Tipping Point - Sexual Harassment In America

[MrsSpringsteen]

This is a town hall on CNN tonight. Anyone going to watch?

It's surreal, the daily cavalcade of allegations. In Hollywood first and foremost. In other places too. Not just men doing it to women, but men doing it to other men and to children. Women doing it to men. Harassment, assault, rape.

Is this really a tipping point? Now that so many people have been given the courage and voice to come forward I certainly hope so. It happened to me and it's so demeaning.

[BVS]

On one hand if feels like it is, and you hope that to be true.

On the other, look who’s in the WH and look at the excuses that so many women gave for his behavior.

[Hewson]

Only time will tell, but it wouldn't shock me that this is the hot button issue of now and ends up back in the shadows in 6 months time, hopefully not, but we shall see.
At least there's plenty of attention currently and a few criminals have at the very least been outed and their careers ended. Hopefully more penalties than that result for Weinstein, Spacey, Toback et al.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by BVS

On one hand if feels like it is, and you hope that to be true.

On the other, look who’s in the WH and look at the excuses that so many women gave for his behavior.

Of course but also look at the people in Hollywood, men and women, who called out Trump for that non stop but at the same time they knew about Weinstein, Spacey, Ratner, Singer...all of the perps. And they said and did nothing. So they're hypocrites.

Look at Alec Baldwin, he blamed Rose McGowan for taking a settlement after he said he had heard for years that Weinstein had raped her. I had a Lyft driver last month, she worked for decades with the biggest stars in movies and tv. In wardrobe. She told me that Alec Baldwin is a real pompous ass (no surprise there) and she said he's the liberal version of Trump. Now I know more precisely what she meant.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

Of course but also look at the people in Hollywood, men and women, who called out Trump for that non stop but at the same time they knew about Weinstein, Spacey, Ratner, Singer...all of the perps. And they said and did nothing. So they're hypocrites.

You’re absolutely right.

I think those that actually knew, and called out one and not the other have just as much guilt on their hands as the Trump voters.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Ronan Farrow has another excellent New Yorker article. Nov 6th. About how Weinstein hired agencies to spy on and collect "dirt" on his accusers and on journalists. One of them was a phony women's rights advocate who talked to Rose McGowan. Some of them were former Mossad spies. Ehud Barak admitted to introducing Weinstein to these agents. He says Weinstein told him it was for business purposes.

Weinstein needs to be locked up. So does Spacey, I hope they can get him for that assault on Heather Unruh 's son last year.

[corianderstem]

The Weinstein story about the Mossad spies is fucking insane.

Can you imagine if Rose McGowan had talked about that before all of this blew up? They would have said she was crazy.

[Irvine511]

the Louis CK thing is so disappointing. his comedy is so smart, and he nicely punches up against misogyny, racism, and homophobia. i'm much more sad about him than Kevin fucking Spacey.

[cobl04]

The CK stuff has been out there for years. A perfect example of everything that's wrong with our culture: the females who accused him, and the females writing the stories trying to get it out there, were not believed, were threatened, told to just leave it alone.

I do hope there is capacity for men to be better... in that, if these men admit to what they've done and apologise properly and seek to be better, instead of this "I'm sorry IF my behaviour..." "it was a dark time in my life" "it's due to my issues with", then hopefully it can lead to an improved culture amongst men. I know that I have done and said some shitty things in my life, but I am trying every day to reflect and to make up for that going forward.

I'm very happy all these stories are coming out, and I suspect there's millions more that won't. It does feel like a tipping point and that's a good thing. It's time for us men to be accountable, and for us to stop shitting on women at every possible point. Let them tell their stories and empower themselves and let's us shut up and focus on being better.

[nbelcik]

Gawker reported on allegations against Louis CK and Weinstein years ago. It's a damn shame they got shut down

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by nbelcik

Gawker reported on allegations against Louis CK and Weinstein years ago. It's a damn shame they got shut down

They also had Kevin Spacey years ago as well... as did many.

And that's the thing with the majority of serial abuse cases... it's usually an open secret.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by cobl04

The CK stuff has been out there for years. A perfect example of everything that's wrong with our culture: the females who accused him, and the females writing the stories trying to get it out there, were not believed, were threatened, told to just leave it alone.

I do hope there is capacity for men to be better... in that, if these men admit to what they've done and apologise properly and seek to be better, instead of this "I'm sorry IF my behaviour..." "it was a dark time in my life" "it's due to my issues with", then hopefully it can lead to an improved culture amongst men. I know that I have done and said some shitty things in my life, but I am trying every day to reflect and to make up for that going forward.

I'm very happy all these stories are coming out, and I suspect there's millions more that won't. It does feel like a tipping point and that's a good thing. It's time for us men to be accountable, and for us to stop shitting on women at every possible point. Let them tell their stories and empower themselves and let's us shut up and focus on being better.

I think what you said about men is good. Just own up to things and try to be better and accountable, that's just a human thing not a gender thing but it is a male responsibility. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. And support women and do something about other men who are doing these things to women. It just starts with small behaviors in your everyday interactions.

In the CNN special last night they talked about that, concrete steps that men can take. It started with something simple, like if you see # me too by someone you know. Reach out to her and tell her you support her. People in general don't say anything, I think mostly because they don't know what to say. When men don't it can make you think wrongly that they don't care, or that they think things about you that they don't. The ones who do think those things, well I wouldn't want them in my life anyway.

And like they also said in the special, women need to support other women. Women can be so awful to each other.

Mary Bono was on last night and said she was harassed by a male colleague in Congress. How pathetic is that, to reach those heights and put up with that. She told him to stop and he did, that does not always happen as Anita Hill said. That often makes it worse. It's not on the victim to put a stop to it other than via the proper channels. If that even works.

Also revealed in that special, the US government uses taxpayer money to pay off federal cases of harassment in order to keep them under wraps. Very disturbing. The silence and secrecy about harassment allows it to go on forever, as we're seeing now.

[cobl04]

Another thing that sickens me is that Trump has had multiple women come forward, and is on tape admitting as much, but he gets a free pass. Were he still just Trump he would have been destroyed.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by cobl04

Another thing that sickens me is that Trump has had multiple women come forward, and is on tape admitting as much, but he gets a free pass. Were he still just Trump he would have been destroyed.

I don't think the media here ever really dug deep into all of that, they were too busy using him for every ratings point they could get. CNN being the worst offender of all in that regard during the campaign.

As big as Harvey Weinstein's army of spies and enablers and complicit people is, Trump's must dwarf that in spades. I'm sure Trump has used his money and power for decades to get away with so much. I'm sure what's out there is just the tip of the iceberg. Obviously there are plenty of voters who just don't care. Like he said, he could murder someone and get away with it. Or words to that effect, I can't remember exactly. It's as if he's a cult leader exerting mind control.

[Hewson]

I'm sure that this is probably as bad or worse in the world of politics than it is in Hollywood. Many of our presidents probably were/are guilty of such things. We know for sure about some (Orange Donnie, Slick Willie, JFK for sure in modern times, plus who knows how long the elder Bush has been using his "David Cop A Feel" joke). And I'm sure it goes on in all level of politics. There's some correlation to the ego of a person who wants to be in control/a position of power to the abusive behavior, and that's the personality type that usually gets into politics at high levels.

[MrsSpringsteen]

This is a great piece by the actor Matt McGorry, he was on the CNN special last night. He plays Asher on How To Get Away With Murder. He's also on Orange Is The New Black. Hopefully it will work, if not you can just Google it. I've read things in the past that he's posted about on Twitter, he just seems to be a guy who really gets it.

https://medium.com/@MattMcGorry/good...n-b507bed80449

[MrsSpringsteen]

Ugh. One comment says Matt is the perfect example of what women are not looking for in a man. Well that's not true for me.

Whoever this Mark Dice guy is, he must be what women are looking for in a man. I bet his You Tube channel is full of all kinds of good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sP7Me8FL9E

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think it's very important to note that, while the majority of incidents may be make to female, there are also many incidents of male to make, female to female, and yes, female to male harassment that takes place.

As Hewson noted, abuse of power is the primary cause - be it power by size, stature, wealth or celebrity, or even something more benign - a coach with power over an athlete for example.

[deep]

Louis C K may get some praise for his full confession and taking responsibility.

I can't do that, it does make it a little bit easier for many, including himself.

there is so much to process in all of this, I am so glad that people are finding and using their voices and this is one of the few actual benefits of social media

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by deep

Louis C K may get some praise for his full confession and taking responsibility.

I can't do that, it does make it a little bit easier for many, including himself.

Come on deep, you can do that.

Confess and take responsibility.