Tipping Point - Sexual Harassment In America

[redhill]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

What the hell...? Yeah I really don't like calling someone a liar about their personal experiences. But it does mirror what is done to people who are harassed or assaulted in society at large.

Distortion time? She did lie about my posts. It's in the thread. And I don't believe that she was grabbed in the crotch every in a way that caused intense physical pain every night before midnight at the bar in college. When I clarified and asked her that question (based on her assertion) she ignored it.

And she just did what you're saying you don't like by calling my credibility into question.

Folks, it's time to drop the double standards.

[redhill]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Unnecessary and rude.

And redhill, you might not be as good as you think. You’re calling her a liar on a semantic technicality. Yes, she wasn’t painfully grabbed by the crouch every night. But you’re acting as if that’s the only issue, and ignoring the experiences of regular sexual harassment she is sharing.

That’s not “good.”

I'm not ignoring her experiences. They are valid but I just want a little honesty as this is a serious matter. On the flipside, my experiences were definitely made light of. Or is that unimportant?

She was also dishonest about the thoughts I expressed in earlier posts. Maybe I should have just left it at "disingenuous".

[Diemen]

You certainly seem to be trying your very hardest to minimize her experiences and use that one point (the crotch grabbing that she never claimed to experience every night) as sufficient evidence to call her dishonest.

It’s not a good look.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by redhill

Distortion time? She did lie about my posts. It's in the thread. And I don't believe that she was grabbed in the crotch every in a way that caused intense physical pain every night before midnight at the bar in college. When I clarified and asked her that question (based on her assertion) she ignored it.

And she just did what you're saying you don't like by calling my credibility into question.

Folks, it's time to drop the double standards.

Thanks but I don't have double standards. Nor do I have the time or desire to look back and digest however many pages back.

You called her a liar, that's what I saw. This is all just so ridiculous.

[redhill]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

Thanks but I don't have double standards. Nor do I have the time or desire to look back and digest however many pages back.

You called her a liar, that's what I saw. This is all just so ridiculous.

I honestly don't get it. So someone can be disingenuous multiple times in a post and completely mischaracterize what I've expressed?

But I get slammed for calling it out?

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by redhill

I honestly don't get it. So someone can be disingenuous multiple times in a post and completely mischaracterize what I've expressed?

I think the issue is you’re complaining about your argument being mischaracterized while you’re doing the exact same thing in return.

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by redhill

Sad. The woman you're talking about was, factually, being deceptive and making false claims about statements in my posts.

you have absolutely nothing either way that shows if she was lying or not. you literally just decided that she *must* be lying - case closed - based on nothing more than some conjecture.

Do you expect me to let that stand? I don't care if society at large accepts that these days - I don't. The proof is in the thread.

yes i'm sure you stand against all liars everywhere on the internet with the same virulence and aggression with which you have gone after the women in this thread.

She also called into question my credibility after sharing some incredibly personal experiences.

she most certainly DID NOT do this until several posts after you did it to her first.

post #543:

Originally Posted by redhill

Also, I don't want to minimize your experiences but it seems statistically impossible that you were grabbed in the crotch (especially in a way that caused physical pain) or otherwise sexually assaulted EVERY NIGHT BEFORE MIDNIGHT at a bar in college. There's no point in having a conversation if you're going to be that dishonest.

post #549:

Originally Posted by anitram

redhill - Funny how your experiences seem to be multiplying with every post...



https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/a...ights-activist

bit of a gap there, bud...but we all know how you like to turn yourself into a martyr and play the victim all the time so not surprising at all.

[redhill]

Originally Posted by Diemen

I think the issue is you’re complaining about your argument being mischaracterized while you’re doing the exact same thing in return.

Except, of course, the fact that I never mischaracterized anyone.

[mama cass]

back on topic at least

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by redhill

Except, of course, the fact that I never mischaracterized anyone.

You called anitram dishonest because she didn’t actually get painfully grabbed in the crotch every night.

She never claimed she did.

[redhill]

Originally Posted by DaveC

you have absolutely nothing either way that shows if she was lying or not. you literally just decided that she *must* be lying - case closed - based on nothing more than some conjecture.



yes i'm sure you stand against all liars everywhere on the internet with the same virulence and aggression with which you have gone after the women in this thread.



she most certainly DID NOT do this until several posts after you did it to her first.

post #543:




post #549:



bit of a gap there, bud...but we all know how you like to turn yourself into a martyr and play the victim all the time so not surprising at all.

There's so much BS in this post that it's hard to know where to start. She made that insinuation in a much earlier post. She was also disingenuous about my earlier posts (that's a fact).

I never "went after women". I simply mentioned a double standard that no one seems to want to admit exists.

[redhill]

Originally Posted by Diemen

You called anitram dishonest because she didn’t actually get painfully grabbed in the crotch every night.

She never claimed she did.

"it's interesting to me that neither he nor those agreeing with the spirit of his posts seemed to take a moment to consider that he was all hot and bothered over being sexually assaulted TWICE, in drunken bar scenarios. Like, that was my night every night at a bar in college. Before midnight. "

[anitram]

Originally Posted by redhill

"it's interesting to me that neither he nor those agreeing with the spirit of his posts seemed to take a moment to consider that he was all hot and bothered over being sexually assaulted TWICE, in drunken bar scenarios. Like, that was my night every night at a bar in college. Before midnight. "

Wow you are something else.

Where did I say this caused intense pain??!! And why is THAT the standard?

Also in the interest of being clear I meant the nights at the bar when I was AT the bar. Not every day of the week (I wish), but your typical weeknight drunken college drinking.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by redhill

"it's interesting to me that neither he nor those agreeing with the spirit of his posts seemed to take a moment to consider that he was all hot and bothered over being sexually assaulted TWICE, in drunken bar scenarios. Like, that was my night every night at a bar in college. Before midnight. "

Do you think this is vindication for you? It is clearly not.

She claims that sexual assault was a regular thing for her. NOWHERE does she say or even imply that she had the exact same type of sexual assault as you happen to her every night. That is entirely your own mischaracterization of her words.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

[Nick66]

Originally Posted by anitram

The $ is good, the hours are bad. The clients do all pay and are sophisticated, though often assholes. I did always find it more collegial though than my litigation (whether criminal or civil) peers did. It seemed to me like litigation really does breed an adversarial spirit which often made them actually dislike the other side's counsel. On the corporate side, you're all basically there to make rich people richer, nobody hates anybody so long as everybody is profiting. But that's just my somewhat cynical view.

Nah, we all got along pretty well actually.

Don't get me wrong, in court the PD or private defense attorneys and I would go at it pretty fiercely...even shouting at each other a few occasions. It could get intense.

But that was all just in the courtroom and part of the job. They had to zealously defend their client and I had to represent the state. We both had jobs to do. One second we'd be shouting at each other and then the judge would have a recess and we'd be shooting it talking about our plans for the weekend. And at the end of the day more times than not we'd all get a beer together. The PD's were really good sports usually, because they had the tougher job than I with less pay and clients who lied to them all day. But few people took courtroom arguments personally, no matter how heated they got, and we left them in the courtroom. To do otherwise would just be lame and unprofessional.

Occasionally you'd get really zealous types, but eventually they mellowed out or just didn't last. The only time anything became an issue outside the courtroom is if someone lied to you or did something unethical.

Originally Posted by anitram

Also in the interest of being clear I meant the nights at the bar when I was AT the bar. Not every day of the week (I wish), but your typical weeknight drunken college drinking.

You mean you weren't actually AT a bar seven nights a week drinking?

Your uni experience was much different than mine.

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by redhill

"it's interesting to me that neither he nor those agreeing with the spirit of his posts seemed to take a moment to consider that he was all hot and bothered over being sexually assaulted TWICE, in drunken bar scenarios. Like, that was my night every night at a bar in college. Before midnight. "

Dude, you just proved that you embellished what she said for the sake of your own argument, nicely done.

[redhill]

Originally Posted by anitram

Wow you are something else.

Where did I say this caused intense pain??!! And why is THAT the standard?

Also in the interest of being clear I meant the nights at the bar when I was AT the bar. Not every day of the week (I wish), but your typical weeknight drunken college drinking.

I think it's reasonable to compare like to like and assumed that was what you were doing. It wasn't my intent to mischaracterize or minimize your experiences and I'm sorry if I unintentionally did that in the discourse.

On that note, will you be apologizing to me for the MRA insinuations, clearly mischaracterizing my earlier posts, or belittling my experiences being sexually assaulted?

Or are we still holding up double standards?

I make one unintentional error and my feet are held to the fire. Yet you do three fucked up things intentionally and it's all good? I don't think so.

My initial point wound up being proved. Not only are there double standards in place, we can't even talk about them without fear of character attacks.

[BVS]

So what was that you were saying Kiwilad? Let me introduce you to the real redhill...

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by redhill

"it's interesting to me that neither he nor those agreeing with the spirit of his posts seemed to take a moment to consider that he was all hot and bothered over being sexually assaulted TWICE, in drunken bar scenarios. Like, that was my night every night at a bar in college. Before midnight. "

that does not specifically mention crotch grabbing though... it's pretty clear what anitram is saying...

pretty much every night out as a student i would think about my safety and have a "strategy" to stay safe, if i was ever on my own walking thru town late at night - heck even during the day in Paris! i was a target when i first arrived in Paris, young, naive, too trusting and smiley in general and always returning eye contact, and it got me a lot of unwanted attention, and i soon learned that it was like a "sport" and Parisian women had to be tough and it didn't matter if you were rude to a man who was being out of line - i pretty much learnt to scowl constantly when out and about on my own (the "fuck-off-and-don't-even-think-about-it face") and always move fast and with purpose, ALWAYS avoid eye contact and ALWAYS be rude to or ignore strange men - it's a horrible way to feel you have to behave like this, but it's for self-preservation... i have absolutely no qualms about offending men i don't know who might think i'm rude when i reject their advances... it soon helped me feel empowered and that it was ok to reject unwanted attention, strongly... these are not one-off things, women have to think about this every day, how to keep themselves safe in their day to day... jeesus, when i was young, i would catch the bus home late at night and sprint home down the middle of the road (was once nearly grabbed by a weirdo as i walked along the pavement past a driveway on my way home alone from the school bus as a child - so as a teenager was wary about dark driveways at night and always ran home in the middle of the street, never on the pavement) i almost laugh about these things as i have survived and avoided any close shaves i have had over the years but i guess it's pretty fucked up that girls have to be "on guard" the whole time... nothing ever caused me "pain" but it does fuck with your head and put you constantly on the edge with worry

anitram i'm sorry to hear you had so much hassle - that is horrible! my own experience is pretty different - when i was a student, many of my best friends were boys, and when we were out and about in a group i guess i felt pretty secure in my crowd of friends (obviously alone it was different, and i would be "on my guard")... bless them, the one time i did have my ass grabbed, we were all walking thru town late one night after a night out, and i went to give the guy a verbal pounding but one of my darling lad friends steered me away by my shoulders and told me to keep walking with the others (really rough area of Paris), and he went and put his arm round the guy's shoulders, walked him away from me back into the bar, and he basically schooled him gently on how girls really don't appreciate that, and literally talked to him for about 15 min and the guy bought him a beer haha... i will never forget what he did for me and i owe a lot to having the boys around as maybe they were a deterrent, and they did take care of me and the other girls (these are just really good mates, not boys who we were in relationships with)... another time, i was walking thru Paris, and a guy follows me and starts walking next to me and puts his arm round my shoulder walking alongside of me, it was daylight but i got really upset, and shrugged his arm off me and told him to get lost, and then he said he was only trying to be "nice", and i told him he wasn't be nice and you don't go around doing that to women, and he actually apologised and said he didn't mean any harm, and left me alone... i guess maybe it could have gone badly though and i'm thankful it didn't... have had worse - seeing as we're spilling - me and a girl friend were in a metro carriage on our own with just one guy sitting on the other side of the aisle from us and it suddenly dawned on us he was actually wanking - thankfully the train had just pulled up at a station and we looked at each other in horror and jumped off the train, he actually stumbled to his feet lurching after us but his pants were falling down and he couldn't move fast enough, lol asshole... but we were both incredibly shaken after that jeesus...

sorry for all the gory details, but as we're sharing...

there was a really good thread on twitter about this kind of thing (then made into an article in The Independent), about what women face day to day - will find it and post it...

https://www.indy100.com/article/woma...nation-8161801