Roe from Roe V. Wade Files Motion to Overturn Ruling

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Martha, if you had a siamese twin, should you be allowed to murder her? If not, why not? Shouldn't you have the right to do with your own internal organs as you please?
 
Just a friendly reminder, as we are all fully aware, this is a controversial topic which may have a personal significance to some. Please lets keep that in mind when we put forward our views.

On another note, 80's - Martha has never once said anywhere that she condones murder. Murder being the killing of a fully developed human, adult or otherwise. Her views are the polar opposite to yours on this, and while you may see it as murder in abortion, others dont. To imply someone is a murderer can be highly offensive. I'm trying to play devil's advocate as I'm sure the contrary view is somewhat (perhaps more than somewhat) offensive to you.
 
Angela, you're right that I did not take into consideration that it may have personal significance for some. But it cuts both ways. Maybe there is a reason I am so opposed to abortion, and maybe that causes me to take offense at the view of a living human child as simply a mother's "internal organs". No one would know that, unless I stated it.

If it came across as me calling somone a murderer, I am sorry. I do not wish to call anyone a murderer, and I don't believe I did. However, abortion is a big problem in this country, and I see abortion as murder, so how can I call it something else? It's not the first time I have said it, and others have said it. I do not agree with your opinion that murder is "the killing of a fully developed human, adult or otherwise". That's not in my dictionary.

I think that if both sides of the argument are not allowed to freely express their opinion on this subject in this forum, abortion should not even be allowed to be talked about.
 
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80's I understand completely that there are definately 2 ways to be offended in a topic like this. I know what you are saying. Fwiw the comment about "the killing of a fully developed human, adult or otherwise" was in regard to your example with siamese twins. Not about aborting an unborn fetus, which was in response to what Martha had been saying in here. I dont want to drag this on, but I hope what I meant is clearer. Your views cant be wrong, I dont think anyone's can be, especially when someone's views are based on a very personal experience. Just like those who support it, those who are against it can have their own painful reasons for it to be how or why they view it like that. Its a topic that can rarely be discussed without emotion coming into play.
 
80sU2isBest said:
However, abortion is a big problem in this country, and I see abortion as murder, so how can I call it something else? I
Click to expand...

The key words here are "I see." If you see abortion as that, then you are entitled to your opinion. I will absolutely defend your right to your opinion. However, when you try to enforce your opinions as laws that affect my body, that's where I draw the line.
 
martha said:


Just like when you try to make my decisions for me. You have no rights when it comes to my internal organs or the functions of them. Period. The end.
Click to expand...

:up: right on
 
martha said:


The key words here are "I see." If you see abortion as that, then you are entitled to your opinion. I will absolutely defend your right to your opinion. However, when you try to enforce your opinions as laws that affect my body, that's where I draw the line.
Click to expand...

Martha, there are all kinds of laws that affect your body, like
anti-prostituion laws, drug laws, etc. Would you like to do away with all those?

Besides, if that fetus is a living human being, then "choice" affects him/her also. Are you prepared to say that there should be no laws that affect your body, even if it means killing another life?
 
Martha, there are all kinds of laws that affect your body, like
anti-prostituion laws, drug laws, etc. Would you like to do away with all those?

Besides, if that fetus is a living human being, then "choice" affects him/her also. Are you prepared to say that there should be no laws that affect your body, even if it means killing another life?
Click to expand...

Anti-prostitution laws and drug laws are not laws that regulate your body. A woman can have sex with whomever she seems fit, but cannot solicit herself, has nothing to do with her body. And drug laws legislate selling and pocession not use. So that argument won't stand.

The second argument is one that will probably be argued until the end of existence. Even you say "if that fetus is a living human being". With that you are assuming everyone believes this to be true, but not everyone does therefore not everyone believes it's "killing" another life.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

And drug laws legislate selling and pocession not use. So that argument won't stand.
Click to expand...

Not true. I used to work for a police department. Illegal drug usage is illegal. Public Intox is illegal, also, even if you don't have the alcohol in hand.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

The second argument is one that will probably be argued until the end of existence. Even you say "if that fetus is a living human being". With that you are assuming everyone believes this to be true, but not everyone does therefore not everyone believes it's "killing" another life.
Click to expand...

Do non-living human beings suck their thumbs?
 
80sU2isBest said:


Not true. I used to work for a police department. Illegal drug usage is illegal. Public Intox is illegal, also, even if you don't have the alcohol in hand.
Click to expand...

So you could arrest an individual for drug use in their own home, without pocession, disturbance, etc.? Public intoxication is not legislation to control that persons body, it's the control of someone's behavior.
 
martha said:


The key words here are "I see." If you see abortion as that, then you are entitled to your opinion. I will absolutely defend your right to your opinion. However, when you try to enforce your opinions as laws that affect my body, that's where I draw the line.
Click to expand...

Society won't let you kill yourself, so you do not have sole, absolute and exclusive control.
 
Fizizng, a human being cannot give life to a primate. My point is that if it sucks its' thumb, it's living, and if it's a living creature inside a woman, it is a human being.
 
I will weigh in with my very unpopular opinion.

Up until the day I heard the heartbeat for the first time of my first child, I was convinced pro-choice was right. My wife and I walked out of the appointment and we had a conversation. Our opinion at that point was no longer certain.

Then came the ultra-sound. From that day forward, I changed my opinion. I cannot support the right of a woman to choose. I believe that the baby has rights too. I believe that it is alive.

However, that said, that is not why I started the thread to debate a topic we have argued in this forum before. I am curious about your opinions on the merits of this case. Can an individual change their mind and want the case re-examined? I actually like the Brown V Board of education argument? At first it seems silly, and yes, the cases are very different. But I like the idea that deep in hell was making.

This to me has many ramifications. I was not aware that people who won cases can ask for them to be rexamined later on. Maybe I am silly. If this is correct could the person who eliminated school prayer change their mind too?
 
Dreadsox said:
I am curious about your opinions on the merits of this case. Can an individual change their mind and want the case re-examined?
Click to expand...

Personally, I think this is a bunch of grandstanding by the anti-choice crowd. They've got a live one here, and they're going to play it for all its worth. Especially with those conservative Justices.
 
martha said:


You are welcome to change your mind as far as your situation. You cannot make my decisions for me. Fortunately, you are as protected in your decisions as I am in mine.
Click to expand...

I have not attempted to change yours. I really do not think many people come here to Free their Mind. Seriously, do you think, anyone in here changes their core values in here?

I would however like to discuss what I wrote in the other paragraphs.

Peace

School is out today here by the way!!!! I am changing grades. 3rd.
 
Dreadsox said:

However, that said, that is not why I started the thread to debate a topic we have argued in this forum before. I am curious about your opinions on the merits of this case. Can an individual change their mind and want the case re-examined? I actually like the Brown V Board of education argument? At first it seems silly, and yes, the cases are very different. But I like the idea that deep in hell was making.

This to me has many ramifications. I was not aware that people who won cases can ask for them to be rexamined later on. Maybe I am silly. If this is correct could the person who eliminated school prayer change their mind too?
Click to expand...



We have had many threads on abortion.

This is about undoing SC decissions.


If Mr. Miranda became a ?tough on crime? advocate.

Should he have the right
to have the Miranda decision overturned?

I did take the time to read the affidavit on the smoking gun site, it is 11 pages not 10. I also read one from 2000.

In the 11-page affidavit she says she did not realize she was ending a life. She says they told her she just needed a procedure so she could have her periods again. She claims she did not understand she was pregnant. This was her 3rd abortion?, she already had children, she did not know she was pregnant?
I think the affidavit is either falsehoods or
the words of an unstable person.

Btw, when I went to Phoenix last June, I got the Deep in hell, username.
 
Dreadsox said:


School is out today here by the way!!!! I am changing grades. 3rd.
Click to expand...

You're pretty smart for a 3rd grader! :wave:
 
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martha said:


If. Again, your opinion.
Click to expand...

Martha, if my opinion is right, millions of innocent human lives have been slaughtered since 1973, with the government's approval.
 
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