Continue.
Kaine makes plenty of sense. And Hillary as a one-termer is certainly a real possibility, so long as the GOP can find someone other than Cruz.
Continue.
From the last thread, from Irvine:
This is the issue in my mind: the choice of Kaine pushes the Clinton ticket even further to the center, which is evidence that she's not reacting against Trump's extremism but rather conceding something to it on the off chance that Kaine brings in a few suburban white men on the fence.
No one will give him credit for it, I'm sure, but Deep was right in that Trump seems to have created this pick. You can call it practical all you like, but it seems more like a gutless pick to me than anything else.
Despite some of the less charity comments
Yes, like the "simpletons" comment from you. I have little patience for your trolling. Don't push it.
So?
I don't get what the issue is here. Who would be a "courageous" pic, and how would that be better? By this metric, Biden seems gutless and Palin seems courageous.
Do you want to see the Democratic Party move farther to the left or farther to the center? If the latter, that's fine; it's your call. But if it's the former, I find it really hard to see how this pick helps the cause.
Just a few weeks ago, people were wondering why the hell Tim Kaine would ever be on the ticket, and now all of a sudden he's a great choice. What changed in that time exactly?
And bringing up Palin is a red herring. She was wildly unqualified and an obvious desperation move, whereas there are plenty of other capable, progressive Democrats who might have filled out this ticket.
Nothing will do more to advance progressive issues than the defeat in Donald Trump in the fall.
It's as simple as that.
You mean the email about the article that came out a month after Bernie had already gotten crushed in NY, was essentially eliminated, but was staying around being a cranky pants about the whole thing?Those Sanders folks won't be too clingy to HRC after Kaine and the DNC wikileaks dump.
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Be definition, yes. It's a story.Come on man, you can't pretend it's not a story.
He's not dumb, he's not irresponsible, he's boring but not unlikeable. Basically he's...okay. I'm a bit disappointed that in an election that I believe the other side will lose in a landslide AND in an election that could set up the Dems for a very nice future reign, the choice was made to go with "okay."
CALLER: Hi my name is Pheasant and I live in Kansas. My question is, why — you guys talk a lot about politics — I would love to hear you guys talk about third party politics: Independent Party, the Green Party, and the Libertarian Party.
I’m a huge Green Party supporter; I’m voting for Jill Stein. And I realize that people say that if you vote for these, it’s just a wasted vote, it’s a vote for Republicans.
But I also feel we need to start sending a message to Washington and to our political leaders that we’re sick and tired of this two party system and candidates who are controlled by corporations and special interest groups. And they can’t piss off their donors, you know, because they buy the votes.
So I’m just wondering why you guys never talk about it because I think Jill Stein — she’s a member of the Green Party — she’s amazing. And for the people that bitch and moan about… Hillary didn’t always support gay rights, and Bernie didn’t always support this… I agree with you Dan, I think it's ridiculous how — that people can change. That’s what we want, we try to get people — hey, stop being a homophobic asshole, hey stop being a racist prick. But you know the Green Party has never changed. They’ve always supported gay rights, equality for all, the environment…
DAN SAVAGE: Alright, blah blah blah. Sorry I had to stop you. Yeah, let’s talk about the Green Party for just a moment, or third parties, getting a third party movement off the ground here in this country. Because we are sick of the two party system!
Here’s how you fucking do that: you run people not just for fucking president every four fucking years.
I have a problem with the Greens, I have a problem with the Libertarians. I have a problem with these fake, attention seeking, grandstanding Green/Libertarian party candidates who pop up every four years, like mushrooms in shit, saying that they're building a third party. And those of us who don't have a home in the Republican Party, don't have a home in the Democratic Party, can't get behind every Democratic position or Republican position, should gravitate toward these third parties. And help build a third party movement by every four fucking years voting for one of these assholes like Jill fucking Stein, who I'm sure is a lovely person, she's only an asshole in this aspect.
If you're interested in building a third party, a viable third party, you don’t start with president. You don't start by running someone for fucking president.
Where are the Green Party candidates for city councils? For county councils? For state legislatures? For state assessor? For state insurance commissioner? For governor? For fucking dogcatcher? I would be SO willing to vote for Green Party candidates who are starting at the bottom, grassroots, bottom up, building a third party, a viable third party.
You don't do that by trotting out the reanimated corpse of Ralph fucking Nader every four fucking years. Or his doppelgänger, whoever it is now, Jill Stein and some asshole-to-be-named four years from now. You start by running grassroots, local campaigns. And there've been — and I'm sure we're going hear from lots of people out there listening — there have been a couple of Green Party candidates who’ve run in other races here and there across the country. But no sustained effort to build a Green Party nationally. Just this griping, bullshitty, grandstanding, fault-finding, purity-testing, holier than thou-ing, that we are all subjected to every four fucking years by the Green Party candidate.
And the folks, including you caller — and I love you and I respect you and we’re having this debate and I'm not treating you with kid gloves because I respect you — who are fooled by them, who are sucked into this bullshit, who are tricked by these grandstanding, attention-seeking, bullshit-spewing charlatans, into wasting your vote.
Which is what you are going to do, I'm sorry to say, to circle back to the top of your call. You are essentially, if you're voting for Jill Stein, helping to potentially elect Donald J. Trump president of these United States. Which would be a catastrophe.
Which is what some people say that they want. People supported Ralph Nader in 2000 and said there was no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush, therefore we could all afford to throw our votes away, protest-style, on Ralph Nader, who had no hope of getting elected, because there was no difference between Bush and Gore.
These same people, at the same time, said that George Bush was so manifestly obviously terrible that he would bring the revolution if he got himself elected somehow. They didn’t say this about Gore, he wouldn’t bring the revolution. They’re exactly the same, exactly as awful, but one would bring the revolution and one wouldn’t. Which means they weren't exactly the same and they weren't equally awful.
And we're hearing the same thing now about Hillary and Donald. That they’re both equally awful. They're both equally terrible, corrupt two party system, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it. Fuck them both, fuck both their houses! Vote for Jill Stein!
And if Donald should get elected, oh he’s so terrible, so much worse than the equally awful Hillary Clinton, that his election will bring the revolution.
It's bullshit.
The revolution did not come in 2000 when George W. Bush got close enough to winning to steal the White House. It will not come if Donald J. Trump gets his ass elected.
Disaster will come. And the people who’ll suffer are not going to be the pasty white Green Party supporters — pasty white Jill Stein and her pasty white supporters. The people who’ll suffer are going to be people of color. People of minority faiths. Queer people. Women.
Don’t do it. Don't throw your vote away on Jill Stein/vote for, bankshot-style, Donald Trump.
And if you want to build a viable third party, more power to you. I could see myself voting for a Green Party candidate for president in 25 years, after I've seen Green Party candidates getting elected to state legislatures, getting elected to governorships, getting elected to Congress. Then you can run some legitimate motherfucker for president.
Dan Savage on Jill Stein: Just No. - Slog - The Stranger
This is it for me, too.
It could also be summed up in two other words: Supreme Court.
i
what Democrats need to do is start turning out in off-year elections and not just show up when the cool black guy is on the ticket.