Shuttlecock XVIII - SAVE US, REFU-JESUS

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BigMacPhisto said:
I will just never be able to wrap my head around anybody trying to convince themselves that these songs are anywhere near to even the standard they set for themselves in this century let alone the previous one.
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I'd love them to do something more akin to An Cat Dubh/Into the Heart. I'd rather one valiant attempt at that over a whole album of U2 trying to raise the spawn of a Taylor Swift and Chris Martin sleepover.
 
LemonMelon said:
Ehhh for my money there are more truly great, creative songs on NLOTH than HTDAAB. A lot of nice U2-sounding stuff on HTDAAB, but it's severely lacking in classic tracks. COBL maybe?
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Oh, I actually think NLOTH is the better record, but the best five songs or so from HTDAAB are miles above anything on that record. Stand Up Comedy aside (which is completely indefensible given that why would anybody who seeks out U2 want to hear that?), No Line doesn't really have much that's truly terrible. "Yahweh" is like the only post-ABOY track on HTDAAB with anything going for it. And good lord, All Because of You has aged pretty horribly whenever I think about it. Unlistenable to the max.

But I'll take the first five songs on HTDAAB over, say, Fez and Crazy Tonight and Breathe.

And, yes, COBL is an absolute U2 classic at this point. Let's not kid ourselves. Fair enough if you don't really dig it, but the vast majority of people obviously do. Song got a much better reaction live from the crowd than the new stuff on the NLOTH and SOI tours.
 
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BigMacPhisto said:
They are when you take like five fucking years to put out a new LP. There's also little in common between any of these musically which is kind of surprising given how quickly they had begun writing for SOE and already had some tracks on the back burner from the previous sessions. Say what you will about SOI but they were at least trying to reach for the stars like usual. SOE is them just putting out a cheese burger since they feel that will appeal to the most people.
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Yeah an era isn't five or three years.
 
BigMacPhisto said:
They are when you take like five fucking years to put out a new LP. There's also little in common between any of these musically which is kind of surprising given how quickly they had begun writing for SOE and already had some tracks on the back burner from the previous sessions. Say what you will about SOI but they were at least trying to reach for the stars like usual. SOE is them just putting out a cheese burger since they feel that will appeal to the most people.
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Dude, you haven't even heard SOE yet. No one has. We've heard like 4-5 songs out of a 13 song album(and Little Things was only live). What if the first songs we heard from SOI were The Miracle, Volcano, and SFS, and you wrote the whole thing off based on that without having heard the rest?

I'll agree that I'm not wild about the collective portion we've heard so far, but there's a lot more to hear.
 
I do like that someone finally placed Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own up there with U2's best of the century. That's a really nice song and the bridge/outro goes somewhere special.
 
kiwilad said:
I'd love them to do something more akin to An Cat Dubh/Into the Heart. I'd rather one valiant attempt at that over a whole album of U2 trying to raise the spawn of a Taylor Swift and Chris Martin sleepover.
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I mean, there's basically a level of quality where music becomes meaningless, especially for those of us that listen to a lot of new music. There's no difference between a completely shitty U2 album or a completely mediocre U2 album. Either way, it's not relevant and not something we want to come back to and keep as part of our library.

So, absolutely, why wouldn't you want a U2 album with a truly awesome song and a bunch of complete turds over one with 11 midly listenable numbers? Final score is always going to be 1-to-0 from my perspective.

Obviously, it's a different story when we're talking about a band putting out a mixed bag album with incredible highs versus one putting out a consistently very good album...but U2 is no longer capable of the latter, so the argument holds no sway as far as they're concerned.
 
I mean, I guess you can make the counter-argument fairly easily that their newer stuff is so generic guitar-wise that it's actually the opposite of what I was saying. I'll buy that.

But they just literally gave the fuck up. I mean, all anybody has to do is listen to No Code and then listen to any of the releases that came after it...Yield, Binaural and Riot Act are all at least trying to varying degrees (and sure, maybe even better albums) and then there's basically nothing after that.
 
We started with a few Simpsons gags and this is what I come back to?

For shame.
 
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LemonMelon said:
I do like that someone finally placed Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own up there with U2's best of the century. That's a really nice song and the bridge/outro goes somewhere special.
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:rolleyes:

That chorus is abysmally adult contemporary. The weakest track on ATYCLB & The Bomb combined, musically it's barely existent or memorable. Sorry but I need more than a passionate vocal. Hearing this song was literally the first time I was like "WTF is this shit?" after 10 years of being a fan.
 
lazarus said:
:rolleyes:

That chorus is abysmally adult contemporary. The weakest track on ATYCLB & The Bomb combined, musically it's barely existent or memorable. Sorry but I need more than a passionate vocal. Hearing this song was literally the first time I was like "WTF is this shit?" after 10 years of being a fan.
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I find myself halfway between the two of you.

Opinions are opinions of course, but I never understand ferocity towards harmless (maybe boring or weak) songs. It's rather middle of the pack to me. I'd rather it than a lot of garbage between those two albums.
 
lazarus said:
:rolleyes:

That chorus is abysmally adult contemporary. The weakest track on ATYCLB & The Bomb combined, musically it's barely existent or memorable. Sorry but I need more than a passionate vocal. Hearing this song was literally the first time I was like "WTF is this shit?" after 10 years of being a fan.
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That's harsh imo. The song takes a little too long to get going, but once the song takes off, everything from the bridge/middle 8 onward is really good, takes on a classic U2 sound.
 
lazarus said:
The weakest track on ATYCLB & The Bomb combined
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Jeez, when Grace and Original of the Species (which gave me the same "WTF is this shit" moment you mentioned, just later on the album) exist? The lyrics alone put Sometimes up a tier. There are songs on HTDAAB I like more, of course, but worst across both albums is ridiculous.

Also, not sure what I said to provoke a :rolleyes: . I just think the song is really nice is all.
 
LemonMelon said:
Jeez, when Grace and Original of the Species (which gave me the same "WTF is this shit" moment you mentioned, just later on the album) exist? The lyrics alone put Sometimes up a tier. There are songs on HTDAAB I like more, of course, but worst across both albums is ridiculous.

Also, not sure what I said to provoke a :rolleyes: . I just think the song is really nice is all.
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Re: OOTS. I didn't much care for it for a long time, but I've listened to it a few times recently and it's growing on me. It's not great, but it's got a pretty melody.

It has its flaws, to be sure. The lyrics are repetitive and probably not as deep as they want to be.

And that middle section where Bono won't shut up and do-do-do's over the instrumentation is so obnoxious it nearly brings the whole thing down.

But it's inoffensive and innocuously pretty on the whole.
 
I love that one of the loudest and most predictable detractors of 2000s U2 - one who so persistently seeks a rise out of this forum that I hope I love the new album so that I'm not grouped with him - just named Stuck and SYCMIOYO in his top five, two of the very worst examples of the era. They are trite and so very dull, which is all the more egregious because of how much emotion is meant to be in them. They should be deeply affecting and, for me anyway, they aren't at all. SYCMIOYO is a sleeping pill and Stuck is the worst of early 2000s commercial pop radio.
 
OOTS and Grace have musical character, for better or worse. Sometimes doesn't. It's as simple as that. Take the dead father element out of Sometimes and you don't have much left. Yes, the outro has some passion, but it's somnambulant up until Bono's big "opera" moment.
 
I spent the last week or so in the desert. Apparently there is a Philly show this time around. Do I have a chance to buy tickets as a non-fan club member? I'm seeing a lot of anxiety about tickets and don't understand what is happening.
 
lazarus said:
OOTS and Grace have musical character, for better or worse. Sometimes doesn't. It's as simple as that. Take the dead father element out of Sometimes and you don't have much left. Yes, the outro has some passion, but it's somnambulant up until Bono's big "opera" moment.
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Somnambulant - niiice. I’m with you on this one. While I️ can appreciate the sentiment behind the song, the execution is waaay too saccharine.
 
I hadn't heard Sometimes in years, and never cared for it much but reading the thread it dawned on me...this was about his father. Of course. I had inexplicably forgotten about that song lately.

My dad died 2 weeks ago. He is/was the reason for my passion in music. I lived with him and took care of him as his health failed him. I am forcing myself to confront it and deal with it. Pretty well emotionally spent by now...but it is what it is.

So I just listened to both versions for the first time in years. My impressions are the same as they ever were, I suppose. The album cut is overwrought and doesn't strike me as anything but forced. Even as I sit here feet away from where I saw my own father take his last breath (he was home on hospice).

But the alternate AKA the original, feels much more sincere and meaningful. Tasteful. Listening to the album version, I didn't even really notice the "house don't make a home/don't leave me here alone" because I was being inundated with "this is the BIG moment!" but in the alternate, it was the only thing that almost made me cry. 'Sometimes' on the album is like the final minutes of Schindler's List with Neeson on the train tracks and John Williams cueing up the "this is where you're supposed to cry" moment. Distracting. The original feels much more real. Raw. Not a great song anyway...but it is more impacting.

Anyhow...I am always loathe to share personal things here or on other forums but I thought it was a unique enough perspective to share. I'm 42, I think Bono was 41 or 42 when his dad died. Him being a hugely famous and rich rock star and me being a nobody doesn't mean anything. Its the same thing. Your dad is your dad. Some didn't get a good one. Fortunately I did.

My dad loved Streets. Particularly the ZooTV version. Among others he loved Exit from Rattle and Hum. Years ago (like 1993/94?) he'd catch me watching the Sydney VHS and watch it with me. He liked the theatrics of Daddy's Gonna Pay. Yeah, I indoctrinated him with some U2 (and occasionally some REM, Pearl Jam etc.). And he gave me my love of so many things...from the Beatles to Neil Diamond among many others. Forgive me and indulge me here, folks. I haven't been around much lately. Been a rough period.

It's a shame Sometimes is not a better song. Take the personalized emotional element out and it's pretty contrived. Thin and schmaltzy. It just doesn't 'get there'. While somehow every single song about his mother does. From IWF to Iris.
 
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U2DMfan said:
I hadn't heard Sometimes in years, and never cared for it much but reading the thread it dawned on me...this was about his father. Of course. I had inexplicably forgotten about that song lately.

My dad died 2 weeks ago. He is/was the reason for my passion in music. I lived with him and took care of him as his health failed him. I am forcing myself to confront it and deal with it. Pretty well emotionally spent by now...but it is what it is.

So I just listened to both versions for the first time in years. My impressions are the same as they ever were, I suppose. The album cut is overwrought and doesn't strike me as anything but forced. Even as I sit here feet away from where I saw my own father take his last breath (he was home on hospice).

But the alternate AKA the original, feels much more sincere and meaningful. Tasteful. Listening to the album version, I didn't even really notice the "house don't make a home/don't leave me here alone" because I was being inundated with "this is the BIG moment!" but in the alternate, it was the only thing that almost made me cry. 'Sometimes' on the album is like the final minutes of Schindler's List with Neeson on the train tracks and John Williams cueing up the "this is where you're supposed to cry" moment. Distracting. The original feels much more real. Raw. Not a great song anyway...but it is more impacting.

Anyhow...I am always loathe to share personal things here or on other forums but I thought it was a unique enough perspective to share. I'm 42, I think Bono was 41 or 42 when his dad died. Him being a hugely famous and rich rock star and me being a nobody doesn't mean anything. Its the same thing. Your dad is your dad. Some didn't get a good one. Fortunately I did.

My dad loved Streets. Particularly the ZooTV version. Among others he loved Exit from Rattle and Hum. Years ago (like 1993/94?) he'd catch me watching the Sydney VHS and watch it with me. He liked the theatrics of Daddy's Gonna Pay. Yeah, I indoctrinated him with some U2 (and occasionally some REM, Pearl Jam etc.). And he gave me my love of so many things...from the Beatles to Neil Diamond among many others. Forgive me and indulge me here, folks. I haven't been around much lately. Been a rough period.

It's a shame Sometimes is not a better song. Take the personalized emotional element out and it's pretty contrived. Thin and schmaltzy. It just doesn't 'get there'. While somehow every single song about his mother does. From IWF to Iris.
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Thanks for sharing that, and I don't just say that because we agree! I've seen a fair number of posts where people attach a lot of meaning to a particular song because of a life-changing event, so it's...refreshing? to hear someone not being able to connect to something despite how relevant it is.

My own mother died when I was fairly young, around the age the same thing happened to Bono, but it wasn't anything sudden and the result of a long sickness. I don't think about it very often, and rarely relate anything from films or music to my situation. And I don't feel my life was upended by it in the way Bono's was. But out of all the "mother" songs I find Wake Up Dead Man powerfully moving.

Jesus
Were you just around the corner?
Did you think to try and warn her?
Were you working on something new?
If there's an order
In all of this disorder
Is is like a tape recorder?
Can we rewind it just once more?

This is one of the best things he's ever written, and relatable to anyone unable to let go of the past, a deep desire to return back to a moment when someone was still there or an alternate path was still possible. It's not something that makes me think of my own mother but it makes me empathetic for those like Bono who still hurt in that way.

Having said all that, it's not just the lyric. The music in WUDM is so gorgeously stark, one feels the Ennio Morricone vibes but it's blended with the otherworldly found often throughout Pop. With Sometimes, one feels like Bono wanted to write a song about Bob and the band pleasantly accompanied his lyrics with tasteful schmaltz.
 
BigMacPhisto said:
Good lord, this album is surely going to be a flat-out zero...can't wait to see Rolling Stone and the band's media friends give it 5-star reviews while everyone else (rightfully) goes in for the kill.
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The fact that you start your post thinking about the critics; shock and awe.

:lmao:
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Welp... Come Back and Inside Job are two of my favorite PJ songs.

I can't exactly see how one would think their more modern releases skip melody in favor of guitar riffs... that seems backwards to me.

But alas... there's always therapy.
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Exactly.

I tried having a conversation about melody with this poster awhile back, it was quite clear he skipped that day of class.
 
BVS said:
The fact that you start your post thinking about the critics; shock and awe.

:lmao:
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Well, I consider the listeners in this thread to be of the same mindset as these music critics. As in, they listen to a lot of music and will be particularly bored by this new LP. I don't think you really need a platform to have a relevant opinion on the band's later work. I do think your opinion is basically meaningless if you just aren't that involved with listening to new music whatsoever as anything brand new from your favorite artists will feel like a huge break from the monotony of life. It's comfort food for these people and it never surprises me when the albums basically tank in the song and album polls around here in the years following their release. The hype factor was always going to overwhelm any objectivity.

I'm not really coming in here to start an argument, but I weirdly did have to defend myself so much around here for not liking SOI which is just strange because it was always just an opinion. Then god forbid I point out the reality of the consumer and critical communities both finding that album to be a turkey and I get dog-piled for it. With that kind of blind loyalty reaction on Interference for such mediocrity, you'd figure Songs of Innocence arrived straight from Chappaqua.

And it's even weirder that my dislike for that album has made me a "detractor of 2000s U2" in some people's mind when it's basically the opposite. I consider All That You Can't Leave Behind to be their second best album and the best U2 material from the next 9 years stood out among the best music I was hearing from anyone, period. My love for this band's new material basically fell off a cliff circa 2014 and before that I was one of the forum's biggest proponents of their 00s work.
 
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