Ireland Bankrupt - Should U2 Move back to Dublin to help out

[james t kirk]

My first thread.

Been a U2 fan since 1984 (since the second I heard war). Probably longer than most of you have been alive. I've always loved their music, their passion, their energy, and even their politics.

I was slightly taken aback when U2 packed up its corporate offices from Ireland and moved the entire show to the Netherlands in essentially a means to avoid paying taxes. Oh, I listened to the arguments. I even defended the move to my friends who would kid me (somewhat mercilessly) about the hypocrisy of Bono and U2 (urging governments around the world to increase foreign aid spending, but they themselves were doing everything in their power to avoid paying their taxes.) I must admit, it was a hard thing for a fan such as me to stare at in the face and wonder what the hell they were thinking. Not only for the hypocrisy of it all, but also for the callousness of it all - i.e. you had an office full of people in Dublin - whose families presumably lived in Dublin and suddenly you're relocating them all to the Netherlands.

Anyway, today we have the news that Ireland is seeking financial aid from the IMF and the European Union in order to stave off insolvency. It's very sad to see this unfold on Television (here in Toronto). I understand how the Irish people would feel humiliated at having to accept a bailout from the international community - too weak to address their own massive problems. Ireland faces mounting deficits, increased taxes and unemployment and despair.

It is my opinion that U2 Inc. needs to do the right thing and move back to Ireland - now more than ever.

I wonder if the band has even thought of this.

Time to put your money where your mouth is Bono. Make me a believer again.

 

[Moser]

No, they shouldn't have to do anything. They have done so much for Ireland already.

 

[U2387]

No hypocrisy involved.

A business move is a business move.

U2 Ltd, the venture in question, handles revenues from radio airplay and CD sales. These come from all over the world, so I don't see why people are up in arms about it not being headquartered in Ireland. Its not like they are making money on Irish territory with Irish infrastructure and Irish physical/human capital and then sheltering the profits in the Netherlands. They are an international business, so why not locate where the tax climate is the most favorable?

This has been done by many artists(The Stones for one) with very little press. People just look for any and every reason to falsely paint Bono as a hypocrite. It wouldn't be an issue if Bono stayed home and didn't meet with Bush, Blair, Obama, etc and actually get things accomplished. We like to hear about celebrities overdosing on drugs, getting married 5 times and getting arrested.

U2 was paying no royalties taxes at all before the move as Ireland didn't tax royalties.

So when Ireland introduced such a tax, they moved to the lower taxed Netherlands, which, by the way, gives a higher percentage of GDP in foreign aid than Ireland.

As for the employees in Ireland, we can't presume anything happened to them at all. We don't know. If I were to make a guess(and guesses are just that, I don't know), knowing U2's commitment to family and private life, they found something for these folks to do that didn't alter their living arrangements. Nothing in how they conduct themselves from a business standpoint suggests that they'd callously leave anyone out in the cold, in fact, the exact opposite.(they don't have to purchase carbon offsets for their tour, don't have to sell seats off for AIDS drugs, the list goes on).

As for U2's contributions to Ireland given the prospective insolvency, they should feel no obligation. They are most likely the 4 biggest individual contributors to the Irish tax base and we know they spend a lot of time over there when not touring(studio, homes, etc), send their kids to school there, etc. Ireland has a much higher income tax than the US and a substantial Value Added Tax that they pay whenever they buy things.

The Clarence and other business ventures contribute as well.

Ireland, to a great extent bought into the same bs remove all oversight, spend all the money give the big banks whatever they want and question nothing philosophy the US bought into. And the government helped facilitate it.

Measures are being taken by the IMF and EU to stabilize the situation, and the Irish government needs to be more responsible in the future and the citizenry more questioning, just like anywhere else.

Times are tough everywhere, Ireland is in the same boat with Iceland, Spain, Portugal and Greece regarding debt.

Aid can be humiliating, but we're all in the same boat now and lets remember, IMF/EU loans were in large part responsible for laying the foundation for the Celtic Tiger.

Either way, I really don't see how moving U2 ltd back would even make a dent in the problem. If we're looking for symbolic value, U2 has plenty of financial roots in Ireland, so we don't need that. I certainly don't see how Bono or anyone else helped put Ireland in the situation they are in now, so it follows that U2 "coming back" wouldn't be a necessary response to the situation Ireland faces now.

Should U2 be concerned for the state of their country? Should they do everything in their power to help? Absolutely, and they are. Surely, being a fan since 1984 you know about self aid and numerous other projects U2 worked with to bring attention to unemployment and despair in Ireland. Long before Ireland was cool.

Should they feel guilt, so much so that it causes them to uproot a 4 year old operation and bring it to Ireland in the middle of a major world tour?

Absolutely not!

I don't mean to come across as a jerk, I understand what you are saying and why U2 should care. I just feel very strongly on this issue.

I look forward to more posts from you, welcome to interference!!

 

[europop2005]

never say "longer than most of you"...theres always someone who's been farther

 

[financeguy]

Agree wth above posts, U2 don't owe Ireland anything. Last Christmas Eve Bono was busking on Grafton Street to raise funds for the homeless and this year he will probably be doing similar.

 

[Aygo]

From the perspective of an European... Although I totally understand U2's side, I can understand as well why U2 are so often called hypocrites. So, U2 are one of the most important enterprises in Ireland and they prefer not to contribute to their country's State like any other person/enterprise... Prefering to run away to a country where they know they'll be able to escape from certain taxes... Specially after knowing well that the U2-machine is raises so much money?
And then, Bono comes to the media preaching about better distribution of richness? Come on...
I'm a huge U2 fan, but I can't put a blind on my eyes and I have to understand some people's anger.

The IMF is not gonna resolve anything, as well as it's not going in Portugal (when it comes in early 2011, most probably), nor as it didn't in 1979 and in 1983 in Portugal, nor as it didn't in Argentina (...that only had some peace and economic growth when they expelled the IFM out of there).

Ireland's and Portugal's problem is called Franco-German interests over the Euro. When Europe has a real project of communion, when all the countries understand they have to make sacrifices (starting on Portugal, when all the countries understand each role in the UE, when all the countries understand that Sweden's reality is not comparable to Portugal's reality (which is not comparable to Italy's reality... which is not comparable to Romania's reality, etc etc etc), when Germany and France stop acting like they're the owners of the UE remember that they accepted to join a pact that involved weaker and much smaller economies... Then, our problems will start to disappear.

I think that, artistically, U2 lost a huge opportunity to screw a little bit on the same old discourse of politics (that I feel it's a little wasted from them, almost loses a little credibility) and maybe approach other "materias"...
Knowing the danger that UE is running (in the last months we've seen many UE leaders talking about the PIIGS having to leave the Euro zone and, worse!, the possibility that the UE project may not work in a short/average time)...

...Why didn't U2 (for instance) play... "Zooropa"? I could perfectly imagine, with that huge stage, "Babel/Zooropa" being the intro for the political chapter of U2's setlist (of course, once again, with a different political approach than the same usual one every tour)...
Oh, I forgot... U2 never tried seriously to really play "Zooropa" 18 years ago, why would they switch "Pride", "Elevation" or "Mysterious Ways" place for something like "Zooropa"?

Besides, knowing what many people think about U2's behaviours (described in my first paragraphs) why would they play something that contradicts it?

 

[james t kirk]

I was just watching a show on the CBC about Ireland, which is what motivated me to post (as I was watching the Irish Embassador to Canada (a fellow named Basset) being interviewed by Evan Solomon, I was thinking about U2.) Apparently, taxes in Ireland are far lower than other places in Europe (so much so that other countries had previously complained about unfair advantage). Also, the current crisis is not a result of anything the Irish Gov't did persay, but rather what the Irish banks did - and that is speculate on real estate so much so that the prices became unsustainable. The Irish gov't appears to have been fairly well managed (unlike Greece where the Gov't was an unmitigated disaster. (Hence the reason the Irish bail out came so much faster and easier than the Greek bailout in the summer.) The Irish economic problem stems from the banks being largely unregulated (which I suppose you could blame the gov't for) and taking stupid chances as a result in the real estate market. The Irish Gov't has had to essentially front the Irish banks massive amounts of money in order to keep the banks afloat, in order to ensure that Ireland has a banking system. It will take years to work its way through the system, even decades.

Apparently U2 (until the famous move) was Ireland's largest export in terms of dollars. Them moving to the Netherlands was a business decision (I understand), however, it undoubtedly has had a detrimental effect on the Irish Gov't (whether U2 as people continue to live in Dublin or not.)

Their move to the Netherlands has never sat well with me. They claim to be Rock n Roll and Rock and Roll is more than a business, it's also an attitude. It's about not about selling out to the almighty dollar. (Whether that is true or not is another debate in its entirety.)

As it stands right now, unemployment is high in Ireland. For the first time in about 15 years, Ireland is losing its inhabitants to emmigration (as it did so many times in the past). Undoubtedly, the best and the brightest will go and in doing so, hurt Ireland even more.

I for one would be thrilled to see U2 step up and do the right thing and move operations back to Dublin.

(BTW, I've been through relocations - Inc decides to relocate thousands of kilometres to another city - it's hugely stressful. You've been with an organization for 10 years, your wife is from the City you're in, you're kids call it home and suddenly it's move orelse you're out of a job. It's not something anyone with any kind of roots wants to face. Believe me.)

 

[financeguy]

Ireland's and Portugal's problem is called Franco-German interests over the Euro. When Europe has a real project of communion, when all the countries understand they have to make sacrifices (starting on Portugal, when all the countries understand each role in the UE, when all the countries understand that Sweden's reality is not comparable to Portugal's reality (which is not comparable to Italy's reality... which is not comparable to Romania's reality, etc etc etc), when Germany and France stop acting like they're the owners of the UE remember that they accepted to join a pact that involved weaker and much smaller economies... Then, our problems will start to disappear.

Agreed, Aygo. In my opinion, the euro will evitably break assunder because it has always been managed to suit the dictates of the Franco-German axis. I am very happy that Ireland will have its own currency back in a few years. I also agree that Q1 2011 is likely timeline for Portugal IMF treatment.

When Spain falls, the euro is toast.

 

[financeguy]

Apparently, taxes in Ireland are far lower than other places in Europe (so much so that other countries had previously complained about unfair advantage).

This is a common fallacy in the international media, probably put about by propagandists for the Franco-German axis. Our corporation tax rate is low but not rates on income or consumption.

 

[Aygo]

Agreed, Aygo. In my opinion, the euro will evitably break assunder because it has always been managed to suit the dictates of the Franco-German axis. I am very happy that Ireland will have its own currency back in a few years. I also agree that Q1 2011 is likely timeline for Portugal IMF treatment.

When Spain falls, the euro is toast.

I think that's gonna happen. Portugal's gonna (supposedly-)fail soon. Knowing that Spain and Portugal are really dependant on eachother (we're one of the main - if not the main - markets to Spain), Spain will go right right after. After that, there's no more monetary emmergency rescue. That'll be the collapse of the Euro (and, who knows, of the UE) because of the worst strategy or big masterplan for Europe... Or the lack of it.

Although I think IFM's "help" will hurt Ireland, I think they were very intelligent by saying: «Since we had to save the bank (TWICE!), the money you gonna lend us will be for the bank and you're not gonna touch the State's debt, because it's not the State's fault the present situation». But I think in the end it won't matter: the people (who are the ones who really saved the irish bank and the irish economy) are the ones who are going to pay (and that's not gonna be soft...) for it.

Unfortunately, Portugal's coming next. Portugal has only one big problem: economic growth (we had an average of 1,5% this decade - we call it "the lost decade"), mostly because of the economic model started in the mid 80's by Cavaco Silva (curiously, now he's President... ready to be reelected in January!... Ignorant and masochistic people...) who did let rivers and seas of UE funds enter in Portugal for 10/15 years, distributed those funds for his friends who rule the country though their private banks (which Portugal had to nationalize because of the huge hole discovered in 2007/8 - no one explains us where all that money went), gave money to farmers and fishers to buy SUV's and bulldozers in a compensation to end with their activities, and... closed forever some of the most important heavy industries we had and did shut the possibility of developping a real rentable policy for agriculture and fishing (knowing the huge sea ressources/possibilities we have) and transformed Portugal in a country of... "third sector services". Here's the result.

Besides that, our public debt (76,6% in 2009) is much lower than many UE countries and our budget deficit (9,3% in 2009) is just a little lower than the average (not mentioning that this PM lowered that value from 6,8 to 2,6% in 2 years, in 2007), we have a healty bank system and we didn't have speculative/economic bubble, nor we didn't hide/fake the numbers of our public accounts like Greece did.

But the "financial markets" always seem to find a great reason to punish Portugal. First it was the pressure for the UE stability program to be approved. Then, it was the need of austerity measures to end with the Social State, like other countries did. Two weeks ago, it was the "urgent need" of the annual budget to be approved. Now the reason is the real application of that budget and we're already talking about the "fear" of the rescue fund from the UE. What's next tomorrow?

UE doesn't have a solution for it and doesn't want to find one. Instead, the "owners" of the UE, let the Gods (financial markets) do their dirty job, so other smaller markets like Portugal or Greece can be more vulnerable... which enrich France and Germany... because they buy our debts that earns its value in these situations.

It's the end of an utopia called UE. Again, U2 had the perfect song that reflects that Europe means (specially today) and they let the opportunity of showing an opinon go away.

 

[Axver]

U2 moving some of their business back to Dublin would make any meaningful contribution to Ireland's financial woes?

Only on Interference.

 

[digitize]

U2, instead of the EU, should provide the rescue package to the Irish Central Bank.

 

[Aygo]

U2 moving some of their business back to Dublin would make any meaningful contribution to Ireland's financial woes?

Only on Interference.

That's not the point. Of course it won't make the difference.
The point is that the symbolism of preffering to runaway to another tax-paradise, instead of submitting to the laws of their nation like any other person/enterprise/entity. Doesn't matter if they "made a lot for Ireland". That doesn't erase their responsabilities as any other irish that will gonna have to pay for a crisis they did not create.

 

[james t kirk]

Interesting about the broader question of the survival of the European Union.

I remember reading years ago an American Economist who predicted that the European Union would not survive its first currency crisis. At the time, I thought he was just another right wing American blowhard.

Who knows, maybe he was correct.

Portugal is undoubtedly next. The big question is Spain. Greece, Ireland, Portugal - they're small compared to Spain.

Really, all of Europe (save and except Germany) is a financial blackhole. Even France is drowning (as witnessed recently by their rediculous protests about raising the retirement age to 62 from 60). How much can the Germans afford to offer up to keep the rest of Europe afloat? Well, I guess the Dutch and the Belgians seem to have their act together, but they are too small to be able to offer up the quantities of Euros required by the PIIGS. Eventually Germany is going to take its ball and go home.

 

[james t kirk]

This is a common fallacy in the international media, probably put about by propagandists for the Franco-German axis. Our corporation tax rate is low but not rates on income or consumption.

If you added up all the taxes you pay in Ireland, what percentage would it be?

In Canada, by the time you figure Income tax (Federal and Provincial) plus Sales Tax, plus Property taxes - you're probably in the neighbour hood of 40 to 45% for anyone earning over say $85,000.00 a year.

 

[pepokiss]

but.. is Bono ok?


PS: could they play Zooropa in the tour? maybe

 

[Aygo]

Interesting about the broader question of the survival of the European Union.

I remember reading years ago an American Economist who predicted that the European Union would not survive its first currency crisis. At the time, I thought he was just another right wing American blowhard.

Who knows, maybe he was correct.

Portugal is undoubtedly next. The big question is Spain. Greece, Ireland, Portugal - they're small compared to Spain.

Really, all of Europe (save and except Germany) is a financial blackhole. Even France is drowning (as witnessed recently by their rediculous protests about raising the retirement age to 62 from 60). How much can the Germans afford to offer up to keep the rest of Europe afloat? Well, I guess the Dutch and the Belgians seem to have their act together, but they are too small to be able to offer up the quantities of Euros required by the PIIGS. Eventually Germany is going to take its ball and go home.

Germany is well... Because Germany still can export whatever they want to the other european markets. Still. It won't last long. Soon, Germany will drown too because the UE will as well.

...Unless their plan of putting on practice this sort of Marshall Plan commanded by them to the rest of the Europe goes ahead.

Why is it ridiculous to protest against the increase of the retirement age? Because people don't want to be told the same argument within 10 years, when someone increases it to 70 years old? Because people don't want to sell out to their conquered rights? Because people are tired of paying with austerity measures and the murder of the european model of the Social State due to the policies that don't bring intentionally the right distribution of richness produced, creating a viced cycle of circulation of richness in the countries?
Social State is NOT non-viable as many "theorists" are trying to sell us with their well-made (not for me) rhethoric. Does the State machine has to be severely rearraged? Definitely! Does its objectives and purposed need to be reduced? No way, only for those who sell us the same peanuts - I know with which intentions.

The UE is not going to survive because the project of an united and homogenic Europe is... an utopia. Europe always was, is and always be a mozaic of very heterogenic old and well-enraized cultures, ways of living and with old and mutual rivalities and hate. Did these guys think that the attempt of some sort of federalism in Europe would resolve that and erase the multiplicity cultural identites (many of them with centuries/milleniums) within such a small continent? Such naïveté...

 

[U2387]

This is a common fallacy in the international media, probably put about by propagandists for the Franco-German axis. Our corporation tax rate is low but not rates on income or consumption.

Exactly!

I mentioned that in my post, income brackets of 20 and 40% and a substantial VAT.

The reputation only comes from the low corporate tax rate(12%, financeguy?) and how it has allegedly helped fuel the mass relocation to Ireland during the boom years.

Correct me if I am wrong in any of this, but in terms of income and consumption taxes on the individual, Ireland is about on par with a lot of Europe when all is said and done.

Its most certainly much more of a burden than the US.

 

[LemonMelon]

I'm so happy I'm not the only person deranged enough to have thought of this. But, in my case, it was a joke.

U2 is already a source of Irish tourism as it is, but maybe they need to push it a bit harder. U2land has a nice ring to it, and McGuinness will see to it that green remains its national color.

 

[U2387]

From the perspective of an European... Although I totally understand U2's side, I can understand as well why U2 are so often called hypocrites. So, U2 are one of the most important enterprises in Ireland and they prefer not to contribute to their country's State like any other person/enterprise... Prefering to run away to a country where they know they'll be able to escape from certain taxes.

Come on, get real!

As I pointed out and financeguy agreed, they pay plenty of taxes to Ireland.

They are probably the 4 biggest individual contributors to this Irish tax base.

To say they are not contributing is flat out false.

I realize U2 still ducked higher tax rates, but very, very important from the standpoint of the whole "Ireland is losing money" argument is that Ireland had no royalties tax before the move, and when they went to implement one, U2 bailed to the Netherlands. Ireland never actually lost a dime of revenue that they previously depended on from U2.

On a better not, Aygo, I agree with your analysis of the EU! Its always been a precarious situation because Germany and France had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the group in the 1st place due to complaints of having to subsidize weaker Eastern European economies. This will most definitely be a very revealing test for the EU, and I think, as per FinanceGuy's interest, I know he studies this stuff, one of the biggest tests for the concept of regional/global government we've had. Looking like a failure as of now, reasons of course entirely up for debate and for a different forum entirely.

 

[BVS]

People are so uninformed about this subject...

Why can't these four guys in a rock band save Ireland?

 

[shart1780]

If your economy was failing and you had greater opportunity somewhere else then I'd suggest you move.

 

[Aygo]

Come on, get real!

As I pointed out and financeguy agreed, they pay plenty of taxes to Ireland.

They are probably the 4 biggest individual contributors to this Irish tax base.

To say they are not contributing is flat out false.

I realize U2 still ducked higher tax rates, but very, very important from the standpoint of the whole "Ireland is losing money" argument is that Ireland had no royalties tax before the move, and when they went to implement one, U2 bailed to the Netherlands. Ireland never actually lost a dime of revenue that they previously depended on from U2.

I still think that none of what U2 have done for Ireland erases their responsability as taxpayers like any other entity. Did U2 make a huge effort to raise Ireland? So did any other person that pays their taxes. So did any other local store or big multinational irish brand (which is what U2 are).
U2 is no exception. Or, do they think they are? Do they remember that if it wasn't the other irish people to start to listen/buy to their music, they wouldn't be 0,1% of what they are today?

 

[mama cass]

it would just be a drop in an ocean of debt!

 

[mama cass]

Do they remember that if it wasn't the other irish people to start to listen/buy to their music, they wouldn't be 0,1% of what they are today?

they went to London early on too didn't they?

 

[mama cass]

People are so uninformed about this subject...

Why can't these four guys in a rock band save Ireland?

i know! LOL!!!

 

[mama cass]

France is drowning (as witnessed recently by their rediculous protests about raising the retirement age to 62 from 60).

i don't know if France will be hit quite as hard to be honest - lending/borrowing is EXTREMELY controlled by heavy duty regulations - a few years ago it was close on impossible to have an authorised overdraft and you would get heavily penalised (charged and BLACKLISTED!) if, god forbid, you did go accidentally overdrawn

mortgage lending is very low - banks have to follow strict guidelines on lending which is based on your available income, basically 30% of your net income after deducting any existing loans/repayments etc... so basically you don't get crazy multiples here

also, credit cards have been pretty much non-existent in France, sure you have direct debit visa/mastercards, but the credit card revolution really hasn't affected France, not in the same way as in the UK for example where you could constantly switch to new cards, do balance transfers to get the best deals etc - that is completely unheard of in France

although things are starting to change slowly now, for instance, store cards starting to offer you "credit limits" but which are extremely low compared to my experience in the UK still...

i just don't know if the French are as personal debt-ridden as the Brits for example... the problem in France is its crippling civil service and pen-pushers who do very little but cost the private sector an absolute fortune in huge and i mean HUGE taxes! small businesses/freelancers for example lose 50% of their income on social contributions and tax - basically we are expected to work 6 months for our families and 6 months for the State which is fucking ludicrous - and this is irrespective of income level - it is these charges which are sinking businesses in France - the system is unsustainable and that's what will cripple France... i guess it all amounts to the same thing, only France's problem stems from its own system and not a credit boom...

 

[Aygo]

i don't know if France will be hit quite as hard to be honest - lending/borrowing is EXTREMELY controlled by heavy duty regulations - a few years ago it was close on impossible to have an authorised overdraft and you would get heavily penalised (charged and BLACKLISTED!) if, god forbid, you did go accidentally overdrawn

mortgage lending is very low - banks have to follow strict guidelines on lending which is based on your available income, basically 30% of your net income after deducting any existing loans/repayments etc... so basically you don't get crazy multiples here

also, credit cards have been pretty much non-existent in France, sure you have direct debit visa/mastercards, but the credit card revolution really hasn't affected France, not in the same way as in the UK for example where you could constantly switch to new cards, do balance transfers to get the best deals etc - that is completely unheard of in France

although things are starting to change slowly now, for instance, store cards starting to offer you "credit limits" but which are extremely low compared to my experience in the UK still...

i just don't know if the French are as personal debt-ridden as the Brits for example... the problem in France is its crippling civil service and pen-pushers who do very little but cost the private sector an absolute fortune in huge and i mean HUGE taxes! small businesses/freelancers for example lose 50% of their income on social contributions and tax - basically we are expected to work 6 months for our families and 6 months for the State which is fucking ludicrous - and this is irrespective of income level - it is these charges which are sinking businesses in France - the system is unsustainable and that's what will cripple France... i guess it all amounts to the same thing, only France's problem stems from its own system and not a credit boom...

But you're forgetting that, unlike Portugal's State (for example), the french State is a relatively good manager. There's a considerable entrepeneur entrepeneur sector of the State that works very well, and that is one of the reasons why France is able to support a part of their very protective State.
French's State problem is the same of the portuguese one:
1) Having too much "boys" that the State feeds (I will never accept that public enterprises have 9 managers that earn €3M/year each - we don't produce enough richness to pay this absurdities) that are licking the State's ass for decades because they know that "Daddy will pay for every car they'll crash";
2) An oppressive tax-rate that does not seduces foreign investors to enter both countries;
3) Public-Private Partnerships: this is the most flagrant and ridiculous thing. Portuguese State prefers to give to privates the management of public infra-structures (roads, highways, highspeed trains, bridges, buildings, schools, hospitals... being managed like any other enterprise) and then the same State that "lent" something to the privates so they can have income... has to pay millionary rents for it... for decades.

France's case probably has many other specificities, but this is just a mere part of why Social State is viable... Unless Governments has the balls to end with this very good milk-suck... for some.

 

[Catman]

I'm afraid I am entirely uninformed on this matter, but that's only because, personally, it's pretty much a non-issue with me. I say let the band do whatever they want with their business. I know people love to point out the "hypocrisy" of Bono for being involved in a group decision (he could very well have advocated to keep the corporate offices in Ireland, but just lost out in a democratic decision... not that he would have, I imagine, been too terribly distraught over the decision), but the objectives for his campaigning seem to involve more than mere donation bins; they require cooperation on a national level for huge-ass, metric-fuck-ton debt cancellations sanctioned by people high enough up the governmental ladder to authorize these cancellations/ reductions.

I guess it all boils down to whether or not you believe Bono is genuine about the matter and not just using these issues as another spotlight for him to stand at the center of (perhaps I simplified this a little too much, but you get the idea)... and IMO, I think he's done quite a bit "behind the scenes" work to procure at least some semblance of credibility for the earnestness of his motives. Do I think he enjoys some of the attention he receives for his charity? Yes indeed, I do. But in no way do I think this lessens the impact of his work...

...and really, if his actions have saved just 1 life, does it matter? I'm sure the people benefiting from his causes don't exactly care so much if Bono feels good about himself

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

If your economy was failing and you had greater opportunity somewhere else then I'd suggest you move.

exactly. it may sound shitty or selfish, but i agree. keeping u2's money completely in ireland will not prevent this, it'll just delay the inevitable. then it'll also greatly affect u2 as they'd lose money and then could affect us - who knows what the band would do if they suddenly went broke? i won't go into a whole bunch of what-if scenarios (not only is that pointless but also totally irrelevant), but surely they'd have to change how they did things a little.