AvsGirl41 said:
I think you are making some really sweeping claims here.
America believed it had a right to independence, too. Is a revolution considered a peaceful way? What made the other Soviet republics deserving of independence? There were Russians living in Estonia too when it declared independence, and they were summarily kicked out of the country.
Russia is a democracy, but the recent elections in Chechnya were a joke. Why would you want to "strengthen" democracy in a country that makes a mockery of your presidential elections?
I would call depriving the capital city of Grozny electricity and running water denying Chechens their rights. There have been horrible atrocities committed against the civilian population.
I haven't read anything about them wanting to build a fundamentalist Muslim state. From what I gather, most Chechen nationalists want a democratic, secular state. They've made alot of noise about "the killing of Muslim brothers" but not about casting out infidels.
I am certainly not apologizing for Chechen terrorism. I find what they have done to the Russian civilians reprehensible. *Neither* side has sought enough of a diplomatic solution to satisfy me.
But to make such generalizations is very misleading.
I'm not making generalizations. The United States had a right to independence from England because they had no representation in London and had taxes and laws passed against them without having any say in the matter. Under such circumstances, as well as other things that followed, armed revolution is justified.
Chechnya was NOT a republic of the former Soviet Union. The Soviet government collapsed in 1991 and the only other governments that existed were the local governments of each of the 15 Republics. They all agreed mutually to have independence. Chechnya was a province of the Russian republic.
There are still Russians living in Estonia right now, and it was wrong for any Estonians to pressure any Russians out of the country. I do not think the government of Estonia approved of that action. They certainly had a right to get Russian troops off their territory though.
Prior to 1994, I do not see how Chechens were treated any differently than Russians or other ethnic groups living in the "Russian Republic". Because of that fact as well as the fact that Russia was becoming a democracy, I do not think the Chechens had a right to declare independence and to use violence to attack Russians.
Chechnya is a mess now, but it was not that way prior to the fall of 1994. Russian democracy is not perfect, but its far better than the Communist dictatorship that the country had prior to this. Democracy takes time to develop, and revolting at this point only weakens that process and only makes things worse for Chechen civilians. The standard of living and opportunities for the average Chechen would be far better today if they had not tried to go for independence in 1994.
Electricity and Running Water often gets cut off in many area's all over Russia. It is difficult to determine what attrocities have been committed by Russians considering the fact that the Chechens choose to fight often in the cities, making unintended civilian losses enevitable. The deteriation of the Russian military since the end of the Soviet Union has contributed to these difficulties as well. A less experienced and less well trained force, is going to make more mistakes.
The Chechens declared independence in 1994 when none of these problems existed. It was prior to the war.
There was a brief pause in the war from 1996 to 1999. In the fall of 1999, Chechens began attacking neighboring Russian communities outside of Chechnya. That prompted the Russians to go back in. This and other things have convinced me that the Chechen movement is really and fundamentalist Islamic movement aimed at spreading control through the surrounding area as well as achieving full independence. Members of Al Quada and other terrorist groups have fought in Chechnya.
The fact is, Chechnya belongs to the Russian Federation in the same way that New Jersey belongs to the United States. The difficulties that Chechens in Chechnya experience come from the war which was started by the Chechens. Because Russia is a democracy and I do not see people in Chechnya being denied certain rights others in the Russian Federation had prior to them declaring independence, I do not think they have grounds to form an independent state.