request for advice and support

[For Honor]

well, if anyone cares, I wussed out over sending the letter until just now. I can't believe I pressed the send button. Minor panic attack. Dreading the phone call to follow. But it has to be done. Sul's visa interview was today and if for some reason he can get his visa asap, we could be leaving mali within the month. Better to alert my parents to his existence before I call them from the USA and say, hi...i moved back to the states and oh yeah, there is this guy...

Still. I'm nervous. If anyone has a spare prayer for us, I would appreciate it.

well, at least you sent the letter

I'm one of those people that believes true love is one of the few things that can't be broken in this world. Another is the cycle of life.

I hope you enjoy moving forward, and I will try to do the same, too.


Best wishes,

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I'd like to know your thoughts on this Sula. For me, I don't think I could become truly 1 with a persion of a different faith. I could love them, I could pursue a romantic relationship, but the tension would still be there. Of course, I am assuming religious differences are the biggest obstacle you face. Maybe you've completely come to terms with it by now, I don't know. If you have, I'd really like to know how you did it. I guess if a person places more importance on the relationship than their faith, it wouldn't be too hard. ...

Well, I don't have a great answer because I am still working on this relationship and don't know where it is ultimately going to go. We will be together for the next year at least, I am committed to that, because he is going to (hopefully) be starting college in the States and I want to make sure he makes a good transition and gets settled in. After that, I guess we will have to take stock of our relationship and where we are. Because it is too hard to know the answers to all the questions when we are still living here in Mali, when he has never been inside an American context, not to mention not yet met my parents.

Faith for me is important but it is not THE key to my life. Not at the moment anyways. I have had my struggles along the way, and I am still trying to figure out where I fit in the whole religion context. I was raised conservative Christian, feel like I still believe in God and in Christ, but apart from trying to live my life in an upstanding manner and be a good neighbor, I can't really claim affiliation with any religious tradition. Sul was raised Muslim, it isn't even something he has had to think about. But I sense that he questions things and has a real desire to do the right thing and follow God. He isn't hostile at all to Christianity. So far we have been able to give each other the space to be different. If that would work in a long-term marriage relationship, I'm not sure. Perhaps with the ground rules firmly agreed upon before hand. Deciding how to educate the children would of course be the biggest issue. I myself would want to see something like, be open with them about both religions, allow them to participate in both and then let them make their own decision when they are old enough. Still, I won't deny there are potential conflicts. Maybe that's why I'm still single. I have a lot of thinking to do and I'm not going to be rushed.

Regarding my parents reaction...I just received an email from them and it was about what I expected. They are suprised, concerned and need some time to think about it. But they emphasized that they appreciated my sharing with them and that they love me no matter what. I guess I can't ask for much more than that. But I know it is going to be a hard discussion when they finally call me. I can't wait to have the "unequally yoked" verse thrown at me.

 

[martha]

I can't believe it's been what two years already?

 

[VertigoGal]

hey sula

I just read through this thread for the first time. I'm the product of an interfaith marriage (Jewish father, Christian mother) so maybe my experiences would interest you, maybe not. Basically, my mom had to make the sacrifice and consented to her children being raised in the Jewish faith. She didn't think it was that big of a deal at first, but when I was younger I could tell she really resented Judaism, not to mention her in-laws. Anyway I remember at one point she was all upset because she was convinced her children were going to Hell. This is something you're going to have to seriously consider, if in fact both of you are literalists and believe that Christianity/Islam are the only way...I won't say that it wasn't hurtful as a kid to have your own mother think you were going to Hell.

In general, they did fight a lot about religion, but in their particular case it was the least of their problems. Luckily one of my parents went through drug rehab and came out with a much more spiritual/less religious view on "Higher Powers" and the other followed suit...that has eased tensions around that particular topic. However, I'm not saying that you guys should similarly shy away from your religions, only that unfortunately the more strictly you adhere to your respective religions, the harder it will be on your future kids. At least in my experience.

Also, you might want to be prepared for that fact that your kids are likely to end up not particularly caring for either of your religious beliefs (although that possibility obviously isn't limited to interfaith marriages!)...I chose not to have a Bat Mitzvah, and my brother has already stopped going to Sunday school at age 9. That caused some tension with my dad's family, although he didn't really mind. My parents are conviced that I'm agnostic because of my oh-so traumatic experiences with their interfaith marriage, although I personally will tell you it has nothing to do with that---I'm just not satisfied with the explanations religions offer.

Anyway, I realize that my post had nothing to do with how to tell your parents, which you've obviously already done, but I hope it was helpful in some way. And best of luck with your relationship...your boyfriend's a real cutie.

 

[2Hearts]

I'm one of those people that believes true love is one of the few things that can't be broken in this world. Another is the cycle of life.

I don't understand the significance of the 'cycle of life'. Could you explain what it means? If it means that seeing a newborn baby eases the pain of grief, then it just doesn't work for me.

 

[VertigoGal]

I really need to break my smiley habit.

 

[2Hearts]

hi sula,
Since this thread is all about you ( ), I hope you don't mind me throwing out this question to ya. Are you glad that your parents are missionaries, or would you have preferred them to work normal 9 to 5 jobs? And do you see any spiritual value to their work, or do you think they would be just as effective working through secular organizations?

On a U2 note, I saw earlier in this thread that HTDAAB, esp. SYCMIOYO, struck a chord with you. I have the same reaction to the entire album. There is so much wisdom in these songs, it's like Bono is giving us a blueprint for life. From the compassion in Miracle Drug, to the reflection in SYCMIOYO, to the thankfulness of ABOY, to the joy of life in Original and the realization of death in One Step Closer, it expresses a surety and clarity of vision. I really think that's what Bono intended, since he rediscovered the spirit of the Boy era.

The more you know, the less you feel
Some pray for others steal
Blessings are not just for the ones who kneel...luckily

 

[sulawesigirl4]

hi sula,
Since this thread is all about you ( ), I hope you don't mind me throwing out this question to ya. Are you glad that your parents are missionaries, or would you have preferred them to work normal 9 to 5 jobs? And do you see any spiritual value to their work, or do you think they would be just as effective working through secular organizations?

No, I don't mind answering questions. And the answer is a mixed bag. Yes, I am glad that my parents did what they did. I had a fascinating childhood and will never regret the fact that I was exposed to a multiple of languages, lands and cultures from a very early age (we moved overseas when I was 3!) I do think that there is value in the work that they did. If nothing else, their work involved a lot of pure humanitarian causes. Teaching people how to read and write, providing them with medicines that saved lives, helping develop a natural filter and water system to save the women countless hours of climbing up and down the hills to fetch water, to name a few. I suppose that they could have accomplished all of these things through any decent secular ONG. But that wasn't their choice, and I can respect that. Also, I feel that, unlike some mission groups, they did a lot to respect the culture and society of the village in which they lived. Rather than march in and tell them all to put on clothes and become like Americans, they lived in the village for over five years just learning the language and culture, making friends and becoming good neighbors before starting to share their religious message. So as much as I may feel somewhat ambiguous as to the urgency of "saving souls" (I tend to fall in the agnostic camp when it comes to hell) I feel that they did good work.

Does that answer the question(s)?

 

[For Honor]

Reviewing it

well, at least you sent the letter

I'm one of those people that believes true love is one of the few things that can't be broken in this world. Another is the cycle of life.

I hope you enjoy moving forward, and I will try to do the same, too.


Best wishes,

I don't understand the significance of the 'cycle of life'. Could you explain what it means? If it means that seeing a newborn baby eases the pain of grief, then it just doesn't work for me.

First, really, what are you refering to?
I don't understand what you mean by "Seeing a newborn baby eases the pain of grief"

Do you mean just literally? Like, seeing a newborn baby would make you feel better?


============


But what I meant by "cycle of life" is this....




I probably could have said 'the natural way of the world', or something simlar. What I am trying to get at is a complext thing, that I tried to sum up in a few words.

"The cycle of life", as I said it, was an attempt to convey this idea:

Everything that can be touched can and will change. Relationships tend to change over time, all things change. I won't get into it too much, but... I was using in my above sentances like this:






"I believe that in life, everlasting love is real, and exists. True love like that can be eternal (though it changes over time, and grows). However, along with that, I accept that there is a certain way of things in this world. if the relationship breaks, then don't worry about it. Things that aren't meant to last don't last. That's just "nature". "

(I concluded with "I hope you enjoy moving forward" because you have to face whatever life throws at you. (And that's what I'm doing now, myself). )


But essentially, my statement, that whole like about love and the cycle of life, was getting at this: Love can be a lasting thing within this world of constant change. Love can be a seemingly constant in a world of fluctiations. But the truth is that real love changes and adapts over time.

I seemingly (to myself), presented a paradox of contradictions - love (an everlasting, everconstant thing), and "the cycle of life" (growing, maturing, getting old, dieing, etc - but applied to all things, people and relationships, anything).

But I suppose my ultimate feeling about love and life is this:
True love is not something separate from how the world works.
True love can fit within the constant state of change that is this world.
True love does not stand apart from the world, but infact, coexists with it.




(I wonder if this is making any sense)
(and really, it stems from this long running thing in my head........

See....... I always believe that there was "love" and "everything else in the world". They were two separate entities almost, because when I was in love, I acted so "different", almost. I always saw them as two different ways of living, sort of. (And that is true, because when you really love someone, you care less about yourself...) Ah, I'm all over the place...

But..... it was like two differnt forms of existance..... or like
(from what little I do know), kind of like quantum mechanics vs gravity - how could both of those exist?



In the end, my conclusion is that they both do exist, (a sort of string theory, if you will). But.........



To go all the way back to my original, or previous post.....

The statment I was making was that......
*You can't avoid the reality that relationships don't always work out in this world. However, true love does exist, and you can have one everlasting relationship.*

I guess it is a contradiction, and in the end doesn't really say much. But as you can tell, I've put a lot of thought into the reasoing behind it all, even if it comes to a rather futile end point.
But I think the ..... 'going in a full circle' thing is neccesarry sometimes.


Anyhow....... does that make any sense, at all?
------------------
PS - I feel like I just wrote a paper.

 

[2Hearts]

Does that answer the question(s)?

Thanks for the reply, and yes it did. Missionaries are sometimes stereotyped as being 'crusaders' whose cause is dishonorable. But that viewpoint makes alot of false assumptions, and overlooks the reason why people go into the mission field to begin with (out of a of love). It sounds like your parents have done alot of great humanitarian work, and I'm sure they've seen what they perceive to be saved souls living happier lives. There's nothing wrong with that in my book. Jesus isn't American, so I don't get the "missionaries try to Americanize eveyone else" stuff.

 

[2Hearts]

Re: Reviewing it

First, really, what are you refering to?
I don't understand what you mean by "Seeing a newborn baby eases the pain of grief"

Don't worry about it. I was somewhere outside the realm of logic and reason.

But I suppose my ultimate feeling about love and life is this:
True love is not something separate from how the world works.
True love can fit within the constant state of change that is this world.
True love does not stand apart from the world, but infact, coexists with it.

Um, I guess I can understand that...

when I was in love, I acted so "different", almost. I always saw them as two different ways of living, sort of. (And that is true, because when you really love someone, you care less about yourself...)

Now this I totally understand. Being in love is a different existance, and alot of that has to do with thinking less of yourself (like you said). Being (seriously) sick is a different existance too.

kind of like quantum mechanics vs gravity - how could both of those exist?

I've forgotten why quantum mechanics and gravity are at odds with each other. I've heard about string theory though...

The statment I was making was that......
*You can't avoid the reality that relationships don't always work out in this world. However, true love does exist, and you can have one everlasting relationship.*

One everlasting relationship? What do you mean there?

 

[For Honor]

?? where did my response go?

I just wrote one,,,,,,

?

 

[For Honor]

Well, to make a long story short, but oh well........


I meant that I believe it's possible to have a love relationship that lasts you and one other person a lifetime