Ellipse lottery no luck needed?

[Dusty Bottoms]

If Gabe's story is correct then the system is even more bullshit. If they decide to let people bring in 3, 4 or 5 per winning ticket than they will run out of wristbands before the people who show up later and have "precoded" winning tickets.

If tickets are precoded, and someone has a winning ticket but shows up after they have taken down the scanners, then they get royally fucked.

But having said that, I don't really think the tickets are precoded either.

 

[Superman]

I also find it hard to believe that it has anything to do with ticket codes, despite what Gabe was told (sorry, Gabe). Occam's Razor, people. Why would they bother with a system that involves inputting thousands upon thousands of codes when a program of intermittant beeps at random intervals would work just as well, with considerably less work?

superman would like to think that ticketmaster can sort out the serial codes of GA vs. non GA tickets by a simple click of a button.

superman sure knows that he can sort all sorts of information at the daily planet simply using microsoft excel. superman also thinks that organizations as huge and wealthy as ticketmaster, clear channel, principal management/u2 would have a few computer tech guys who may no a thing or two about uploading databases with relative ease... consideirng how most high school freshmen could do it.

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

does superman realize that if this is indeed the system they are using, that they are fucking over the people with GA tickets that show up at showtime?

 

[Superman]

It is NOT predetermined on the ticket. I got scanned in with a reserved ticket at one show.

It IS a random computer generated selection, but I also believe there is an override process of some sort.

superman has a hard time believing this, considering how you have to show your ticket to an usher at the door and then again to the people at the scanning table.

one would think they could tell the difference between numbers and letters. superman certainly can.

 

[Superman]

does superman realize that if this is indeed the system they are using, that they are fucking over the people with GA tickets that show up at showtime?

superman doesn't give a crap what the system is. superman was simply staing that uploading ticket serial codes is a very easy task, if that is, in fact, the system.

superman doesn't need to get scanned into the ellipse. remember... superman can fly.

 

[redkat]

does superman realize that if this is indeed the system they are using, that they are fucking over the people with GA tickets that show up at showtime?

Because people the machines are down by showtime?

Does anyone that's arrived at showtime get into the ellipse? maybe they take people randomly at that point

 

[Superman]

Because people the machines are down by showtime?

Does anyone that's arrived at showtime get into the ellipse? maybe they take people randomly at that point

superman thinks that if you really wanted to get into the ellipse you'd show up by the time the doors opened instead of chilling in the parking lot and having a few more cocktails.

superman doesn't care so he doesn't go into the arena until after the opening act. superman does love him some nice cocktails.

and of course... you know... the whole flying thing... superman just glides right into a fine and dandy spot inside the ellipse.

superman enjoyed the metropolis shows

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

Because people the machines are down by showtime?

Does anyone that's arrived at showtime get into the ellipse? maybe they take people randomly at that point

Let's say Joe is only going to 1 U2 show, and doesn't really know how the whole lottery/ellipse thing works. So Joe decides to go to U2.com and read up on it. Joe finds this:

c. Selection will be on a random basis using a computer ticket scanner that verifies the tickets and by a random numerical process, selects tickets for the Ellipse
d. Each ticket selected for the Elipse will enable both the ticket holder and their companion accompanying them into the Elipse.
e. Each selected ticket and that of their companion will be stamped upon selection and they will be directed to the Elipse wrist banding station.
f. Random selection will continue for the full capacity of the floor. (From the first person arriving to the last person arriving, everyone will have an equal opportunity to enter the Ellipse)

So Joe thinks cool, my ticket says 7:30 showtime. I will have some dinner with my wife, show up at 7:30 and have a chance to get inside the ellipse.

Let's say Joe did end up having a ticket that was "precoded" to be a wining lottery ticket, so he and his wife should have been inside the ellipse. But when he gets there, to his surprise, they are not scanning anymore because they had run out of wristbands.

They had decided to allow some people to bring in more than 1 guest, thus causing them to run out of wristbands early. They effectively gave away Joe's wristband to someone who shouldn't have gotten it.

Thus, Joe did everything right, but got fucked out his shot to the ellipse.

So tell me, how is this a good system?

 

[redkat]

umm no but either way the system isn't good right?

by the way dusty you say fuck a lot


superman will you be gliding into the st.louis ellipse

 

[VintagePunk]

superman would like to think that ticketmaster can sort out the serial codes of GA vs. non GA tickets by a simple click of a button.

superman sure knows that he can sort all sorts of information at the daily planet simply using microsoft excel. superman also thinks that organizations as huge and wealthy as ticketmaster, clear channel, principal management/u2 would have a few computer tech guys who may no a thing or two about uploading databases with relative ease... consideirng how most high school freshmen could do it.

That would involve Clear Channel and Ticketmaster cooperating and having their proverbial shit together, and I don't believe either of those organizations are capable of that. Like I said, the alternative is so much easier.

 

[Chizip]

umm no but either way the system isn't good right?

by the way dusty you say fuck a lot


superman will you be gliding into the st.louis ellipse

Well Gabe is a big supporter of the lottery. So if the system is truly how he says it is, I don't see how he could support a system that screws people over like that.

But, I don't think the system is as he says it is. I think they just set it to randomly beep every now and then.

Someone has said they have seen a ticket get scanned, it didn't beep, but then it got scanned again and it did beep. So that would go against his theory.

 

[VintagePunk]

Let's say Joe is only going to 1 U2 show, and doesn't really know how the whole lottery/ellipse thing works. So Joe decides to go to U2.com and read up on it. Joe finds this:



So Joe thinks cool, my ticket says 7:30 showtime. I will have some dinner with my wife, show up at 7:30 and have a chance to get inside the ellipse.

Let's say Joe did end up having a ticket that was "precoded" to be a wining lottery ticket, so he and his wife should have been inside the ellipse. But when he gets there, to his surprise, they are not scanning anymore because they had run out of wristbands.

They had decided to allow some people to bring in more than 1 guest, thus causing them to run out of wristbands early. They effectively gave away Joe's wristband to someone who shouldn't have gotten it.

Thus, Joe did everything right, but got fucked out his shot to the ellipse.

So tell me, how is this a good system?

It's not. The key is this point:

f. Random selection will continue for the full capacity of the floor. (From the first person arriving to the last person arriving, everyone will have an equal opportunity to enter the Ellipse)

By allowing groups of 3 or more entrance to the ellipse on the same ticket, logically, there are going to be fewer tickets getting beeped before the ellipse fills up.

IF (which I don't believe) the tickets are predestined for ellipse entry, then people arriving later with these special tickets are not gaining entry because the ellipse is already full, but they are none the wiser, because there is no way of knowing they should have been in.

If it truly is a random process having nothing to do with the ticket, then people are still being screwed, because that means there are fewer chances available (unless you align yourself with a larger group of people earlier in the day, increasing your odds of being taken in with a larger group). And, unless Clear Channel takes this into account and spreads out the beeps so that fewer beeps are given out early and therefore there are still chances available later into the evening, then people coming in later will find the computers and scanners packed up and gone.

In any case, this is all contrary to point f quoted above.

I have seen it argued here on the boards that it is next to impossible for everyone up to the last person entering to have an equal chance, statistically, because that would mean the last person would automatically have to get in. I understand that, although it is pure semantics. But statistically, one would think that there should at least one ticket beeped in out of the last 50 or 100 people entering. There were literally hundreds coming in after me (both times the equipment was packed up, I had gotten there around 7:30), so that means hundreds also missed their chance.

Too much BS and potential for scamming and abuse of the rules. Go back to first come, first serve.

 

[mabel]

And, unless Clear Channel takes this into account and spreads out the beeps so that fewer beeps are given out early and therefore there are still chances available later into the evening, then people coming in later will find the computers and scanners packed up and gone.

When I went, it seemed like the scans were heavily weighted at the beginning of the line. I was #88, though I ended up lagging a bit further back in line after returning to my apt to drop stuff off. I'd say 2/3-1/2 of the groups in front of us got in from what I saw. Though, it never really seemed to fill up until after Patti Smith's set, so I don't know if there was an initially high saturation of scans that lulled out for a while or what?? Either way, I think it's a flawed system.

 

[ckonanz]

I also think that is random. A saw a girl that got her ticket scanned, then she said she was waiting for someone and got back in the line. Then she changed to another computer and got in. If her ticket number was stored in a computer she wouldn´t got in the second time.

 

[gvox]

Absolutely. Twice.

EDIT: sorry the quote didnt work...this was in response to the person who asked if anyone scanned into the ellipse with an e-ticket....

 

[redkat]

If that is indeed the case, I wonder if there are "winning" bar codes on e-tickets? Has anyone here scanned in with an e-ticket?

Just out of curiosity...

I did.

 

[gvox]

superman would like to think that ticketmaster can sort out the serial codes of GA vs. non GA tickets by a simple click of a button.

superman sure knows that he can sort all sorts of information at the daily planet simply using microsoft excel. superman also thinks that organizations as huge and wealthy as ticketmaster, clear channel, principal management/u2 would have a few computer tech guys who may no a thing or two about uploading databases with relative ease... consideirng how most high school freshmen could do it.

Exactly. Anyone with a knowledge of dbs can attest to how quickly a db download and subsequent queries on said db will take...a minute or two tops for the daily download and milliseconds for each query

And no, it is not unfair to anyone arriving 8pm and onward. The show has begun by then (by show I mean entire show).

Show up and get in line by 6:30 when the doors open, and you'll get a scan chance just like everyone else. If you cant arrange your affairs to do even that much, you dont have anything to complain about really..

 

[gvox]

Well Gabe is a big supporter of the lottery. So if the system is truly how he says it is, I don't see how he could support a system that screws people over like that.

But, I don't think the system is as he says it is. I think they just set it to randomly beep every now and then.

Someone has said they have seen a ticket get scanned, it didn't beep, but then it got scanned again and it did beep. So that would go against his theory.

It absolutely does not go against that theory.

What does your grocery clerk do when he/she runs that can of peas over the scanner and no price comes up?

Scans it again.

Think about it.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

f. Random selection will continue for the full capacity of the floor. (From the first person arriving to the last person arriving, everyone will have an equal opportunity to enter the Ellipse)

this is the criticaly flawed statement on u2.com that has fucked up everything.

what they state here simply can not be done. if this were true, then the last person scanned in would get into the ellipse every single time... which of course would 'cause a riot to be the last one in. because if, let's say, it's a 1 in 6 chance of getting in... and of the last 6 GA ticket holders to go in, the second one beeps, then the last 4 have no chance of getting in. so this statement can not be followed through, and if they just would have worded it better, all of this controversy and conspiracy theory would not exist.

all they needed to do was state that the scanning would continue up until the ticketed show start time. let's say that start time is at 7:30. anyone who shows up between 6 and 7:30 is gaurnateed a chance to be scanned in. after 7:30, all bets are off, and the scanners can and will be shut off at any time, depending on how many people were scanned in between 6 and 7:30.

so then people would know full well that if they don't show up before the ticketed start time, they're running the risk of the scanners being shut down at any time, and they would have nothing to bitch and moan about if they showed up after the opener and couldn't get scanned in.

and as for the conspiracy theories... i really thing if there was some magic button that the scanner could press to allow certain people in and others not that someone would have seen it by now. there've been enough people around here who've been to enough shows that someone would have seen the sketchy shit going on if it was in fact going on.

i don't think the lottery is a bad idea per say... i just think it's been run poorly and not explained well enough. a more in depth explanation of every last trivial detail of the system would have solved most if not all of this bitching.

 

[gvox]

If Gabe's story is correct then the system is even more bullshit. If they decide to let people bring in 3, 4 or 5 per winning ticket than they will run out of wristbands before the people who show up later and have "precoded" winning tickets.

Not if they have built in a margin of leniency into the total capacity of the ellipse vs. tickets originally precoded for ellipse entry.

EDIT: not only that, but what about the following situation? What if, and this has happened for me personally a couple of times, person a. has two or three people with them, the first person in the group scans, and the rest jump and down, and dont even bother to scan? There is potentially two or three more ellipse positions to be 'given away'. I imagine that happens quite a bit. So there is room for giving away ellipse passes ie margin of error number, people who havent shown, precoded tickets that never bothered to scan etc etc.

NOT saying thats how it was done, that part I havent talked to anyone about, but it seems logical.

Any band would want to make sure that if for some reason the originally precoded tickets didnt result in a seemlingly packed ellipse, they could allow some more in. Remember the band needs the crowd in front of them.....as the tour progresses on...they discover just how much more leniecny they can have, based on averages across the shows...and thus why things have opened up a bit on this leg...



Im not saying I support it 100%. But I think it does a more effective job of giving the majority of fans more of a chance of getting close to the band at least once..

 

[gvox]

and they would have nothing to bitch and moan about if they showed up after the opener and couldn't get scanned in.

and as for the conspiracy theories... i really thing if there was some magic button that the scanner could press to allow certain people in and others not that someone would have seen it by now. there've been enough people around here who've been to enough shows that someone would have seen the sketchy shit going on if it was in fact going on.

i don't think the lottery is a bad idea per say... i just think it's been run poorly and not explained well enough. a more in depth explanation of every last trivial detail of the system would have solved most if not all of this bitching.

Notably, most of the bitching is being done by a minority, the GA line elitists who feel they have have some special 'hardcore fan' right to be in front of U2 for all 20 of the shows they went to this tour

Does anyone believe in good vibrations and positivity? I do. I never complained about the u2.com membership. I told people to relax about the pre-sale. I didn't cut lines, harass people who had a friend showing up a bit later. Tried to be a good linemate whenever my circumstances allowed me to line up. When I couldnt line up because of working, stood whereever felt comfortable on the floor and had an amazing time. Gave my spot up to girls who couldnt see around me. The few times I had a sign, tried to keep it small and not block others view for more than a very few seconds per show. Let many others get at the band to the point of even being pushed out of my own chance when we met the band outside venues (didnt even get a single autograph or picture until Saturday, even tho I've met them plenty) Gave away tickets to complete strangers who had no way else to get in. Didnt complain about setlists. Tried to help people with rides, rooms, made a hell of alot of friends. Went on sheer blind faith in some people. This tour worked out wonderfully for me.

So for all those who are done on the tour and who are still here complaining, really all I can say is I feel sorry for you. Did you not enjoy yourself this tour? What's the matter then?

I'm done, my tour is over...for now at least...

Only regret? Not seeing Kanye open. Everything else...priceless..



See ya in....2006???

 

[mabel]

and as for the conspiracy theories... i really thing if there was some magic button that the scanner could press to allow certain people in and others not that someone would have seen it by now. there've been enough people around here who've been to enough shows that someone would have seen the sketchy shit going on if it was in fact going on.

I'm thinking there is a "magic button" that allows people in. It's not on the scanner, but on the laptop. My ticket wouldn't scan, so the guy (not the scanner woman, but another guy who was working there, standing next to the table) hit a button on the laptop and I got into the ellipse when my ticket wouldn't scan. I'm not saying that this means that repeat GA-ers who get to know the people working the line/scanner are getting a free ride in, but there is a button (as far as I could tell) that can be hit to come up "Vertigo! Vertigo! Vertigo!"...Then again, I suppose that button could just be the equivalent of pulling up what the next scan would have been, if it's numerically random. I don't know. Whatever it was, it worked in my favor.

 

[redkat]

Aren't people with kids getting into the ellipse all the time.

Are they just "let in" or do they scan vertigo? If people with kids always scan vertigo then there must be a magic button.

 

[mabel]

Aren't people with kids getting into the ellipse all the time.

Are they just "let in" or do they scan vertigo? If people with kids always scan vertigo then there must be a magic button.

I think a lot of them go up to the ellipse wristband table after they're scanned and just say "I've got a kid, can I get into the ellipse" (or something to that effect). And I've read other things about them being approached on the main floor by staff who gives them wristbands. So I suppose that might shoot a hole in my magic button theory.

 

[Liesje]

The computer randomizes it, not the ticket itself. And yes, multiple people can get in in a row and it's still a random process. If the ticket won't scan, they hit the space bar and again it'll give you a random response (Vertigo or Proceed to Floor). A few of my tickets never scanned and they hit the space bar for a result. It's not "magic" in the sense that it will always return Vertigo.

 

[gvox]

Everyone in my row in both Buffalo and Cleveland had the space bar pressed as part of their scanning sequence. It wasnt done 'because their ticket wouldnt scan'.

I did notice that though, it didnt seem to be the way it was done in other cities.

 

[mabel]

Hmmm...intersting. I suppose I did just end up getting lucky. Well, that's more fun! I was thinking it was their default, "the ticket won't scan, let 'em in" button. Kind of like letting the people with kids in: When in doubt, send them to the ellipse. Guess not!

And gabrielvox, for my ticket at least, the they hit the space bar (I guess...I didn't really notice what he hit, just that he hit a button) after the woman tried scanning my ticket 3 or 4 times, and nothing came up. I didn't really notice them hitting it for anyone else who scanned properly in front of me, like you saw in Buffalo and Cleveland. , indeed!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

they hit the spacebar after scanning my ticket in philadelphia in may... no dice. same thing for the two people who i was with in line. ticket scanned, space bar hit, proceed to the floor.

as for the kids thing... we have all seen people with kids who didn't get into the ellipse. again, for the most part, i think it's just part of the random process.

that or they're picked off the floor and given wristbands there.

 

[MysteryGirl]

Let's say Joe is only going to 1 U2 show, and doesn't really know how the whole lottery/ellipse thing works. So Joe decides to go to U2.com and read up on it. Joe finds this:



So Joe thinks cool, my ticket says 7:30 showtime. I will have some dinner with my wife, show up at 7:30 and have a chance to get inside the ellipse.

Let's say Joe did end up having a ticket that was "precoded" to be a wining lottery ticket, so he and his wife should have been inside the ellipse. But when he gets there, to his surprise, they are not scanning anymore because they had run out of wristbands.

They had decided to allow some people to bring in more than 1 guest, thus causing them to run out of wristbands early. They effectively gave away Joe's wristband to someone who shouldn't have gotten it.

Thus, Joe did everything right, but got fucked out his shot to the ellipse.

So tell me, how is this a good system?

As far as I'm concerned, no one should get into the ellipse if they show up at 7:30pm.

7:30 AM, yes. 7:30PM, no!

 

[MysteryGirl]

i love these kind of posts, the "i know something that you don't know, and i'm not going to share" variety...

if you really did know something (and were a REAL fan...) you'd do more than just post brags about it.