SOI autopsy - what went wrong?

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dudeman said:
I don't think bruce and neil are keeping folks attention or winning new folks over with their new music. Their contemporary releases have received some pretty lukewarm reviews. They're keeping attention by staying active and touring.

bruce seems to have steered clear of the technobabble, neil's foray into breaking new technological ground was that PONO thingamajig - that doesn't seem to have gone over too well. maybe not as bad as the U2+Apple release effort, but i've seen a few news stories portraying Neil as a grumpy old dude.

Point is, they've both made some cool music recently (like U2), but the things keeping those guys 'relevant' and finding new ears in the masses are those classic tunes they're responsible for, not 20 somethings digesting "Wrecking Ball" from front to back (great title track, btw, and a great live song, but the people are packing the stadium for a few other tunes, i imagine).

maybe teenagers and 20-somethings are still discovering the pleasures of "Harvest" and "Born to Run" (and always will) for themselves, and that's sustaining their popularity? the major difference, as i see it, is that they're not talking about winning new people over or maintaining 'relevance' with their new music the way U2 talks about it. They're dignified legacy acts who continue to make music they care about, i reckon, and there's nothing wrong with that. what would U2 need to do to find a groove like that?
Click to expand...

Do you really believe Songs of Innocence had any bigger positive effect than, say, Wrecking Ball did?

Are people buying tickets because they're really jonesing to see some acoustic Song for Someone?
 
Nick66 said:
You can disagree with the sentiment, of course...but I'm not quite sure "pretentious" is the word you're looking for in this case. :)
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Sure it is. Bono had teenage girls and they thought he was pretty cool. They're certainly weren't laughing at him when he left the room. You "tried" to be clever with your metaphor, but it didn't work out.
 
MrPryck2U said:
Sure it is. Bono had teenage girls and they thought he was pretty cool. They're certainly weren't laughing at him when he left the room. You "tried" to be clever with your metaphor, but it didn't work out.
Click to expand...

No, you just didn't understand it. The "metaphor" wasn't about Bono, it was about the band in general.

And I'm fairly certain you don't know what Bono's teenage girls friends say about him when he leaves the room. But the those girls do have a rock star Dad, so it's not quite equivalent to the point I'm making.

And in any event, I'm not sure you understand what pretentious means. Well, actually I'm certain you don't. Even if you think my "metaphor" was 100% wrong, and inapt, and ridiculous, it wouldn't be "pretentious".
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Do you really believe Songs of Innocence had any bigger positive effect than, say, Wrecking Ball did?

Are people buying tickets because they're really jonesing to see some acoustic Song for Someone?
Click to expand...

No. Not at all. I think we're probably in complete agreement.

My point is that people who lionize Broooce and Neil are doing so because of their respective PAST achievements. Their new output, as long as they don't release anything that's out and out embarrassing, is essentially irrelevant. People pay to hear 'Thunder Road' and 'Darkness on the Edge of Town' and 'Powderfinger' and 'Old Man'. Also Streets and SBS or whatnot. Theyre in similar situations. U2 just seem to rub folks the wrong way by being so obvious about their desire for relevance (whatever that means). Neil and Bruce make music they appear to love (like U2) and I hope they keep doing this (like U2). They just don't seem to get dinged for it like U2 does. Neil can release an album that gets shitty reviews, w songs that are bathroom breaks on the set lists, and the current musical journalist community doesn't seem to mind. The public too.

For some reason, U2 doesn't get this free pass. SOI isn't he equivalent of AB or JT, but I like it better than the Wrecking Ball album or anything Neil has done since - I don't know, I'm thinking way back here - that album with 'Fuckin Up' for example. Im sure he's had something cool since 1995 or whatever, but you get my point. People still love those guys and have decided they're off limits. Neil can even say total douchebag shit about vinyl's popularity and release high priced yuppie music machines and a lot of folks STILL won't say bad shit about him - they love that guy.

Now that I think about it, U2 are in a really unique position. The only HUGE, influential artist people will talk MASSIVE shit about, poop all over a reasonably good album, complain about the nonsense of it being foisted upon them (admittedly, a corny ass stunt- i love Nick66's recommendation for a better release btw), and they'll STILL sell out a tour and probably have the biggest and best tour of the year. And the new songs will be a big part of it.

My point: people are assholes and make no sense.
 
Nick66 said:
No, you just didn't understand it. The "metaphor" wasn't about Bono, it was about the band in general.

And I'm fairly certain you don't know what Bono's teenage girls friends say about him when he leaves the room. But the those girls do have a rock star Dad, so it's not quite equivalent to the point I'm making.

And in any event, I'm not sure you understand what pretentious means. Well, actually I'm certain you don't. Even if you think my "metaphor" was 100% wrong, and inapt, and ridiculous, it wouldn't be "pretentious".
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. Pretentious was wrong.
 
It's interesting.

As an American homosexual, I obviously have a lot of friends who enjoy the music of Madonna.

Their defense of her latest album's failure to go to #1 prompted many Facebook comments to take umbrage at ageism and sexism and the media obsession with her Gollum arms. Some mentioned that the tracks on Rebel Heart were better before she messed with them late in the mixing process. And, oh well, at least she'll have the highest grossing tour of the year. And fuck Gaga.

Also, she took a big stumble down the stairs. But in London, not NYC.

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but I did notice a lot of parallels.
 
Irvine511 said:
It's interesting.

As an American homosexual, I obviously have a lot of friends who enjoy the music of Madonna.

Their defense of her latest album's failure to go to #1 prompted many Facebook comments to take umbrage at ageism and sexism and the media obsession with her Gollum arms. Some mentioned that the tracks on Rebel Heart were better before she messed with them late in the mixing process. And, oh well, at least she'll have the highest grossing tour of the year. And fuck Gaga.

Also, she took a big stumble down the stairs. But in London, not NYC.

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but I did notice a lot of parallels.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the parallels in many ways are pretty striking. As a straight man who hangs out in Irish pubs, drinks quite a bit of Guinness and whose personal musical evolution stopped sometime around 2000, I obviously have a lot of friends who listen to U2.

It's just demonstrative of the near incomprehensible gibberish the most hardcore of hardcore fans will sink to in order to explain why everyone else doesn't seem to love their favourite artist as much as they do. It's the release method. It's the first single. They released it in the wrong season. It's because someone fell off a bike. It's because a promo tour got cut short. It's because they didn't get to do 5 nights on (insert favourite late night talk show here). It's because they didn't put (insert favourite b-side here) on the album. It's because they got bad advice from a record exec. It's because people hate the lead singer's philanthropy. It's because Pitchfork is out to get them. Any explanation, any at all, will suffice to explain why a particular record wasn't successful.

Any, that is, besides the suggestion that maybe people just didn't like the music that much. That's impossible. We "feel sorry" for people who don't see the genius in SOI.

But yeah, U2 will have the highest grossing tour of the year and anyway fuck Coldplay.
 
dudeman said:
No. Not at all. I think we're probably in complete agreement.

My point is that people who lionize Broooce and Neil are doing so because of their respective PAST achievements. Their new output, as long as they don't release anything that's out and out embarrassing, is essentially irrelevant. People pay to hear 'Thunder Road' and 'Darkness on the Edge of Town' and 'Powderfinger' and 'Old Man'. Also Streets and SBS or whatnot. Theyre in similar situations. U2 just seem to rub folks the wrong way by being so obvious about their desire for relevance (whatever that means). Neil and Bruce make music they appear to love (like U2) and I hope they keep doing this (like U2). They just don't seem to get dinged for it like U2 does. Neil can release an album that gets shitty reviews, w songs that are bathroom breaks on the set lists, and the current musical journalist community doesn't seem to mind. The public too.

For some reason, U2 doesn't get this free pass. SOI isn't he equivalent of AB or JT, but I like it better than the Wrecking Ball album or anything Neil has done since - I don't know, I'm thinking way back here - that album with 'Fuckin Up' for example. Im sure he's had something cool since 1995 or whatever, but you get my point. People still love those guys and have decided they're off limits. Neil can even say total douchebag shit about vinyl's popularity and release high priced yuppie music machines and a lot of folks STILL won't say bad shit about him - they love that guy.

Now that I think about it, U2 are in a really unique position. The only HUGE, influential artist people will talk MASSIVE shit about, poop all over a reasonably good album, complain about the nonsense of it being foisted upon them (admittedly, a corny ass stunt- i love Nick66's recommendation for a better release btw), and they'll STILL sell out a tour and probably have the biggest and best tour of the year. And the new songs will be a big part of it.

My point: people are assholes and make no sense.
Click to expand...

U2 is incredibly admirable in their effort to go against popular wisdom and continue to dominate the music scene with their new music. And to their credit, they've been able to do just that and keep their newest music relevant to the masses for longer than any other rock band in music history.

But there comes a time and a place where it just isn't a possibility anymore, no matter how good the product.

Maybe it is ageism. It's also reality.

How they respond going forward will be the difference between remaining respected or turning into a parody of themselves.
 
Hewson said:
So what are Madonna fans and U2 fans gonna do when AC/DC, Garth Brooks and Taylor Swift have the 3 highest grossing tours of 2015? :wink:
Click to expand...
:wink: Gonna have to deal with it. Those One Direction kids had the top tour last year, wouldn't be surprised if they got it again. Garth isn't releasing box office data from his tour.

I think U2 and Madonna will pull in $100 million easily. If they were worried about getting the top tour, Guy O. would have booked stadiums.
 
I really like SOI. I can't wait for the tour.

I dunno. Brainwashed? I'm just in it. I love them, and always will. I want to finish out this journey together.
 
Irvine511 said:
I really like SOI. I can't wait for the tour.

I dunno. Brainwashed? I'm just in it. I love them, and always will. I want to finish out this journey together.
Click to expand...

Same here
i hope someday to finally reveal to them (and the world) the "u" and "2" i had tattooed on my left & right buttocks.
 
To me the problem with SOI is the production. It's too commonplace. The songs are good, there're good melodies but they should've chosen the DM mix ala Invisible, a new wave sound, a little colder and rougher. As Mc Cormick said in his review they would've been much more rewarded if they've left their comfort zone...
What Bono was saying in 1994? "We shall continue to abuse our position and fuck up the mainstream! "
 
nesquick said:
To me the problem with SOI is the production. It's too commonplace. The songs are good, there're good melodies but they should've chosen the DM mix ala Invisible, a new wave sound, a little colder and rougher. As Mc Cormick said in his review they would've been much more rewarded if they've left their comfort zone...
What Bono was saying in 1994? "We shall continue to abuse our position and fuck up the mainstream! "
Click to expand...

While i agree with you, sadly that was a lifetime ago.

A baby born after he said that would now be able to drink, vote, & die for their country. Most would have graduated college or be close to it, and many more would be seeking employment. Some might even have babies themselves now.

21 years...time won't leave me as i am.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
U2 is incredibly admirable in their effort to go against popular wisdom and continue to dominate the music scene with their new music. And to their credit, they've been able to do just that and keep their newest music relevant to the masses for longer than any other rock band in music history.

But there comes a time and a place where it just isn't a possibility anymore, no matter how good the product.

Maybe it is ageism. It's also reality.

How they respond going forward will be the difference between remaining respected or turning into a parody of themselves.
Click to expand...

We are in complete agreeance. :up:

I'm still baffled by the notion that albums like 'Born to Run' and 'Harvest' can earn a free pass while a legacy that includes stuff like JT and AB hasn't done that for U2. It's not ageism- it's gotta be something in the way U2 goes about things. Whatever. I hope they don't stop.
 
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