shrmn8rpoptart
War Child
Irvine511 said:
as a secular humanist who admires the basic jesus message, i really don't care what Paul has to say.
just curious what is the basic "Jesus message"?
Irvine511 said:
as a secular humanist who admires the basic jesus message, i really don't care what Paul has to say.
shrmn8rpoptart said:
just curious what is the basic "Jesus message"?
shrmn8rpoptart said:
just curious what is the basic "Jesus message"?
nbcrusader said:
The Bible and the Bible alone. End of story.
shrmn8rpoptart said:listen, i have an idea! why don't we just go ahead and get rid of laws all together? the basic point of a law is to prevent people from acting on their basic instinct/desires/impulses. the overall message of these posts has been that everyone should be able to act on these natural desires, because hey, if they weren't meant to be acted on, why would they occur? so at this point i have to say that we might as well set no limits on human actions, abolish all rule of law, and just go with the "if it feels good, do it" mentality.
deep said:
wake up and smell the burning flesh
of those believers would call heretics
The funny thing is you people on the left are sitting around bitching about your loss, calling conservatives and those of faith every name in the book. Look at these threads today according to you guys every one of those 58 million voters who went for Bush did so because they are stupid brain washed uneducated racist fools who don’t have the “vision” or “understanding” that you on the left do. You idiots can not even understand that it is EXACTLY that attitude that is driving people away from the democratic party. Now slowly but surely the minority vote is slipping away from you as well, while it is true that they still vote overwhelmingly democratic, Bush has received around 9% of their vote in 2000 and it looks like he may have received around 12 to 14% this time around. I have some bad news for you with out them YOU CANNOT WIN. Why the switch? My guess is that as minorities begin to advance economically and educate themselves they begin to move away from the urban areas and to more rural or sub-urban locations. Once there they begin to focus more on family values, religion, and keeping their children from the “progressive” morals of the urban areas they have fled.
They begin to see that the democrats have done little more then pay them lip service and use them for years and they resent it.
Face it guys you may think you are the brightest, and most progressive folks around, but at the end of the day God and those traditional family values you laugh at will bring more voters to the table then Springsteen and Moore.
A_Wanderer said:Please, the state exists to protect its citizens rights and protect them from harm.
Actions that do not harm anybody and do not vioate other peoples rights should not be restricted by government.
Drugs, sex, marriage whatever - it should not be the states duty to be the morality police on the matter - now argments about economic breaks within Gay Marriages, that is a matter for the states to argue.
A_Wanderer said:Extreme religious fanatacism is impaling homosexuals with red hot pokers - not banning gay marriage.
It is Stoning women to death for adultery instead of allowing them to do as they wish.
It is attempting to exterminate other people because of their religous beliefs.
If is having your government authority become divine thus justifiying any and all of its actions.
There are enough moderate republicans to keep the system working - it is not a monolithic group of theocrats.
A_Wanderer said:I agree with you but there is a big difference between not allowing gay marriage and opressing women, gays can live their lives openly (an exceptional thing in this world), I think that it is a false moral equivalence.
A_Wanderer said:You want a theocracy, take a trip back to 1999 and visit Afghanistan, go over to Iran or Saudi Arabia today - I think that you will spot a few "minor" differences in the way that the government works.
jer2911 said:
AMEN to that !! I voted for Bush, because he did not go against my dearly held values as a Christian and for that reason alone.
I find it ammusing that certain segments of society are all for free speech and personal freedom(logging protests in the redwoods, burning the flag, gay marriage, etc.).......except when it comes to a President speaking about his faith.
And for the person who asked WWJD about war, gay marriage, etc.........if you study the Bible, you will find your answers.
Irvine511 said:
jesus said absolutley NOTHING about homosexuality.
he did say, however, that we should love everybody.
the bible also condones slavery, says you shouldn't eat shellfish, have sex with a woman if she is menstruating ... basically, the bible says a lot of things. i'm baffled by people who put stock in literal interpretations of a text written 2,000 years ago by at least four different guys that has been translated however many times over the centuries into English.
if it works for you great. but don't use it to limit my freedoms.
A_Wanderer said:^Damn straight, practice your religion the way you want but dont force the rest of the people too, its unwarranted interferece - you need less government in your life.
cseggleton said:
a) Is there a problem voting for a candidate that believes alot of the same stuff you believe? Religion playing a role on the war on terrorism? Iraq? IMO these fanatics attacked us;....paybacks are hell!
b) Most of Bush's supporters are in the South. They were everywhere except the Northeast, West Coast, and parts of the UP. Hicks? They? You sure do generalize about people
c) Correct me if I am wrong. But Seperation of Church and State gets taken way out of context. I believe its intent was to say the Government can't tell you how to worship. Stop worrying about the extreme right. Our country has always balanced out....that is why it is so great. We are a melting pot!
d) I am not going to touch the God or Jesus one....gay marriage does not really concern me....death penalty I can see both sides of the argument....God or Jesus starting a war? Don't think they would but I bet they would go into a country and free opressed people.
Anyway next time you are in the South stop on by and we can drink some moonshine, pick a banjo, shovel some cow shit, slop the pigs, and waive a confederate flag around.........oh the sarcasm
deep said:
I don't want Shia law.
I want secular laws.
I have a lot of personal beliefs that you would not want imposed on you as laws.
BorderGirl said:what the world needs now is love sweet love, it's the only thing that there's just too little of............
and it starts at home.
speedracer said:
Tell me again why you don't think incestuous relationships or threesomes should be sanctioned by the state? Who decides that these relationships are "unnatural"? Dismissing this prospect as "absurd" is insufficient.
I bet there are such people who want to get married and feel as if they are being discriminated against. (Apologies for ending the previous sentence with a preposition.)
A_Wanderer said:Yes you are absolutely right, take for instance a most recent case in Iran where a young girl (16) and a young man were charged with having pre-marital sex, the girl was hung and the young man got a few lashings, fair and equal treatement my arse, couple that with honour killings, FGM and a whole variety of barbaric practices that are excused through interperatation of religon and you have a problem within many of these societies, multiculturalism is no excuse for human rights abuses ( http://www.activistchat.com/ and http://www.middleastwomen.org/ ).
And going to war is in itself would be warmongering and not a representation of theocracy, unless of course it was a war against the unbelievers.
A_Wanderer said:If one were to be objective here, opression of women would be practices like keeping them locked up inside the home and having institutionalised abuse sanctioned by religious authorities, it would be slicing off the clitoris in a ritualisic manner (now this isn't an Islamic problem, it is more of a ritual tribal issue), it would be murdering a wife or daughter in the name of family honour. The hijab is an issue of degree, it can become an opressive but rules of modesty adhered to by choice as a form of religious expression - I have absolutely no problem with that. Forcing all women to adhere to extreme religious law under penalty death, that is despotism and it cannot be excused in the name of multicuturalism and tollerance. I am intollerant of intollerance.
There is no such thing as a good death penalty, I cannot fathom how anybody can accept cruelty against innocent people by stoning them to death for something that by all logic should not be punished in the name of cultural tollerance. As a faith Islam should be open to new ideas and expression, to respect human life and liberty, by reinforcing such deeds it will only perpetuate and strengthen the abberation of religion that one finds in wahhabism or deoband schools of Islamic thought.
I do not see teenage girls brutally forced into wearing skimpy outfits for the pleasure of male opressors here, I see individuals expressing themselves the way they want if they want to without being forced to do anything. There is a significant difference between some of the more brutal mysoginist practices in many cultures and the freedom that women can enjoy in first world countries, one should not downplay that and pretend that freedom is an illusion.
I believe in individual liberty, but I am consistent - there must be no power either divine or mortal that seeks to rob individuals of their freedom and fundamental human rights and I would never give a free pass for Sharia to do so.
It is a product of society, and if one were to paint the Islamic world as a homogeneous society you would be reaching from the Balkans through to Java - that would be one very broad brush encompassing 1,2 billion people living in a whole lot of different circumstances with a whole lot of different history. Anyhow vastly different societies all the way through and vastly different conditioning which shapes those societies. One cannot blame a religious text for the shit that goes on in the world, but we can sure as hell point the finger at those that use religion to consolidate their own personal power and as a weapon against innocents.If one were to be objective here, opression of women would be practices like keeping them locked up inside the home and having institutionalised abuse sanctioned by religious authorities, it would be slicing off the clitoris in a ritualisic manner (now this isn't an Islamic problem, it is more of a ritual tribal issue)
A_Wanderer said:May I inquire what you believe the root cause of terrorism in the world to be?
A_Wanderer said:I think that Poverty, Inequality, Imperialism, Zionism, Economic Exploitation, Christian Expansionism; they are all very fancy and high arguments, full of loopholes and empty rhetoric on behalf of the perpetrators of the violence but they do not get to the core of the problem, a problem within the Islamic world - a problem about the direction that Islam is heading, forwards or backwards that is the question, there are those of a purely religious mindset that would like to bring the world back a dozen centuries and thankfully there are others who do not - a civil war within Islam for the hearts and minds of the majority. The "root causes" of terrorism ultimiately become wealthy Saudie Wahhabists using their own considerable funds to fight their ideological war, they find inspiration for this in radical Islam.
A_Wanderer said:There is a long history of support and counter-support during the Cold War for these groups and the history of Jihad goes back 14 centuries. I am of the opinion that this is hatred of a religious nature that may only be defeated by wresting control of Islam to the moderate and liberal voices and reducing the influence of those "holy men" that preach violence. Islam itself is not the problem, don't go getting the idea that we should eliminate a religion; but radical Islam, which is more of a violent political movement is a significant problem and it could bring the world to its knees if it is not adressed properly.
A_Wanderer said:The coming Invasion of Andalusia, the driving of the Jews into the sea, the victory against the Atheist Infidel (USSR) and the final apocalyptic battle between the faithful and the infidels/apostates.
This is the not the language of peace they are words of war, a war that has been fought since the crusades, I reiterate that we should be paying a lot more attention to our enemies and the enemies of all good and decent folk be they Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu or Atheist.