This is the Vertigo Tour, not the African awareness tour

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Yahweh said:
No its not only about America, Europian countries dont do enough either. Take the One campaign across the globe, and dont stop with just America.

Taking a piss break is a true sign of disrespect for the cause and the people that it is affecting but that is up to you.

Bono and U2 arent going to stop being a political band at any point so I think its time after 25 years that you got used to it.
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I agree that European countries don't do enough...however The One Campaign is specifically for the US, with Bono's hopes to get a least one million signatures. Make Poverty History is for Europe....and I would love to see Bono gunning for that over there.

I don't want Bono or U2 to stop being political and I am used to it....so I hope that part of the post wasn't directed at me.
 
Okay, my first post.

Been a fan since way back when, first show when I was still a puppy and my mum made my big brother take me to Phoenix Park with him for the day as my cousin couldn't use his ticket 'cause he had the mumps!

I can totally understand those who are saying they just want to be entertained (or words to that effect). Maybe we should try to draw up a hypothetical setlist of songs which have no foundation in Bono's socio-political ideals... Pride? Nope. Streets? Nope. New Year's Day? Nope. SBS? Nope. Bullet? Nope. R2SS? Nope. LAPOE? Nope. One? Nope. Electric Co.? Nope and so on.

My point is, I guess, if it's simply entertainment you're looking for, as much as you're entitled to try to find it there, a U2 gig isn't the place for it. A huge portion of their work, including much of their very best, comes from what Bono and the boys believe. The very lifeblood of U2 is the world that surrounds them, their interaction in it and reaction to it. Plain and simple.

It doesn't make you a bad person to just want to be entertained for your $$$, just maybe a little naive to expect simple pleasure. As much as their music is a product and we're the consumers it's every bit as much an art form, a commentary on the world and it's role is not solely one of distraction. It is thought provoking, uplifting and much more besides. Sometimes it's uncomfortable and disturbing, sometimes irritating.

Those of us who are the more crazed fans (which is most of us here one would suspect) are going to be familiar with a lot of the messages, but as popular as forums like this are, there were what, 15,000 at each San Diego gig, yet I don't see 15,000 people rushing here to recod their reactions. The point being that for as many as have heard it alll before, untold times more who haven't. If he can reach out to those people by yelling Africa a couple of times and make them go away determined to make a difference, WTF is wrong with that really?

And a lot of posts here, from both sides of the argument, have demonstrated that there's still very much a huge misconception of the problem and what he is proposing as a solution to it. #1 being that it doesn't involve you putting your hand into your pocket and forgoing the extra beer at the bar tonight or whatever.

Talk of Bono's millions. Literally would be a drop in the ocean. $300m gross for the tour, (to be split 5 ways once all the costs are taken out), over the course of a year's work. It would cover about a month or so of the debt repayments made by African countries to Europe and the US.

So for a month they don't have to pay the debt (debt accumulated by Western leaders giving shedloads of cash to corrupt dictators to build their palaces and so on, not to actually feed, clothe or educate anyone); but what happens next month then?

No one person can make even the slightest dent in these problems alone. $300m would be a half pint of gas when you're trying to drive around the world 10 times.

While on the topic though, Bono's not being a hypocrite, he's not asking you to give up everything you've got, just think about how your government spends your tax dollars and ask could that money be better spent.

So those of you who think you know all the issues and therefore don't need to hear about it again, the majority of you don't so maybe do some research or listen to the man for the perhaps 60 seconds or so where he actually talks about it during the gig.

One person made a great point in criticism of the "preaching" and that was, a rock concert is not the place for the poiliticizing. And I guarantee you, 100% that Bono and the band would agree with you. With the exception that the place(s) for it, in this particular aspect of world politics, are failing miserably to do what it takes to get the job done.

He's asking you to make sure that the real powerbrokers, the only ones who can make a difference, talk about it and address the problem.

It's your choice to take it or leave it, love it or hate it, listen or tune out, but until the world leaders make a stand, from my point of view, he can preach all he wants.

Sorry for the long post guys.
 
There lies the problem.....fucking politicians. But remember, they work for who voted for them....not Bono.

Most people can't relate to what real poverty is. I can't understand what it's like over there. But I also know AIDS is rampant in Pakistan, India, human rights violations abound. I admire what he's doing. His heart's in the right place. I remember his MLK rants when they played Pride. IRA on SBS. He's done it forever. Just not for 3/4 of a show. I'm still gonna enjoy the show. And when someone pays $160 to see em, they can take a piss break whenever they want!
 
swanny said:
There lies the problem.....fucking politicians. But remember, they work for who voted for them....not Bono.
Click to expand...

Totally, and Bono's asking those self same voters, as many whose ears he can get to listen, to engage their politicians on the subject 'cause no amount of his ranting to the politicians is going to make a difference anything like as much as the poeple who vote for them ranting to them.

And pee when you like, by all means.
 
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Well, I know by now what kind of a man Bono is, so I dont expect anything less from him, than to express his feelings at each gig. He's in front of thousands off ppl, many of whom idolise him, and will take heed of the things he says.

He'd be mad not to take advantage of that.
:up:
 
i agree

Bono is how i got involved in the Make Poverty History and One campaigns and his work is one of hte inspirations for me to take my own trip out to Africa.

My friends take the piss and say if Bono wasnt involved i wouldnt care which i think is unfair though. Bono is the reason i know about these things, NOT the reason WHY i do them.

without his and others outward "preaching" and constant highlighting of various causes things like the One campaign, DATA and Make Poverty History wouldnt exist or at least wouldnt be so high profile.

with that in mind i think its a good thing that he uses his postion in front of thousands of people every night to bring these causes to the forefront even more.
Many people wouldnt know about these causes and plights if Bono wasnt involved and constantly telling anyone who will listen about it be that at a conference or at a concert, it makes no difference
 
its okay...it doesnt bother me that much as i thought it would...on the bootlegs, i just skip past the speaking parts before those 3 songs and listen to the songs..i like the way he changes the singing of streets with the african melodies...anyon here like afro celt sound system? theyre really good...

im more annoyed about him calling this Dr. Kings America. ive heard king was a sexual abuser and beater of women, a communist belonging to 60 communist organizations, a plagiarizer, and used tons of church money for sexual escapades......after reading this website, i dont know what to think of MLK. .and before anyone calls me racist, be assured im not and im for equality of everyone...im just curious to what people think after reading all this..

http://www.martinlutherking.org/dream.html
 
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well it says its sources are newsweek, fbi tapes, and even friends of his archive..but i dont know...i just thought id get everyones opinion on it...

after looking at it more, the links to the message forums are like a white nationalist pride site...maybe they have the website name as a front for a white power site??? very weird...but ive heard the info somewhere else before i found this site but i wanted to find out more after hearing pride off the new bootleg...

i wonder if bono knows about this info and chooses to ignore it, instead looking at the bigger picture which was that people were starting to be looked at equally....
 
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His involvement with Africa and AIDS and all of those things are ONE of the reasons I have so much respect for that man. I have NO problem with him sharing his message(s) simply because I don't think that enough people are aware of the problems and tragedy in Africa.
 
I used to feel like this when I went to gigs in the 80s and have the likes of Bono preaching about various causes. I used to think 'what right do you have to do this - just because you're a rock star doesn't mean your opinion is any more valid than mine or anyone else's?'. Since then I've seen the world change for the worse and it's people like Bono that are trying to do something about it - Bush & Blair certainly aren't doing much. He could shut up and count his money, like most celebrities these days, or he could stand up and be counted. Good for him he's doing the latter.
 
*sofia* said:
:huh: that website about MLK doesn´t make sense to me... is that a trustable source? is that really true?:ohmy:

am I being naive?
Click to expand...

I thought everyone already knew this about him. No?
 
Classic American response to a concert promoting global awareness: "we want none of it." "We'll pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for a rock concert... but don't you dare tell us that there is a global genocide happening. Give us our ipods, our beer, our suvs, and our music." It's a freakin' U2 concert!? What the hell do you expect? ZOO TV was irony... irony... irony. How quickly we forget that there's a world consumed by fear, death, and destruction. This is startling since the last time U2 were here, NYC was burning. How soon we forget... when I visited Ground Zero in 2001 I saw a sign that read, "We will never forget." And I thought, "How could we possibly forget." Apparently we do because now we're back to "gimmie, gimmie" which is exactly why those towers were attacked. Have some awareness for the love of God...or simply turn your ipod up louder to drown out potential cries of dying children.
 
cmaly said:
Classic American response to a concert promoting global awareness: "we want none of it." "We'll pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for a rock concert... but don't you dare tell us that there is a global genocide happening. Give us our ipods, our beer, our suvs, and our music." It's a freakin' U2 concert!? What the hell do you expect? ZOO TV was irony... irony... irony. How quickly we forget that there's a world consumed by fear, death, and destruction. This is startling since the last time U2 were here, NYC was burning. How soon we forget... when I visited Ground Zero in 2001 I saw a sign that read, "We will never forget." And I thought, "How could we possibly forget." Apparently we do because now we're back to "gimmie, gimmie" which is exactly why those towers were attacked. Have some awareness for the love of God...or simply turn your ipod up louder to drown out potential cries of dying children.
Click to expand...


agree
 
NYRangers78 said:
well it says its sources are newsweek, fbi tapes, and even friends of his archive..but i dont know...i just thought id get everyones opinion on it...

after looking at it more, the links to the message forums are like a white nationalist pride site...maybe they have the website name as a front for a white power site??? very weird...but ive heard the info somewhere else before i found this site but i wanted to find out more after hearing pride off the new bootleg...

i wonder if bono knows about this info and chooses to ignore it, instead looking at the bigger picture which was that people were starting to be looked at equally....
Click to expand...

It's very clear that the site is developed by and run by either a white power group or individual. It's certainly aimed at discrediting the ideals and goals of MLK.

And funnily enought that's how most of the evidence came into being in the first place as the FBI had a long running desire to shut up MLK in any way possible.

Was King unfaithful to his wife? Quite probably. Many times over? Possibly. Does his wife, to this day, stand by her man? Absolutely.

History is littered with flawed heroes. How many signatures on the Declaration of Independence are from slave owners? Just for one example.

Personally, if his wife is happy to tell me that he was a good man with a good heart, I'll take her word over the clearly agenda-driven web site any time.
 
cmaly said:
Classic American response to a concert promoting global awareness: "we want none of it." "We'll pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for a rock concert... but don't you dare tell us that there is a global genocide happening. Give us our ipods, our beer, our suvs, and our music." It's a freakin' U2 concert!? What the hell do you expect? ZOO TV was irony... irony... irony. How quickly we forget that there's a world consumed by fear, death, and destruction. This is startling since the last time U2 were here, NYC was burning. How soon we forget... when I visited Ground Zero in 2001 I saw a sign that read, "We will never forget." And I thought, "How could we possibly forget." Apparently we do because now we're back to "gimmie, gimmie" which is exactly why those towers were attacked. Have some awareness for the love of God...or simply turn your ipod up louder to drown out potential cries of dying children.
Click to expand...

what most people have been discussing is the irony of u2 asking for awareness towards abject poverty while at the same time charing hundreds, if not thousands of doalls for a rock concert, iPod or t-shirt. clearly one can see why this would confuse some people. you talked about irony... well the fact that the iPods you tell people to turn up to "down out potential cries of dying children" are most likely U2 special editions.

and please... leave 9/11 out of this discussion.
 
i agree headache...i honestly dont think people have a problem with bono preaching about it...it clearly is an emergency...

cmaly,.i honestly dont think people have a problem with bono preaching about it...it clearly is an emergency... i think people are just annoyed that at a concert, where people after working all week or whatever theyve had to do, just wanna have fun and enjoy themselves and not have to listen to it....i personally dont think its that overbearing after hearing the bootlegs...i can see both sides of this argument...i actually thought bono was gonna bring it up more during the show but he only really talks about it during streets,one and at the end of pride i think..
 
P-T-P said:
Okay, my first post.

Been a fan since way back when, first show when I was still a puppy and my mum made my big brother take me to Phoenix Park with him for the day as my cousin couldn't use his ticket 'cause he had the mumps!

I can totally understand those who are saying they just want to be entertained (or words to that effect). Maybe we should try to draw up a hypothetical setlist of songs which have no foundation in Bono's socio-political ideals... Pride? Nope. Streets? Nope. New Year's Day? Nope. SBS? Nope. Bullet? Nope. R2SS? Nope. LAPOE? Nope. One? Nope. Electric Co.? Nope and so on.

My point is, I guess, if it's simply entertainment you're looking for, as much as you're entitled to try to find it there, a U2 gig isn't the place for it. A huge portion of their work, including much of their very best, comes from what Bono and the boys believe. The very lifeblood of U2 is the world that surrounds them, their interaction in it and reaction to it. Plain and simple.

It doesn't make you a bad person to just want to be entertained for your $$$, just maybe a little naive to expect simple pleasure. As much as their music is a product and we're the consumers it's every bit as much an art form, a commentary on the world and it's role is not solely one of distraction. It is thought provoking, uplifting and much more besides. Sometimes it's uncomfortable and disturbing, sometimes irritating.

Those of us who are the more crazed fans (which is most of us here one would suspect) are going to be familiar with a lot of the messages, but as popular as forums like this are, there were what, 15,000 at each San Diego gig, yet I don't see 15,000 people rushing here to recod their reactions. The point being that for as many as have heard it alll before, untold times more who haven't. If he can reach out to those people by yelling Africa a couple of times and make them go away determined to make a difference, WTF is wrong with that really?

And a lot of posts here, from both sides of the argument, have demonstrated that there's still very much a huge misconception of the problem and what he is proposing as a solution to it. #1 being that it doesn't involve you putting your hand into your pocket and forgoing the extra beer at the bar tonight or whatever.

Talk of Bono's millions. Literally would be a drop in the ocean. $300m gross for the tour, (to be split 5 ways once all the costs are taken out), over the course of a year's work. It would cover about a month or so of the debt repayments made by African countries to Europe and the US.

So for a month they don't have to pay the debt (debt accumulated by Western leaders giving shedloads of cash to corrupt dictators to build their palaces and so on, not to actually feed, clothe or educate anyone); but what happens next month then?

No one person can make even the slightest dent in these problems alone. $300m would be a half pint of gas when you're trying to drive around the world 10 times.

While on the topic though, Bono's not being a hypocrite, he's not asking you to give up everything you've got, just think about how your government spends your tax dollars and ask could that money be better spent.

So those of you who think you know all the issues and therefore don't need to hear about it again, the majority of you don't so maybe do some research or listen to the man for the perhaps 60 seconds or so where he actually talks about it during the gig.

One person made a great point in criticism of the "preaching" and that was, a rock concert is not the place for the poiliticizing. And I guarantee you, 100% that Bono and the band would agree with you. With the exception that the place(s) for it, in this particular aspect of world politics, are failing miserably to do what it takes to get the job done.

He's asking you to make sure that the real powerbrokers, the only ones who can make a difference, talk about it and address the problem.

It's your choice to take it or leave it, love it or hate it, listen or tune out, but until the world leaders make a stand, from my point of view, he can preach all he wants.

Sorry for the long post guys.
Click to expand...

Welcome P-T-P - nice to meet you. That's the most sensible first post I have seen so far!
 
We have a term here in Britain for these people who have a bug
up their arse about America, they are called Champaigne Socialist.

Americans donate more $$$ privately per capital than any other
country. They have more solidiers deployed throughout the worlds hot spots. A good part of the world lives under the protection of the American Defense umbrella without cost to
their countries. Medical advancements done by US pharmaceutical
compaines at great expense benefit the world.

I can go on. The point here is that Bono is free to carry on about
whatever he wants - and if soneone thinks it's not the time
or place for it - they are free to think that. And if people want to
intepert that as a"classic American response" - it's likely because
they have an inferiority complex, a lack of understanding of
history, i can go on.

Going to a concert and buying into whatever is being preached,
signing a petition, it's fool hearted to think supporting that or not
supporting that is going to make a real difference.

World Hunger- easily solved, but Europe by and large won't allow
the use of genetically enginered food in africa -

Poverty - how many of these countries are corrupt and could care less about their people.

AIDS- more can be done, but a good part of it is behavioral.
why is there not more backlash against UN workers who
go to these third world countries, and offer food for sex to the
locals and spread diseas

WAR- some of these clans and tribes have been at war for centuries.

There have been funds set up to help these ldcs/3rd world countries that have existed for 20 plus years- and guees how
many of them are no longer third world countries-NONE.

The idea that anyone thinks signing a petition to throw $$$
and these probles will solve them is foolheareted.

And the idea that if American does not buy into all of this-
that someonelse from somewhere else calls it "classic american
response" is crap. especially since america has likely spent a good
deal of treasue and lost alot of blood to help their countries.
But if it makes ithem feel better about themselves- good for them
as pathetic as that is.

it's just funny how some sad people will take any opportuninty
to take a shot at america.
After the TSunami - the world was carrying on it should not have
taken Bush so long to make a statement.
None of those people who criticsed Bush - even thought to criticize Kofi Anan who kept on skiing for several days.
It's funny how that the same people who knock america,
are the first to want a handout.

I am happy that Bono will wast some time carrying on about what
ever. perfect opportunity to take a piss.
 
So mistafadedglory, I am curious. As we will "make no difference" with our support, what precisely would you suggest as the way forward?

Personally, I don't swallow all that suff about how "we'll never make a difference".
 
I don't have all the answers.
But a big part of it is the UN.
It's little more than a social club for gangsters.
People are being persecuted all over africa for religious reasons-
the UN does nothing.
If anyone country dare act without UN constent, especially
America, God forbid.
And alot of these countries that are free and democratic,
who you would think would want to take action won't.
It's often not in their best interest -
they do not want to risk lucrative business contracts.
they can not ake a position in their country when their unemployment rate is anywhere form 8 -13%- it's not politacaly
viabel.
Their the first to bitch for change and often the last to want to
make any real sacrafice.

I will find it ironic and laughable when I am at Madison Square
Garden and Bono carries on about whatever cause (much of
which i may agree with, but don't feel the need to hear it at a concert), that some fat ass form the UN is having dinner at The
Palm across town is double parked, has little regard for paying
their parking tickets- let alone what is going on in Africa or
wherever.
It's the cold reallity of the world we live in.
Raising your fist in the air in agreement with Bono,
and in many cases throwing $$$ at the problem,
is not likley to fix things.
 
mistafadedglory said:
World Hunger- easily solved, but Europe by and large won't allow
the use of genetically enginered food in africa -


Click to expand...

I could respond at length to the inaccuracies in your post but do not have time.

But I will address this point - world hunger is not the result of production scarcity but of distribution inequity. The world produces enough food to feed everyone WITHOUT needing to resort to genetically engineered food to boost production.
 
Dianey said:


I could respond at length to the inaccuracies in your post but do not have time.

But I will address this point - world hunger is not the result of production scarcity but of distribution inequity. The world produces enough food to feed everyone WITHOUT needing to resort to genetically engineered food to boost production.
Click to expand...

Ask the European members on this forum if they're old enough to remember the phrase "butter mountain" and "wine lake"

And don't even get started on the restrictive trade practices of the EEC.....
 
mistafadedglory...

I think you're correct that America gets a bad rap sometimes, but for all the private philanthropy in America, it still only comes in 15th in the table of donators when measured against GDP. Take out the private donations and the US is last among all the wealthy nations. Bush gets it sometimes because he makes promises and then reneges on them or doesn't see them through fully. After the recent budget I saw a graph which demonstrated the consistent shortfalls between what he promises to deliver and then actually does deliver, I'll try and find it.

Aside from that though, when it comes to Bono and criticism of America, you haven't really listened to all he's said. He frequently appeals to America's greatness and the #1 reason for turning to America is because it is the one remaining superpower and where it goes others will follow.

As to corrupt African nations, again, you've missed a key point. DATA stands for Debt, AIDS, Trade in Africa but also Democracy, Accountability, Transparency in Africa. Basically you don't govern right you don't get the money. The Ugandas get assistance, the Zimbabwes don't. It's a two pronged attack, stick and carrot.

The biggest problem of all is the misconception that this is all about throwing $$$ at the problem. It's so much more than that. There needs to be a complete change in attitude both in the way assistance is given and in the way countries that receive it get that assistance.

The reason all these aid funds you talk of fail is because for every $ of aid that gets given, for years and years the countries receiving the aid were paying as much back in loan repayments to western countries, loans given to corrupt regimes without ever making sure that money was spent on the people (which it invariably never was).

Only two things will reverse the problem, western governments taking a stand and African governments standing up and saying "no more" to corruption.

One thing it's not though is a political issue, at least in terms of party politics. It's a global problem and there is one very simple solution to it and all it takes is the will of governments to get it done. Governments won't care unless they think it matters to the people who vote for them, hence the need to raise awareness and ask voters to badger their leaders.

I'm assuming you're not actually saying, "I don't give a fuck about all these dying Africans," and Bono's not asking anyone to dedicate their lives to proving how much they care, just to think about it some, make a call, send a letter, make a difference and get on with your life.

sallycinnamon78 - Thanks :)
 
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