Steve Averill Q & A - 2 seperate Albums and re-issue of the complete backcatalogue?

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Speaking of WOWY, I think songs like AIWIY, Who's gonna ride..., Stay and Ground beneath her feet all owe to it. Hushed start, bittersweet love lyrics and the vocal/music explosion in the end.

Sort of like Pride, New Year's day, I still haven't found..., SATS, Kite all owe to Gloria. The anthem song with a powerful chorus with a prominent guitar.

It's also odd seeing Beautiful day getting praise while Vertigo gets slacked. They're both after the same thing: being a big, listener-friendly radio hit/single - something which, despite being officially higher on the charts, Discotheque never did, although I suspect it tried the very same thing.
 
I think because Beautiful Day achieves what Vertigo - and yes, Discotheque, which was meant to be the massive # 1 as well - couldn't. How do either Vertigo or Discotheque make you feel? How does that compare to Beautiful Day?

I think Discotheque has a feeling to it - but it's not something for everyone, which is why it wasn't a huge/memorable hit.

I think Vertigo is completely soul-free. It is memorable for it's riff, it's punchiness, energy etc but I doubt many people will ever attach it to anything personal - I don't know how they would.

Beautiful Day however oozes a feeling, I think. It just sounds and feels like light streaming into a room or whatever. Makes you feel like running outside and wrapping your arms around blah blah blah. THAT is what makes a classic pop song. Changes your mood, connects you straight to a feeling.

I don't feel guilty about my superficial existence when I listen to Discotheque, but sometimes it does make me feel like going out. I don't feel like I'm in a bit of a mental quandry/wrestling any demons when I listen to Vertigo, but sometimes it makes me feel like being down the front at a U2 concert.

Beautiful Day however...

Pulling that off is the holy grail of the pop song. Whether it's connecting on a sad level, or a happy level or whatever - it's the emotional connection. I think Vertigo and Discotheque are great additions to a mood you're already in: getting ready to hit the town (Discotheque), or, I dunno, going for a run (Vertigo) but they don't create or change it for you.
 
Earnie Shavers said:
I think because Beautiful Day achieves what Vertigo - and yes, Discotheque, which was meant to be the massive # 1 as well - couldn't. How do either Vertigo or Discotheque make you feel? How does that compare to Beautiful Day?

I think Discotheque has a feeling to it - but it's not something for everyone, which is why it wasn't a huge/memorable hit.

I think Vertigo is completely soul-free. It is memorable for it's riff, it's punchiness, energy etc but I doubt many people will ever attach it to anything personal - I don't know how they would.

Beautiful Day however oozes a feeling, I think. It just sounds and feels like light streaming into a room or whatever. Makes you feel like running outside and wrapping your arms around blah blah blah. THAT is what makes a classic pop song. Changes your mood, connects you straight to a feeling.

I don't feel guilty about my superficial existence when I listen to Discotheque, but sometimes it does make me feel like going out. I don't feel like I'm in a bit of a mental quandry/wrestling any demons when I listen to Vertigo, but sometimes it makes me feel like being down the front at a U2 concert.

Beautiful Day however...

Pulling that off is the holy grail of the pop song. Whether it's connecting on a sad level, or a happy level or whatever - it's the emotional connection. I think Vertigo and Discotheque are great additions to a mood you're already in: getting ready to hit the town (Discotheque), or, I dunno, going for a run (Vertigo) but they don't create or change it for you.


I'm not one to knock the Bomb, and I've come to appreciate Pop for its greatness, and I recognize weaknesses in all the albums, not least in ATYCLB........but I have to fully agree. Beautifully put, Beautiful Day is indeed a holy grail of a pop song.

Discotheque is great when you get the lyrics or if you get psyched for Boom-chas, but it's not monumental. Vertigo launched into fame because of its marketing, the iPod commercial, and, with ABOY, as a remnant of the punkish origins of HTDAAB....but not necessarily for the song itself.

There's a reason that Beautiful Day instantly became assimilated into the canon of U2 classics. It stirs the listener. For casual fans, it gives you that energized, positive feeling that Earnie describes. For diehards, it does that plus can be deeply appreciated for the memory of after the long wait post-Pop, with all its darkness and its beaten-voiced Bono.....and here comes this sound, this chorus of voices, transcendent guitar from Edge, and the return of the voice----all with that same stirring, positive feel that the song instills.

The Pop-Beautiful Day transition is so similar to the JT-Zoo Station transition....yet with a greater power in the new-image song.
 
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I'm not sure the Holly Evans quote carries much weight. First, I'm not sure that the majority of the detractors think U2 has been aiming their recent music at a specifically young crowd, just a more mainstream one. Maybe young people who are into Christian rock will think it's hip and cool, but I don't think the K-ROCK/Alternative Rawk crowd thinks U2 is dangerous enough. And beforeany one says that Vertigo is a rocker and is therefore meant for the kids, keep in mind that the 30-40 year old crowd were in their teens and 20's when Achtung Baby came out. Vertigo isn't anything challenging for them to listen to.

To my ears, the music from the last two albums, while certainly welcoming to fresh ears, is more Adult Oriented Rock than youth market, which was the target audience in the 90's. And combining this with what Earnie said in his post from earlier in the thread, they would be better served by aiming their music at the college radio ear; in other words a demographic that doesn't want it pre-packaged and spelled out for them, where the exploration of the music and lyrics is part of the fun. To be honest, the U2 of this decade just doesn't have the same mystique that drew all of us in originally, whether it was in the 80's or the 90's. They don't seem like anything to obsess over, from the lyrics to the song structures all the way to the album covers and band photos (with the exception of the much-more-artistically-executed-than-what-it-was-representing Deluxe Book for HTDAAB). While they may be past the point of being able to appear as "cool" as The White Stripes and The Killers, or as enigmatic as Radiohead and The Arcade Fire, they can at least take a step back and codify what they're doing into something a bit more subtle and, for lack of a better word, European (or lands even further east).

Here's hoping they bring some color back too, and that's directed at the music as well as Corbjin.
 
lazarus said:
I'm not sure the Holly Evans quote carries much weight. First, I'm not sure that the majority of the detractors think U2 has been aiming their recent music at a specifically young crowd, just a more mainstream one.

Yes, the age talk was my fault because I mentioned 13yr olds in reference to Bono's lyrics. Of course I don't think U2 are aiming at teens, more just a general MOR route. I was referring to the intelligence/thoughtfulness in regards to the lyrics. Direct is fine, but I think it's pretty obvious that his other distractions and the lesser time he spent in the studio last time around are effecting this part of his job. My guess is they're written fairly quickly and with less emotional investment than usual.

And I agree 110% with the rest of what you wrote, except I don't think they should deliberately aim anywhere anymore, nor should they need to. If 'U2' record and release a stunning album - a truly stunning one, not just one that receives a stunning amount of Grammy nominations - it will sell itself across mutiple demographics. They are, after all, U2. No-one else can reach so far without really trying.
 
Alright, let's subsitute "keeping in mind" for "aiming". I just agree that the goal shouldn't be to write a perfect 3 minute pop song that will be played on everyone's radio. It's an admirable goal, but one they already achieved. Move on to something else.
 
If they're producing 2 albums at the moment, odds are the "U2" project will be a traditional songwriting effort. And thank God for that. It's what they do best, and something they've showcased over the past 2 albums.
 
MrBrau1 said:
It's what they do best

I disagree. What they do best is surprise people with a new sound. That's what they've always excelled in, not writing mediocre songs with cliche subject matter.
 
Zootlesque said:


I disagree. What they do best is surprise people with a new sound. That's what they've always excelled in, not writing mediocre songs with cliche subject matter.

You haven't listened to enough U2. And from the sounds of it, music in general.

U2's greatest strength has always been their songwriting. They may hang a new hat on it once in a while, but the core is, and always has been the songwriting.

Some people can't see this. Most of this forum can't see this, as it's rarely a topic of discussion.

The whole "new sound" basis is just hollow.
 
MrBrau1 said:
You haven't listened to enough U2. And from the sounds of it, music in general.

Hahahahahaha :| There is no need for you to make assumptions about me, thankyouverymuch. :happy:

I'm not saying that they haven't written classic songs like Pride, With Or Without You, One etc. but the thing that kept them interesting for me over the years was their ability to be so unpredictable! They loved to surprise us. I like a lot of different artists and bands but U2 seriously stood out in my mind because of their talent in consistently pulling something new out of the hat.
 
The only surprise Radiohead have given me over the past 3 albums is the surprise that this was the same band that recorded "Fake Plastic Trees". I sure hope the new one is something I can actually listen to years after its release.
 
Zootlesque said:


Hahahahahaha :| There is no need for you to make assumptions about me, thankyouverymuch. :happy:

I'm not saying that they haven't written classic songs like Pride, With Or Without You, One etc. but the thing that kept them interesting for me over the years was their ability to be so unpredictable! They loved to surprise us. I like a lot of different artists and bands but U2 seriously stood out in my mind because of their talent in consistently pulling something new out of the hat.

There's nothing sonically innovative or progressive about "Pride" or "One" or "With Or Without You."

I've never listen to those songs and thought "Wow, this is the hip new sound all the kids are gonna love."

It was the passion of the performance that won me over. And as I've gotten older, I've come to realize that their songs are a perfect vessel for that. That's their thing.
 
MrBrau1 said:
There's nothing sonically innovative or progressive about "Pride" or "One" or "With Or Without You."

I agree. I never said those songs were surprising or anything new. :| All I said was even though I like those songs, it's their ability to surprise us that I consider their greatest strength.
 
Zootlesque said:


I agree. I never said those songs were surprising or anything new. :| All I said was even though I like those songs, it's their ability to surprise us that I consider their greatest strength.

After the "surprise" is out of the bag what do you have?

To look at all those great, great songs, and say the best they ever were was "surprising" is a discredit.
 
I think U2's greatest strength is simply making music that U2 fans enjoy. And apparently they have been doing that a lot better the past 2 go arounds than they did the 2 before that.

Some people just seem to be bitter about it.
 
What makes those songs exceedingly good is the simple, memorable songwriting. What makes them great is the feeling running through them. A random example: Love is Blindness is a very simple song, great songwriting - but it's that Edge guitar part that makes it a heartstopper. There's always something. With Pride - a moronically simple, but infinitely great song - it's the passion you can hear in it. It's why, despite it being so simple and I assume dead easy for most semi-competent bands to perform, it never sounds anywhere near as good when done by anyone else. With or Without You, it's not just the songwriting/melody/structure, but the delivery, both as a band and Bono as a singer. It gives you a great sense of exactly where the person is - 4am and you can't sleep, too tired to be angry or upset, just sort of drained. I think it is the key difference with U2. Name 20 other examples of fine, brilliant, top of the class songcraft over the history of modern pop music, and you could also name or find a bunch of more than serviceable covers for most of them, some that are even better than the original. It's almost as if their genius is that they are so timeless and transferable. But for U2, great cover versions a very few and far between - it's damn near impossible to replicate the songs perfectly because it's so difficult to mimic the 'thing' that they all have, whatever that may be for whichever song, even if technically you are bang on note for note and are in your own right a fantastic, creative, unique band. If you go the other route and deconstruct and turn it into something of your own - it almost always fails on that level too. Thats the key difference, I think. It's also what connects a song like Pride with a song like Slug.That's where U2's strength is, and, to just drop some of my anti-Bomb sentiments in there, it's where that album falls down. If those songs lack anything, if there is a singular thing that I find wrong with them, it's that in trying to write those classic, timeless, transferable pop songs, they've washed the 'thing' out of them in the process. I actually think it would be dead easy for someone else to do, say, All Because of You a hundred times better than U2 have done.

Anyway, as you were. It's the LP that I think is the ridiculous part of this Radiohead deal, not the early/free download release. It's what would be jacking up the price as well, and I bet 90% of people who purchase have no way of, and never will, play the fucking thing. What's the point of that?
 
Earnie Shavers said:
I think it's their ability to translate so much through otherwise fairly simple songwriting.



i agree, and i'd take this some place slightly further -- it's their ability to create a new emotional landscape using music.

i don't think there are words in the English language to describe the closing 45 seconds of "one," or the world of possibility and potential that suddenly materializes with the very first notes of "streets," or the complex naked vulnerability as "bad" climaxes into an unhappy orgasm of self-doubt, or when "beautiful day" lifts it's muddy boots to the sky or when the child inside the child lifts her head up and smiles at you because, sugar, she's gonna show her soul.

no one, but NO ONE, does this. these are emotions that exist at a point beyond language and intellect, and no one taps into that trembling, exhilerating realm better than U2.

the songs just take us there.
 
MrBrau1 said:
If they're producing 2 albums at the moment, odds are the "U2" project will be a traditional songwriting effort. And thank God for that. It's what they do best, and something they've showcased over the past 2 albums.

LOL good one man!
 
Irvine511 said:




i agree, and i'd take this some place slightly further -- it's their ability to create a new emotional landscape using music.

i don't think there are words in the English language to describe the closing 45 seconds of "one," or the world of possibility and potential that suddenly materializes with the very first notes of "streets," or the complex naked vulnerability as "bad" climaxes into an unhappy orgasm of self-doubt, or when "beautiful day" lifts it's muddy boots to the sky or when the child inside the child lifts her head up and smiles at you because, sugar, she's gonna show her soul.

no one, but NO ONE, does this. these are emotions that exist at a point beyond language and intellect, and no one taps into that trembling, exhilerating realm better than U2.

the songs just take us there.

:up:

great words Irvine.
 
Irvine511 said:




i agree, and i'd take this some place slightly further -- it's their ability to create a new emotional landscape using music.

i don't think there are words in the English language to describe the closing 45 seconds of "one," or the world of possibility and potential that suddenly materializes with the very first notes of "streets," or the complex naked vulnerability as "bad" climaxes into an unhappy orgasm of self-doubt, or when "beautiful day" lifts it's muddy boots to the sky or when the child inside the child lifts her head up and smiles at you because, sugar, she's gonna show her soul.

no one, but NO ONE, does this. these are emotions that exist at a point beyond language and intellect, and no one taps into that trembling, exhilerating realm better than U2.

the songs just take us there.

Amen. I don't even think that critiqueing U2 as musicians is valid because of precisely this point. From the very beginning of the band their focus has been on communicating emotion. They expressed the desire to reach directly to the heart with the music and they have proved over and over that the particular soundscape is only important in that it must be what is best at reaching people at that time. They never really talk in terms of exploring new sounds for the sake of the way they sound but rather for the effect they have on people. When they explore a genre of music it is not so much the particular sound they strive to get but the particular spirit or connection of that genre. As Adam once said they'll explore any sound they want and they'd do polka if that was what would connect. Their setlists are chosen in such a way as to take you on an emotional journey and hopefully leave you feeling cleansed by the end. Personally I feel that the more people try to pick them apart musically the more they miss the real magic of U2. No matter how cheesy Bono's lyrics may look on paper, when he sings them, they work. And for those who are saying there is no depth in the last two albums lyrically, I say look harder cause you must be missing a hell of a lot.

Dana
 
lazarus said:
I'm not sure the Holly Evans quote carries much weight. First, I'm not sure that the majority of the detractors think U2 has been aiming their recent music at a specifically young crowd, just a more mainstream one. Maybe young people who are into Christian rock will think it's hip and cool, but I don't think the K-ROCK/Alternative Rawk crowd thinks U2 is dangerous enough. And beforeany one says that Vertigo is a rocker and is therefore meant for the kids, keep in mind that the 30-40 year old crowd were in their teens and 20's when Achtung Baby came out. Vertigo isn't anything challenging for them to listen to.


Well, the quote is interesting because that's what the critics have been screaming for 7 years now: U2 wants the MTV demographics ! They dumbed their music down for the teens/new (read: YOUNG) fans ! The TV shows, the Ipod etc... it apparently all served that goal.
Which is, from what I can tell, the same thing they did in the 90's (just with different means, and less efort due to different circumstances) : get the new fans in, as well as keep the old fans. Considering the last two albums sales, I think at least the latter, if not the former, is working.

What's also interesing about the whole "sell! hit singles!" decade, the band didn't do that great in the hits/singles deparment. Take BD and Vertigo and what other hit single is there ? None. They had more big singles in the 80's and 90's. Something doesn't add up here.
Classics ? Currently it's 1:1 between the 90's and the 00's, and we still have one album to go. For all we know, this decade may yet bring another U2 classic. Or will it not be acknowledged as such in this "commercial" days ?


Personally I don't feel much more of a personal connection from listening to BD than I do when I hear Discotheque or Vertigo. They're all built from the same mould, and I think there are better songs on their respective albums - it's just they executed the "single/hit" mission on BD (which, basically, had the DNA of the decade, not just ATYCLB: have some classic elements of what you do best, slick it up in production and have a sprinkle - or a bit more in some cases - of something fresh) best. :shrug:
 
I would argue that WOWY is a very innovative song. Hearing that song on the radio when it came out was pretty startling in a lot ways: structure, arrangement, instrumentation. It sounded nothing like a hit song in the 80's, that's for sure. It sat alongside George Michael and Whitney Houston and Bon Jovi and sounded like nothing else. We take it for granted now, but WOWY is a fantastically strange song.

And as mentioned earlier, the song takes its time to unravel - it doesn't assume that the audience has an attention span of 15 seconds. That was a brilliant point. You can hear U2 nervous about OOTS, kicking up the dynamics as soon as possible.
 
Earnie Shavers said:
...it's just that albums like the Bomb have no room for anything else, and that's what this news has got me all excited over. The other U2. Not the 80s one or the 90s one as opposed to the 00s one, just the other one.
You make a good point. Fortunately, U2 seems to agree that they've taken the pop music made by four men in a room about as far as it can go, so I'd say that most of us are hoping that they go in a fresh and new direction...
 
Originally posted by Irvine511 ...and i want lots of tickets to shows up and down the East Coast.
...and hopefully shows that are more evenly distributed across the country. I live near the east coast, and the closest show to where I live was six hours away. I'm not begrudging multiple shows in larger cities, but when they did what I remember to be seven shows in the New York area (six in NYC and one in New Jersey, just 12 miles away from NYC), five shows in Chicago, and at least four shows in Boston, it made it tough to swallow when they couldn't do at least one show anywhere near my neck of the woods...
 
Irvine511 said:

no one taps into that trembling, exhilerating realm better than U2.

the songs just take us there.
Perfectly said.

The part of their music that makes them truly stand apart from everyone else is a gift from God, not a result of carefully calculated songwriting.
 

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