Pope Benedict: gays have no social or moral value

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MsGiggles said:
Funny how the catholic church frowns on homosexuality but half of thier priests molest little boys......:scratch:



please, please, PLEASE do not equate homosexuality with pedophilia.

they have nothing to do with one another.

homosexuality is to pedophilia as heterosexuality is to rape.
 
Irvine511 said:




please, please, PLEASE do not equate homosexuality with pedophilia.

they have nothing to do with one another.

homosexuality is to pedophilia as heterosexuality is to rape.

How many priests are gay??
 
MsGiggles said:


How many priests are gay??

What's he's saying is that one who molests children are pedophiles, i.e. people who are sexually attracted to children. A homosexual is attracted to adults of the same sex.
 
joyfulgirl said:


What's he's saying is that one who molests children are pedophiles, i.e. people who are sexually attracted to children. A homosexual is attracted to adults of the same sex.

I AM AWARE OF THIS - however, it seems priests will do anything that moves -whether child or adult - and they seem to be male
 
Re: more incomplete and immature specimens of human sexuality

wilde.jpg



This man is a hero of mine, is he devoid of value?

I can't even make a personally detached/ unbiased statement about this.

I consider myself Catholic but no power on this earth or otherwise have the right to take such ignorant stances.

Of course this is nothing new but I'm exceptionally annoyed.
 
MsGiggles said:


I AM AWARE OF THIS - however, it seems priests will do anything that moves -whether child or adult - and they seem to be male

I don't think that's true. Priests that are pedophiles are attracted to children period and probably couldn't get aroused by an adult. Girls do get molested too.

Two of my cousins are a product of an affair my godmother had with a priest so see there are definitely some heterosexual priests out there. She was an adult by the way.

I'd like to add I think the majority of priests are good people. I do disagree with the church itself on MOST issues these days however.
 
Re: Re: more incomplete and immature specimens of human sexuality

ZeroDude said:
wilde.jpg



This man is a hero of mine, is he devoid of value?

I can't even make a personally detached/ unbiased statement about this.

I consider myself Catholic but no power on this earth or otherwise have the right to take such ignorant stances.

Of course this is nothing new but I'm exceptionally annoyed.

Wilde was an evolved soul, IMO, something the Vatican knows nothing about, frankly.
 
this is breathtaking.

looks like the Vatican's version of Catholicism has much in common with radical Islam and radical Protestan politicized fundamentalist Christianity.

observe the following list of medieval prejudices:

[q]
Vatican newspaper says homosexual men not suitable for priesthood

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Even if they have never had a gay sexual experience and are fully committed to celibacy, homosexual men are not suitable candidates for the priesthood, said a long article in the Vatican newspaper.

Titled "Reflections on the Document," the article was published Nov. 29 with the text of the Congregation for Catholic Education's new instruction on accepting homosexuals as candidates for the priesth

[...]

Msgr. Anatrella said the Vatican felt it "necessary to recall once again that homosexuality always has been one of the difficulties that impedes access to holy orders."

In cultures where homosexuality increasingly is seen as a "normal quality" rather than as "a problem in the psychic organization" of a person's sexuality, he said, the church's teaching needed to be reaffirmed.

Homosexuals have a place in the church just like any other baptized person, Msgr. Anatrella said. They are to be welcomed, supported and helped "to live in fidelity to their baptism and to assume all the moral consequences of the Christian life, but they cannot be called to holy orders."

"Unfortunately, for many years in some countries a permissive attitude has allowed people to think that candidates (for the priesthood) who have this tendency could be ordained as long as they assumed perfect continence," or remained celibate, he said.

Problems and scandals have proven that a permissive attitude "lacked lucidity and wisdom," the monsignor said.

While "sexual transgressions" are a particular concern, he said, there are "collateral effects inherent" in accepting gay men into the seminary and ordaining them to the priesthood because of "typical behaviors and expressions on the part of these personalities."

He said they tend to have few friends, to close themselves off from others in "a clan of persons of the same type," to resent the claims on their time made by parishioners, to encourage other gay men to enter the priesthood and to deal with authority predominantly as a matter of "seduction and rejection."

[...]

Nevertheless, Msgr. Anatrella wrote, "One must free oneself from the idea that leads one to believe that, insofar as a homosexual person respects his commitment to continence lived in chastity, there will not be problems and he can therefore be ordained a priest."

A "commitment in holy orders presupposes that the candidate has attained a sufficient affective and sexual maturity coherent with his masculine sexual identity," the article said.

"He must, in principle, be suitable for marriage and able to exercise fatherhood over his children. And it is under those mature conditions that he renounces exercising them in order to give himself to God in the priesthood," the monsignor wrote.

Msgr. Anatrella repeatedly affirmed the need for a priest to be heterosexual in order to see himself and for others to see him as the "bridegroom of the church" and as a "spiritual father" to those to whom he is ministering.

"A homosexual person would have difficulty incarnating this symbolic reality of the spousal bond and spiritual paternity," he said.

Because the priest acts in the "person of Christ," Msgr. Anatrella said, the church calls only "men mature in their masculine identity" to the diaconate and priesthood.

[...]

Msgr. Anatrella provided a long list of warning signs that should alert seminary rectors and staff members to the possibility that a seminarian is homosexual.

Among worrying signs, he listed: students who had trouble relating to their fathers; are uncomfortable with their own identity; tend to isolate themselves; have difficulty in discussing sexual questions; view pornography on the Internet; demonstrate a deep sense of guilt; or often see themselves as victims.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0506787.htm

[/q]
 
Irvine511 said:
some people who have no social or moral value in the eyes of the Vatican:

It might be splitting hairs here, but it's worth pointing out that technically the writing focuses on homosexuality, not homosexuals -- on activity, not individuals.

I realize the one is probably as the other here. There is however a train of thought which says that sexual activity is not and should not be identified as the ultimate defining characteristic of one's identity.

Not being Catholic, I'm not in a position to defend the writing either way, however...
 
nathan1977 said:


It might be splitting hairs here, but it's worth pointing out that technically the writing focuses on homosexuality, not homosexuals -- on activity, not individuals.

I realize the one is probably as the other here. There is however a train of thought which says that sexual activity is not and should not be identified as the ultimate defining characteristic of one's identity.

Not being Catholic, I'm not in a position to defend the writing either way, however...



quite simply, homosexual/ality is something you are not something you do. the distinction also reduces individuals down to a specific sexual act, which is not interchangeable with the word homosexuality.

i understand the distinction you highlight, but that distinction (also made by the Vatican) is predicated upon a fundamental misunderstanding that posits homosexuality as not heteroseuxality, just with the same gender, but as something different and therefore inferior.

it is really rather painful to see an orientation, a whole way of relating to human beings, reduced to a sex act.

to be perfectly blunt, homosexuality is not ass fucking.

is heterosexuality only vaginal intercourse?
 
Irvine511 said:


it is really rather painful to see an orientation, a whole way of relating to human beings, reduced to a sex act.

How exactly do homosexuals relate differently to human beings? That very blanket statement needs to be unpacked a little more.

I mean, isn't what we're talking about here a sense of common humanity that runs deeper than our sexuality, that ties us together, which is what makes it uncomfortable for the Church (seemingly) to write off a whole group of people who otherwise might be considered heroes?
 
nathan1977 said:


How exactly do homosexuals relate differently to human beings? That very blanket statement needs to be unpacked a little more.

I mean, isn't what we're talking about here a sense of common humanity that runs deeper than our sexuality, that ties us together, which is what makes it uncomfortable for the Church (seemingly) to write off a whole group of people who otherwise might be considered heroes?



no, what i'm saying is that sexuality and sexual orientation is a way of relating to human beings, it is more than the sex act. do you relate to women with whom you are sexually attracted to in a different manner than you do your mother? your sister? your aunt? your married co-workers? sexuality is a mysterious, complex thing, and it only seems to get reduced to fucking when it involves two men of the same gender (lesbians get ignored). i am not saying that homosexuals relate differently to people, or at least any more differently than any other minority group might relate to people as a result of their (oft-persecuted) social status.

i agree with your 2nd sentence.

it is the church that can't get beyond the desire for a particular kind of sex act that is incidental to an orientation.

if gay priests are celibate, just what is the issue?

this is where the Vatican reveals it's deep ignorance and convenient bigotry.
 
is heterosexuality only vaginal intercourse?
I think that this question was answered effectively enough by Clinton.

The real problem will come when the Church allows priests to marry because then the entire situation issue becomes more stark. Whats the difference between a homosexual and heterosexual if they both abstain?
 
I have nothing worhty to contribute yet, though it is another interesting FYM read. Personally, this is just one more reason why I feel awkward when I do happen to obeserve mass with my stepmom; I cannot fully believe in the Catholic religion.
 
Let's be honest: the Pope is a cross-dresser. Have you seen what the Pope wears? How he can accuse anyone of being gay is beyond me...unless...it takes one to know one
note: i do not think all gay people cross-dress
 
Irvine511 said:
if gay priests are celibate, just what is the issue?

well quite simply the catholic church has chosen to remain ignorant on this issue... they feel that if a priest is attracted to men that he would be more likely to act on an alter boy or something like that... despite the fact that it is a known fact that pedophillia does not = homesexuality.

this is not some hidden secret... the church choses to ignore it though.

i suggest pope benedict refer to the case of big gay al vs. mr. slippyfist... judged by the honorable matt stone and trey parker, esquire, of course.
 
blueyedpoet said:
Let's be honest: the Pope is a cross-dresser. Have you seen what the Pope wears? How he can accuse anyone of being gay is beyond me...unless...it takes one to know one
note: i do not think all gay people cross-dress



actually, most cross-dressers are straight.

drag queens, however, are gay.

;)
 
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