joyfulgirl said:
Wow, we really see this one differently because when I hear the word rape, I also think of fathers sneaking into their daughter's beds, priests cornering boys, women being drugged and sexually assaulted, a woman saying goodnight to her date only to be raped at gunpoint instead. To me, they are all violent experiences. I see being robbed at knifepoint, for example, as a less violent experience than being raped by a guy I went to dinner with.
that's interesting ... i wonder if you have a more nuanced view of rape due to gender? as i've said, this isn't something i spend a whole lot of time thinking about, and i hope people can appreciate that i'm doing my thinking by writing.
i suppose i am drawing a distinction between the rape-at-knifepoint (as opposed to a robbing-at-gunpoint, which is something i *do* worry about living where i live) and the "date rape scenario" is that i associate rape with a strong threat of violence and malice, and i don't see the strong violence and malice in the date rape scenario. i see other things, i see misogyny, i see domination, i see arrogance, i see violation, i see psychological trauma, but i don't see the intent to do grevious harm as in the knifepoint scenario. i see intent to get one's way, i see intent to prove manliness at the expense of someone else, but i don't see intent to destroy the other person (even though forms of destruction might occur in the aftermath).
is that a fair distinction? they may all be forms of violence, but i think to different degrees, and i think the intent of the perpetrator might matter here.
or does it? i'm really not sure, i have no answers, i'm just asking questions and thinking out loud.
i guess i see one as directly related to sex, and the other as a means of imposing grevious bodily harm in a particularly psychologically nasty form.
i also think that this is directly related to my experiences. firstly, as a gay man, i fear violence (particularly getting bashed) and though i haven't picked up anyone in a long time (and have always thought that to be a particularly risky activity) i wouldn't fear unwanted sex so much as i would fear being beaten and robbed or murdered. perhaps that's a bad assumption on my part, and perhaps i'm putting too much faith in my own physicality, but that is my honest initial reaction.
the second thing that sticks in my mind are the college experiences i've alluded to. again, none of this happened directly to me, but i can think of two distinct examples where women who i know and adore felt as if they were raped, and as much as it hurts me to say this, i really didn't agree with them
based on the information i had. it really seemed like, to me, a case of women who drank too much and did something they regretted.
and i felt terribly for feeling that way, and offered them as much support as they wanted, but deep down, that was my honest conclusion.
so it seemed like they had sex that they regretted, sex that they might not have had if they had been sober, but i don't think i can see that as rape, exactly, because i have to think that part of rape (as AliE has said) has to do with the intent of the perpetrator, and knowing one (but not both) of the guys involved in these two situations, i can 100% vouch for his character -- perhaps i am wrong, but i would vouch for him in a court of law without a second thought.
where situations like those lead us to are silly laws like in the state where i went to college -- if a woman has a single drink, she is legally unable to give consent. that strikes me as tremendously sexist, and one of the themes of my posts (i hope) has been that i believe in the sexual freedom and sexual complexity of women. i think women should be free to have sex with no guilt or shame. i think women should be able to drink as much as they want and make good or bad decisions. i want women to be empowered to do whatever they want with their bodies, so long as they are responsible for their actions -- please, because i can sense this coming already, don't throw at me any hoary cliches about women asking to be raped or anything. it's very clear to me in these situations (moving away from the "Rescue Me" scenario, which is different from what i'm discussing in this post) that no means no, that sex can stop at any point, and that consent kicks off any sexual experience.
i guess i don't want there to be different rules for men and women, as i see that as sexist, but perhaps there needs to be -- as was explained to me in one of the several rape prevention classes i went to in college, the man has "the weapon."
so maybe biology does matter?