me see some evidence that contests this website.

fallwell.com

Sorry Melon!! I don't mean to keep bringing this topic up, but that's what this thread is mainly about. Furthermore, I'm tired of LETTING people get away with their bigoted views towards homosexuals. Show me where Jesus condemned it!! WHERE? If you didn't see my earlier response, then please scroll up.

Thanks for your patience. Please let me know what you think.




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Old 10-27-2001, 07:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en:
i think homosexuality is wrong...*ducks and runs*

Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
You can think it's wrong, and I won't flame you
Yes, but I will!

Say, Se7en.... have you ever masturbated? C'mon, you're a guy - you must have. Well, oopsy, that's a sin - and it's "wrong." Have you ever engaged in pre-marital sex? Oh my, that's a big one - and there are MANY people who feel it is "wrong" to do so. Have you ever had sex of any type without the goal of reproduction? My, my, my... that's another sin because it is "wrong." Have you ever lusted after a woman? Sorry - it's "wrong." Have you ever cheated on a test? That's a nasty way of being "wrong" and I personally disagree with that one.

All these "wrongs" are listed in the Bible, along with many others. In other words, just about everyone in the world is "wrong."

So thanks for playing the "it's wrong" game - better luck next time.
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Old 10-27-2001, 07:32 PM   #36
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A|catura, I only wish you had been here back in November 2000 and February 2001 the last times I fought that battle. An awesome spectacle indeed, but, unfortunately, led to the banning a few overzealous individuals.

Call me mellowed and more restrained, but I'd rather not get into that mess again like I did twice before. It's a complicated religious issue, compounded by several issues of Biblical translation through the centuries, the question of errancy or inerrancy, and also historial and sociological issues. It's surely a mounting task that has no easy way around it.

It is my hope that this thread does not turn into another homosexuality debate, but I admire your initiative, and, if fate determines that this does become another embittered and ugly homosexuality debate, I will enter my input as necessary. However, it is my hope that it never gets to that point. It is my hope that people here will practice sufficient restraint.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 07:42 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
It is my hope that this thread does not turn into another homosexuality debate, but I admire your initiative, and, if fate determines that this does become another embittered and ugly homosexuality debate, I will enter my input as necessary. However, it is my hope that it never gets to that point. It is my hope that people here will practice sufficient restraint.
Melon,

Are homosexuality debates inherently embittered and ugly? Here I am not debating homosexuality, but debates about homosexuality instead--a meta-debate, if you will.

[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 10-27-2001).]
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Old 10-27-2001, 07:53 PM   #38
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I've fought three debates--2 here in FYM and 1 in another forum--and all three turned hateful, spiteful, and irrational by the end. So, to answer your question, yes, I think homosexuality debates are inherently embittered and ugly.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 10-27-2001, 10:16 PM   #39
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Hm. Any possibility of this sie being satirical and a joke? Like that bonsai kittens website. I honestly am not enraged by this one; it's too 'out there' to make me take it seriously.


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Old 10-27-2001, 10:41 PM   #40
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I'm not sure if y'all realize this, but the Hell House is an actual production that travels state-to-state. I have been through the Hell House three times (my dad used to take me annually). So no this site is not a joke. Also perhaps the material does not come across the same over the net. take this line for example: "What's the matter boy nobody loves you? Nobody cares for you?"
When going through the Hell House itself, these words are spoken by a veiled 'demon' beside the suicidal person. So it's more like a demonstration of what is going on inside the suicidal person's head, rather than a mockery of the person's state of mind.

The Hell House always had a very long wait. It is advertised on all the Christian radio stations over here, so it gets pretty much publicity. It used to freak me out, because near the end when you're about to enter 'hell' you walked into a wooden shaped coffin, and then it opens up into 'hell' and there was this large devil with a strobe lighting. I must say that this Hell House has lots of imagery and things, it must take lots of time to put this thing on. After that they'd allow you into heaven and have people located at tables with religious pamphlets to read up on the christian views, and to urge you to keep in mind what you had seen that day.

I could go into this in greater detail if anyone wants.

All in all they seem to be trying to scare people out of sin, which to me isn't exactly the best way to go about it. The truth will sell itself.
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