Is this tour frustrating you?

[monsieur fly]

Velvet dress is slow but at least it has a groove to it that works. Van Diemen's land was done to let Edge sing, and was dropped after Lovetown. RTSS is a much stronger song than WAS, and has a buildup that works live (and by *chorus* I mean something that the full arena/stadium can sing). I would like to hear WAS in the *acoustic song* spot, I just don't think it would work. And I can't see Cedars anywhere else but closing the show, which currently MOS is doing a good job with anyway.

Consider the band pretty much had to add the new Zooropa songs to the setlist - yet arguably only Stay really worked. (well, and Dirty day, due to the solo) Numb and Lemon are stronger in the studio than live.

(1) The jury is very much out on MOS as a closer. Ironically Cedars would work well straight after BTBS but that that isn't a price I'm prepared to pay haha
(2) Two Zooropa songs- Babyface and the title track were not given enough of chance for you to judge whether they worked or not (you implicitely refer to them)
(3) Some would say Lemon works better live, I liked the countermelody "midnight" Bono sang for instance.
(4) I agree with your views about WAS Velvet Dress and RTSS

 

[U2387]

Well, but he believes he owns the truth, and thinks he can use arrogance to reply to what he doesn't like to read.
What's too bad here is there's a group of followers that don't allow that other fans might be dissatisfied with the band's work and that might think that the band lost artistic vision. I make lots and lots of criticism to this tour, but I justify and put arguments in what I say. Instead, these followers, don't accept anything we might say and try to take credibility to those who think U2 are not that perfect and that don't forgive every little thing (like they do, because they're saints).

This has happened to me here tones of times before, but it seems irrelevant. What I think is there's many people here with sectary behavious (this doesn't suprise me, don't worry). Fortunately, I don't jump on that boat.

I understand, he believes his own truth and that is just too bad for him.(witness him not coming back after taking the discussion out of context and using his own opinions to supposedly win an argument) He presents it as I have the facts, you have your opinion when really, we both have our opinions.

I agree with what you said regarding people who will just take an uncritical, non questioning attitude to everything U2 does.

We probably should not have engaged him, as this thread was going quite well. However, the people like you, zoo tv tourist, niceman, etc all had substantive posts in this thread that were not personal until gvox came in.

I only engaged him in the 1st place because I was expecting to read more good discussion from where I left off and I read personal attacks from gvox to many other posters. I just felt his tone was dismissive of anyone with constructive criticism to offer, so I brought it up.

I don't even think U2 has lost it in regards to creativity, I just think there are things they can do better. Overall I am satisfied.

 

[mikal]

Well, but he believes he owns the truth, and thinks he can use arrogance to reply to what he doesn't like to read.
What's too bad here is there's a group of followers that don't allow that other fans might be dissatisfied with the band's work and that might think that the band lost artistic vision. I make lots and lots of criticism to this tour, but I justify and put arguments in what I say. Instead, these followers, don't accept anything we might say and try to take credibility to those who think U2 are not that perfect and that don't forgive every little thing (like they do, because they're saints).

This has happened to me here tones of times before, but it seems irrelevant. What I think is there's many people here with sectary behavious (this doesn't suprise me, don't worry). Fortunately, I don't jump on that boat.

maybe it's just that some people are so sick of seeing negative threads and posts in every direction. take this sub-forum for example. there are currently 6 negative threads and even the positive ones have the usual suspects hijacking it with negative posts. everyone has a right to have an opinion, but as someone who is generally positive towards most of the things U2 does, it get to be a bit much. if you were to ask me to find 5 U2 related threads here that does not contain bitching or complaining, i don't know that i could find that many.

 

[Niceman]

I understand, he believes his own truth and that is just too bad for him.(witness him not coming back after taking the discussion out of context and using his own opinions to supposedly win an argument) He presents it as I have the facts, you have your opinion when really, we both have our opinions.

I agree with what you said regarding people who will just take an uncritical, non questioning attitude to everything U2 does.

We probably should not have engaged him, as this thread was going quite well. However, the people like you, zoo tv tourist, niceman, etc all had substantive posts in this thread that were not personal until gvox came in.

I only engaged him in the 1st place because I was expecting to read more good discussion from where I left off and I read personal attacks from gvox to many other posters. I just felt his tone was dismissive of anyone with constructive criticism to offer, so I brought it up.

I don't even think U2 has lost it in regards to creativity, I just think there are things they can do better. Overall I am satisfied.

I agree. It's funny. On one thread I get accused of being a U2 "apologist" on another I come off as too critical. I think the performances this tour have been utterly incredible. I wish the setlist were better. I think NLOTH is the 3rd best album they've ever put together - AND I like all 11 songs, but bring up ATYCLB and you'll hear me savage the band..... I love U2 and I'll also tell you what they've done that I don't like.

There is room for complicated people like us to have intelligent respectful conversations without trolls coming in and making it all personal!

 

[U2387]

maybe it's just that some people are so sick of seeing negative threads and posts in every direction. take this sub-forum for example. there are currently 6 negative threads and even the positive ones have the usual suspects hijacking it with negative posts. everyone has a right to have an opinion, but as someone who is generally positive towards most of the things U2 does, it get to be a bit much. if you were to ask me to find 5 U2 related threads here that does not contain bitching or complaining, i don't know that i could find that many.

Constructive criticism is the majority, bitching and bashing U2 is the minority. I feel bitching and bashing is uncalled for on a U2 fan site, while constructive criticism is one of the things the site should be based on.

I generally have a very positive attitude toward U2 as well, and like I have said before, no one who does not would bother to post here.

What gvox is doing is over the top and not at all in the spirit of discussion, more denial and a stubborn, arrogant view that his opinion is fact.

I don't like negativity either, and I am with the people who call frustrated too strong a word for what is ultimately entertainment. I just clicked into this dubiously titled thread and found some good discussion.

 

[mikal]

Constructive criticism is the majority, bitching and bashing U2 is the minority. I feel bitching and bashing is uncalled for on a U2 fan site, while constructive criticism is one of the things the site should be based on.

I generally have a very positive attitude toward U2 as well, and like I have said before, no one who does not would bother to post here.

What gvox is doing is over the top and not at all in the spirit of discussion, more denial and a stubborn, arrogant view that his opinion is fact.

I don't like negativity either, and I am with the people who call frustrated too strong a word for what is ultimately entertainment. I just clicked into this dubiously titled thread and found some good discussion.

i think you hit the nail on the head. both sides are guilty too often of presenting their opinions as facts, or trying to present proof as to why they're right.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

I'm happy I got up this morning, logged in here and saw this thread is still open, ah happy Sundays

 

[Aygo]

maybe it's just that some people are so sick of seeing negative threads and posts in every direction. take this sub-forum for example. there are currently 6 negative threads and even the positive ones have the usual suspects hijacking it with negative posts. everyone has a right to have an opinion, but as someone who is generally positive towards most of the things U2 does, it get to be a bit much. if you were to ask me to find 5 U2 related threads here that does not contain bitching or complaining, i don't know that i could find that many.

Maybe having 6 negative threads is a sign of something... Have you already asked yourself that? I have.
Plus, people have to learn to deal with negative criticism. People are entitled to do it and fans as well. I'm a fan, but I have all the right in the world to question what U2 does. U2 as an act offers certain expectations. If I feel that they don't fufill with those expectations and that they don't fulfill with their job, I have all the right to respond negatively. I don't care if fans like it or not.

Constructive criticism is necessary (I have already made it as well), but negative is necessary as well. And, at this time of U2's career, I feel that they're needing much more negative criticism than constructive.

Just a side note to the topic, related with this post: why do the users feel that "frustrating" such a strong word? Do they think that fans don't have the right to feel frustrated for U2... not fulfilling with the expectations they "provoke" on the audiences as a cultural act and producer?

 

[Sicy]

I asked gvox to leave this thread so it is not fair for people to continue to address him here.

On a general note, this thread has officially run its course and I don't feel that it can get back on track in a respectable manner. Should anyone wish to want to continue to voice their complaints about the setlist/tour feel free to do a search in this forum. There are plenty of threads to choose from.