US 2008 Presidential Campaign Thread - Part 2

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U2isthebest said:
Thank you! And spot on with all you said too!:applaud:
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You're welcome, and thanks to you as well :).

As for Giuliani...sooooo, a guy who's going through a divorce (which I imagine doesn't exactly fit within that stupid "Defense of Marriage" thing) will be willing to support an amendment banning gays from getting married?

Pardon my language, but what the fuck kind of logic is that? Very disappointing to hear that news.

Angela
 
But his divorced marriage had sanctity, don't you see? It was a man and a woman!

:|

Hypocrisy at its finest.
 
abcnews.com

Thompson's Daughter's Death Informs Right-to-Die Stance
Thompson Says End-of-Life Decisions Should Not Become 'Political Football'
By JAKE TAPPER

Oct. 22, 2007 —

In a moving, pointed and rare response to a question about the Terri Schiavo controversy, former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee Monday afternoon described details of the death of his own daughter, Elizabeth "Betsy" Thompson Panici, and said that neither federal nor local governments should play any role in making a family's end-of-life decisions.

"I had to make those decisions with the rest of my family," Thompson said. "And I will assure you one thing: No matter which decision you make, you will never know whether or not you made exactly the right decision."

GOP hopeful Thompson said that "making this into a political football is something that I don't welcome, and this will probably be the last time I ever address it. It should be decided by the family. The federal government -- and the state government too, except for the court system -- should stay out of these matters, as far as I'm concerned."

Betsy Panici died in January 2002 at the age of 38 from a brain injury following cardiac arrest after what was deemed an accidental overdose of prescription drugs. The death of Thompson's only daughter from his first marriage is said to have devastated the lawyer-turned-actor-turned-politician, and friends say it played a major role in Thompson's decision not to seek re-election two months later.

In June 2002, Thompson, who in 1985 divorced his first wife and the mother of his three children, including daughter Betsy, married political consultant Jeri Kehn. Their daughter, Hayden, was born in 2003, and their son, Samuel, was born just last year.

Last month during a sojourn to Florida, Thompson begged off a direct answer when asked if Congress had overstepped its bounds in March 2005 by preventing Schiavo's feeding tube from being removed, per court orders and the desires of her husband, Michael Schiavo. "Local matters, generally speaking, should be left to the locals," Thompson said last month. But since Thompson also said, "I don't remember the details of the case," many in the media covered his answer as if he had slept through what was a national frenzy in 2005.

"Obviously, I had heard about the Schiavo case," Thompson said Monday afternoon after touring the Port of Tampa, when a local reporter asked him if he wanted to revisit his answer from September. "I had to face a situation like that on a personal level with my own daughter. I know this is bandied about as a political issue, and people want to make it such and talk about it in the public marketplace a lot. I am a little bit uncomfortable about that, because it's an intensely personal thing with me. These things need to be decided by the family."
 
I won't argue with the guy on that issue. Especially about turning it into a political thing-I can't think of anything that would be more disrespectful to the family and to the person who's suffering.

I'm very sorry to hear about what he's had to go through :(. My condolances to him and his family on their loss.

Angela
 
Group to Obama: Drop singer from tour

By ANN SANNER, Associated Press Writer 30 minutes ago

A gay rights group has urged Barack Obama to cut ties with a gospel singer who it says spreads false information about homosexuality being a choice.

Donnie McClurkin is among several gospel singers scheduled to raise money for the Illinois senator and Democratic presidential candidate at a concert in South Carolina this weekend.

McClurkin has drawn attention from gay rights activists for his views on homosexuality.

"I don't believe that it is the intention of God," McClurkin said Monday in a telephone interview. "Sexuality, everything is a matter of choice."

McClurkin said he does not believe in discriminating against homosexuals. "What people do in their bedrooms and who they are as human beings are two different things," he said.

In a statement, Obama said he believes gays and lesbians are "our brothers and sisters" and should be afforded the same respect, dignity and rights granted all other citizens.

"I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country," Obama said. "I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as president of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

The statement did not say whether McClurkin will still perform on the tour.

"We strongly urge Obama to part ways with this divisive preacher who is clearly singing a different tune than the stated message of the campaign," Wayne Besen, executive director of Truth Wins Out, said in a statement.

At a forum on gay issues in August, Obama argued that civil unions for same-sex couples wouldn't be a "lesser thing" than marriage. Obama belongs to the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, but Obama has yet to go that far.

In a telephone interview Monday, Besen said he admired Obama, but wasn't ready to endorse him, especially considering McClurkin taking part in the campaign's "Embrace the Change" concert tour.

"I think he'd be a great president. But I think it's going to drive away support from people who are on the fence such as myself," Besen said.

McClurkin is a Grammy Award winner who performed at the Republican National Convention in 2004. He told AP Radio in an interview that September that he was "once involved with those desires and those thoughts," which he attributed to being raped at 8 and 13.

"That's what thrust me into it, and then God delivered me from that and gave me back who I really am and my true purpose," McClurkin said.
 
He told AP Radio in an interview that September that he was "once involved with those desires and those thoughts," which he attributed to being raped at 8 and 13.

"That's what thrust me into it, and then God delivered me from that and gave me back who I really am and my true purpose," McClurkin said.
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Oh my God. He attributes his homosexual feelings to being raped? I can't even process how that must apply to women in his fucked up mind.
 
I am at a loss to figure out how people that are supposed to be intelligent adults cannot tell the difference between sexuality and sexual activity. Echoing BVS, I have never had to try to be attracted to the opposite gender of myself, I just am attracted to guys. It wasn't a decision I had to make after thinking and praying long and hard.:huh: Gay people have to choose to engage in sexual activity, but, guess what, so do I as a straight woman!:eek: That has nothing to do with choosing their sexual orientation. I don't get what is so difficult to understand about that.:banghead:
 
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whenever someone uses the words sexual "orientation" and saying it is a "choice," they lose credibility with me. people should come up with terms that don't make them look foolish and contradictory.
 
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U2isthebest said:
Gay people have to choose to engage in sexual activity, but, guess what, so do I as a straight woman!:eek: That has nothing to do with choosing their sexual orientation. I don't get what is so difficult to understand about that.:banghead:
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the thinking is that you aren't gay until you have gay sex. in fact, there are no gay people, there are just people who engage in homosexual "activity." there are no gay people, and no straight people, really. there are just people. and human sexuality is naturally and always heterosexual. any difference is really deviance, and can be attributed to a variety of things, but it all comes from living in a fallen world.

and this is the happy, charitable, hate-the-sin-love-the-sinner viewpoint.
 
Irvine511 said:




the thinking is that you aren't gay until you have gay sex. in fact, there are no gay people, there are just people who engage in homosexual "activity." there are no gay people, and no straight people, really. there are just people. and human sexuality is naturally and always heterosexual. any difference is really deviance, and can be attributed to a variety of things, but it all comes from living in a fallen world.

and this is the happy, charitable, hate-the-sin-love-the-sinner viewpoint.
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That has honestly got to be the dumbest reasoning I've ever heard.:| Homosexuality and heterosexality are not activities. Sex is an activity, regardless of which gender a person chooses to engage in it with. I was straight before sex, and gosh darn it, I still am. For people so uptight about sex they sure do think about it a lot. It seems like sex is what they think holds a relationship together and that a relationship can't be real and passionate without sex (only in the missionary position of course :wink: ) I hear (and know) about a lot of Christians my age or just a little older getting married. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but a lot of times the reason given is that they don't want to "sin", so they better get married. That way, they can have sex without the floor opening up and swallowing them down to hell. I think its wonderful if people wait until they're married to have sex; it's commendable, especially in today's society. Yet, if you're getting married just so you can have sex, you're better off not being married at all. Lust and romance fade. If there's not true love underneath it, good luck in holding the marriage together after that. It's no wonder that Conservative, evangelicals have a higher divorce rate than any one else.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/137829/evangelicals_why_do_we_have_the_highest.html


(Sorry, that second part didn't have much to do with the topic at hand, but it's been bothering me lately. I suppose it fits in there in some way, though)
 
has anybody been to huckabee's web site? it is perhaps the most hilarious thing i've seen in all day:

I will fight the war on terror with the intensity and single-mindedness that it deserves.
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:laugh: single-mindedness is a good thing?

Our Founding Fathers, having endured the tyranny of the British Empire, wanted to guarantee our God-given liberties. They devised our three branches of government and our system of checks and balances. But they were still concerned that the system could fail, and that we might someday face a new tyranny from our own government. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves, and that's why they gave us the Second Amendment.
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is he saying he fears an onslaught from the SCOTUS or Congress? that we the people have the right to use our guns on our government leaders?


are people seriously supporting this guy?
 
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unico said:
has anybody been to huckabee's web site? it is perhaps the most hilarious thing i've seen in all day:



:laugh: single-mindedness is a good thing?
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If the implied message is that he would have stayed on Osama (Obama) until he got him
instead of going into Iraq then it may not be a bad thing.
 
Giuliani Defends, Employs Priest Accused of Molesting Teens
By BRIAN ROSS and AVNI PATEL ABC News

Oct. 23, 2007—

Presidential candidate Rudolph Giuliani hired a Catholic priest to work in his consulting firm months after the priest was accused of sexually molesting two former students and an altar boy and told by the church to stop performing his priestly duties.

The priest, Monsignor Alan Placa, a longtime friend of Giuliani and the priest who officiated at his second wedding to Donna Hanover, continues to work at Giuliani Partners in New York, to the outrage of some of his accusers and victims' groups, which have begun to protest at Giuliani campaign events.

"This man did unjust things, and he's being protected and employed and taken care of. It's not a good thing," said one of the accusers, Richard Tollner, who says Placa molested him repeatedly when he was a student at a Long Island, N.Y. Catholic boys high school in 1975.

At a campaign appearance in Milwaukee last week, Giuliani continued to defend Placa, who he described to reporters as a close friend for 39 years.

"I know the man; I know who he is, so I support him," Giuliani said. "We give some of the worst people in our society the presumption of innocence and benefit of the doubt," he said. "And, of course, I'm going to give that to one of my closest friends."

The accusations against Placa were made in testimony before a Suffolk County grand jury in 2002.

Tollner, now a mortgage broker in Albany, N.Y., says he was one of three people to testify about Placa.

"This man harmed children. He still could do it. He deserves to be shown for what he was, or is," says Tollner.

Appearing publicly for the first time today on ABC News' "Good Morning America," Tollner says the abuse started when he and Placa were in the high school making posters for a Right to Life march.

"As he started to explain how these posters should be done, I realized that something was rubbing my body," Tollner said. "After a minute or two, I realized that he's feeling me, feeling me in my genital area."

The grand jury report concluded that a Priest F, who Tollner says is Placa, abused the boys sexually "again and again and again."

"Priest F was cautious, but relentless in his pursuit of victims. He fondled boys over their clothes, usually in his office," the report said.

The report concluded that Priest F, and several other priests under investigation from the same Long Island, N.Y. diocese, could not be prosecuted because the statute of limitations had expired.

Several former students from the same high school say they were asked by the "Giuliani organization" to contact ABC News and vouch for Placa.

"There was absolutely not a hint of rumor of a speculation or a whisper, in four years, or in decades after of any sexual predatoriness on the part of Rev. Placa," wrote Matthew Hogan in an e-mail to ABCNews.com.

Hogan says he recalls that Placa did give "special attention" to his former schoolmate Richard Tollner and remembers seeing Tollner in Placa's office "laughing, on opposite sides of a desk with Mr. Tollner happily animated sitting up on the couch talking."

But Hogan says the school area where Tollner says he was molested "was constantly trafficked even on off days and hours."

"I will gladly help take apart in public anything that seriously overlooks the above. I'll be watching The Blotter like a hawk," Hogan wrote.

In addition to the allegations that Priest F was personally involved in the sexual abuse, the grand jury also said that Priest F became instrumental in a church policy that used "deception and intimidation" to keep the church scandal quiet.


Placa served as a lawyer for the diocese in dealing with allegations of abuse against other priests and, according to the grand jury report, claimed he had saved the church hundreds of thousands of dollars in his handling of possible litigation.

Lawyers for alleged victims say Placa would often conduct interviews, in his priest garb, without making it clear he was the church lawyer.

"He was a wolf in sheep's clothing," said Melanie Little, a lawyer for several alleged victims of sexual abuse by other priests in the diocese.

"He was more concerned with protecting the priests, protecting the reputation of the diocese and protecting the church coffers than he was protecting the children," said Little.

Since going to work for Giuliani Partners, the former mayor and the priest have continued to be close.

Placa accompanied Giuliani and his wife Judith on a trip to Rome earlier this year.

Through a spokeswoman at Giuliani Partners, Sunny Mindel, Placa declined requests to comment on the allegations to ABCNews.com.

Mindel also declined to specify what Placa does for the firm or how much he is paid.

"Mr. Giuliani can do what he wants with his money, but he has to pay the price for people like myself who disagree with employing known child molesters," Tollner said.

While no longer allowed to perform priestly duties or appear in public as a priest, Placa continues to maintain a residence at a church rectory in Great Neck on New York's Long Island.

According to New York property records, Placa also co-owns, with another priest, a waterfront apartment in lower Manhattan in Battery Park City, valued at more than $500,000.
 
BOSTON (AP) - Republican presidential candidate and die-hard Yankees fan Rudy Giuliani says he'll be rooting for the Red Sox in the World Series.

Giuliani made the admission during a campaign stop in Boston today, but insisted that he wasn't doing it just because he was in Massachusetts."

The former New York mayor said he's an American League fan, so would always root for the American League team in the World Series unless they were playing the New York Mets.
 
I'm more outraged about his sports bigamy than anything! Both New York teams? The Red Sox? Hating the National League?

Now I couldn't even vote for him over another Republican.
 
Cleveland Plain Dealer

Shirley MacLaine claims Kucinich had UFO encounter
Tuesday, October 23, 2007
Mark Naymik
Plain Dealer Politics Writer

Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has claimed to have seen a UFO, according to Shirley MacLaine in her new book, "Sage-Ing While Age-Ing."

Kucinich "had a close sighting over my home in Graham, Washington, when I lived there," the actress, a close Kucinich friend, wrote. "Dennis found his encounter extremely moving. The smell of roses drew him out to my balcony where, when he looked up, he saw a gigantic triangular craft, silent, and observing him.

"It hovered, soundless, for 10 minutes or so, and sped away with a speed he couldn't comprehend. He said he felt a connection in his heart and heard directions in his mind."

Kucinich's campaign and congressional representatives did not return calls and e-mail asking whether the Cleveland Democrat, now in his sixth congressional term, in fact saw a UFO or if there was some other explanation for MacLaine's recollection.

MacLaine is a well-known believer of UFOs and reincarnation. And she has been close to Kucinich for decades. MacLaine is the godmother of Kucinich's daughter and attended Kucinich's 2005 Cleveland wedding to third wife, Elizabeth, who's often campaigning by his side.

MacLaine also recommended in the 1980s that Kucinich visit New Mexico spiritual adviser Chris Griscom, whom MacLaine featured in her then-best-selling book, "Dancing in the Light," describing how Griscom helped her communicate with trees. Kucinich has insisted that Griscom was not his spiritual adviser but a "teacher and a very good friend."

MacLaine, who shares Kucinich's opposition to using weapons in space, doesn't shed any more light in her book on Kucinich's close encounter, including when it happened. Her book goes on sale next month.
 
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