MERGED--> all discussion of Sen. Allen incident

[nbcrusader]

I think we can discuss why is this tolerated in 2006? For those of you who don't consider this racism, then why not? Does this effect your vote(if you were voting for him)?

There are plenty of questions.

Now, were really down to "Allen is a racist, prove me wrong."

And we are comparing what Allen said about his comment against your knoweldge of what he really meant.

As I indicated earlier, I've never heard this term before. It is new to others as well. Is it some East Coast colloquialism? Does Allen use this term for all dark skinned people?

Or was this a nickname for a political opponent's operative that followed Allen to all his appearances?

 

[nbcrusader]

So take your high road, and think you're above the fray when you refuse to condemn.

If you don't want to participate in discussion, fine. If you will only permit comments that begin with condemnation, apply for a position as moderator.

 

[BVS]

easy there BVS

I can see where you coming from. You can make as many racial slurs as long as your on stage in front of hundreds of people.

Not my point.

But the reason I'm frustrated is that you say you understand, but you obviously don't.

 

[ntalwar]

As I indicated earlier, I've never heard this term before. It is new to others as well. Is it some East Coast colloquialism? Does Allen use this term for all dark skinned people?

Or was this a nickname for a political opponent's operative that followed Allen to all his appearances?

The operative had actually met Allen before, and the nickname bears no resemblance to his real name. Allen has not been quoted as using this term before in public. He also said "Welcome to America ". And Allen even apologized (sort of).
It is not an East Coast term whatsoever.

95% of the posts on washingtonpost.com (lots of local readers) are against Allen on this as well.

 

[deep]

Now, were really down to "Allen is a racist, prove me wrong."

?

Sidarth, who said he had introduced himself to the senator earlier in the week, said he felt Allen

So why call him "macaca"?

please speculate? the "mohawk" hair cut explanation (which sidarth does not have) does not stand any reasonableness test.

Allen had already identified him as the "guy in the yellow shirt filming"

how many guys with yellow shirts and cameras do you think there were?

if he said the "guy in the yellow shirt, filming with the mohawk haircut", this would not even be an issue.

 

[BVS]

Now, were really down to "Allen is a racist, prove me wrong."

I gave you a list of questions that could be discussed, one was for those of you who don't believe this to be racist, why not? Many have said why they do.

How you got this, I don't know.

And we are comparing what Allen said about his comment against your knoweldge of what he really meant.

Well he's actually changed his story 2 or 3 times, so I'm not sure if he even knows how to cover himself.

As I indicated earlier, I've never heard this term before. It is new to others as well. Is it some East Coast colloquialism? Does Allen use this term for all dark skinned people?

Or was this a nickname for a political opponent's operative that followed Allen to all his appearances?

So it would be OK if this was a term he used for all dark skinned people?

Why if he was so innocent did he use it in the context of "welcome to America"?

 

[deep]

Or was this a nickname for a political opponent's operative that followed Allen to all his appearances?

If this is the case he should have chosen something like "Oliver Stone". (because he is filming) or Webb Jr. something that is not easily construed as relating to race / skin color.
This is an easy test for someone that wants to be trusted as a Senator.

 

[anitram]

This nickname thing is ridiculous, but for those who are pushing this POV, then why did he immediately after calling him a "macaca" welcome him to America?

 

[nbcrusader]

The operative had actually met Allen before, and the nickname bears no resemblance to his real name. Allen has not been quoted as using this term before in public. He also said "Welcome to America ". And Allen even apologized (sort of).
It is not an East Coast term whatsoever.

If Allen and Sidarth have met before, why the "Welcome to America"?

The report of the context of the statement is as follows:

After saying that Webb was raising money in California with a "bunch of Hollywood movie moguls," Allen said, "Let's give a welcome to macaca, here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia." Allen then began talking about the "war on terror."

Sounds more like a political statement pitting Hollywood liberals against "real Americans" in Virginia.

And it seems he was singled out as a political operative, not just the "dark skinned guy in the crowd".

It seems like the "Welcome to America" is the phrase that is pushing the racial tone of the comment.

 

[ntalwar]

He said "macaca" more than once. Why did he semi-apologize then?

Even an Indian press headline is "US senator apologises for racial remark against NRI"

NRI="Non-resident Indian"

http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/aug/15nri.htm

 

[deep]

If Allen and Sidarth have met before, why the "Welcome to America"?

The report of the context of the statement is as follows:



Sounds more like a political statement pitting Hollywood liberals against "real Americans" in Virginia.

And it seems he was singled out as a political operative, not just the "dark skinned guy in the crowd".

It seems like the "Welcome to America" is the phrase that is pushing the racial tone of the comment.

Webb was raising money in California with a "bunch of Hollywood movie moguls,"


"bunch of Hollywood movie moguls," did he mean liberals

we know what he meant

Spielberg, Katzenberg, Geffen and Streisand

the good ol' boys got the message

he was not talking about Mel Gibson

 

[BVS]

Sounds more like a political statement pitting Hollywood liberals against "real Americans" in Virginia.

And it seems he was singled out as a political operative, not just the "dark skinned guy in the crowd".

It seems like the "Welcome to America" is the phrase that is pushing the racial tone of the comment.

Did you watch the video?

 

[nbcrusader]

In politics, the "apology" is often a calculated, mechanical response to a political situation.

They had Allen by the short hairs as the target was an operative for his opponent, Webb.

If this is how Allen refers to NRIs, it is evidence of racism. In the instant situation, it is all about damage control. You can NEVER ignore a charge of racism in politics.

 

[nbcrusader]

Did you watch the video?

No video access at work. Just dealing with the limited transcripts.

 

[Irvine511]

Is there a consistent concern about offending people with speech?


Jump between threads and I'd say the answer is "no".

are you comparing "oh my god" and/or "jesus h. christ" with "kike" "n*gger" "faggot" and/or "bitch"?

if so, that's fine, but you've got a lot of cultural work to do in order to make your case.

 

[BVS]

No video access at work. Just dealing with the limited transcripts.

Well he points directly to him and says, "So welcome, let's give a welcome to macaca here, welcome to America".

 

[nbcrusader]

Really?

Isn't the offense defined by the hearer?

Or do we have an objective standard?

 

[nbcrusader]

I though he was speaking about Webb's actions and pointing to Sidarth as one of his operatives.

I think the discussion is interesting in how the elements are analyzed, both independently, as as support for a conclusion.

 

[BVS]

I though he was speaking about Webb's actions and pointing to Sidarth as one of his operatives.

I could possibly agree with you if it hadn't been for Allen addressing him directly with the word in question, ONCE AGAIN.

"So welcome, let's give a welcome to macaca here, welcome to America".

I don't see this as being used in the Allen against hollywood context...

 

[U2democrat]

FYI my dad knew what macaca meant and was very taken aback when I told him about it.


Then again my dad seems to have knowledge of the most random things


I don't understand the disconnect people are having between Allen using a racial slur and him being a racist

 

[yolland]

What did your dad think it meant? I'm curious because I've seen "macaque" used on white supremacist websites as a crude synonym for "African-American," but "macaca" I was familiar with only from Southern France (ironically, I just learned that word when I was teaching there earlier this summer). Did he think of it as a general derogatory term for nonwhite people, or as something more specific?

 

[U2democrat]

I think he knew it as a derogatory term for non white people.

 

[Screwtape2]

Living the last thirty years in the south, you'd think he would have heard just about every negative term for someone of color.
Yolland said she had heard the term in Southern France since it is a French slur, Allen speaks French.
It's kind of sad that he is like this because his sister seems like a really nice person and his father was such a great man.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia article on him which includes this incident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Felix_Allen#Macaca_Controversy

 

[INDY500]

I don't understand the disconnect people are having between Allen using a racial slur and him being a racist

Maybe it's the double standard.

"In Delaware, the largest growth of population is Indian Americans, moving from India. You cannot go to a 7/11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking."
--Joe Biden 2006
Hillary Clinton introduced a quote from Gandhi by saying, "He ran a gas station down in St. Louis."
--Hillary Clinton 2004

No...I take that back. There's no comparison, neither senator Clinton or Biden wore a confederate flag label in their yearbook picture.
So it must be that the tactic of smearing Republicans as 'racists" or "nazis" in lieu of providing the country with a viable political alternative is wearing a bit thin.

 

[martha]

He uses the word three times in the video.

 

[BVS]

Maybe it's the double standard.

No...I take that back. There's no comparison, neither senator Clinton or Biden wore a confederate flag label in their yearbook picture.
So it must be that the tactic of smearing Republicans as 'racists" or "nazis" in lieu of providing the country with a viable political alternative is wearing a bit thin.

The Clinton quote was already discussed in here.

You've brought these quotes up twice, what's your point?

 

[INDY500]

The Clinton quote was already discussed in here.

You've brought these quotes up twice, what's your point?

That this is manufactured, selective and politically motivated outrage.

 

[BVS]

That this is manufactured, selective and politically motivated outrage.

Manufactured...

Or maybe you just can't discuss the transcript and video at hand.

 

[yolland]

Indy what is your take on the quotes from Clinton and Biden?

 

[INDY500]

Manufactured...

Yes, the outrage is manufactured.
Selective.
And politically motivated.

George Allen said a stupid thing. So did Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton. But none of them are racists.
Prove me wrong.