U2 ARE SPUD PEELERS AND NOBODY LIKES THEM

[GibsonGirl]

But now you're just talking hypotheticals. What if The Police hadn't disbanded? What if Lennon/McCartney worked it out? The fact remains, Echo wrote a particular style of music, and that particular style of music failed to resonate as strongly as U2's. Ian's live performances failed to resonate as strongly as Bono's. It's not all that hard to understand. And I'm sorry, but Ocean Rain is not as memorable as Unforgettable Fire.

I don't get the sympathy angle when it comes to the plummet in Echo's fortunes. Fact: McCulloch left the band in 1988 (from what I remember, because he's such a douche, let's not forget de Freitas briefly parted with the band after Ocean Rain) and de Freitas died in 1989. Not to take away from him, but he was the drummer.

Why are you taking this so seriously? I'm not! But what the hell, I'll bite.

Yes, I'm talking about this whole thing hypothetically. I'm only doing so in an attempt to illustrate why ol' Mac might feel the need to rip into U2 every now and then. Of course he's jealous! Of course he's childish! I'm not denying that. Put yourself in his shoes, though. Imagine that for the past seven years, you've wanted your band to be the best band in the world. You've gotten as close as you possibly can, and then it all comes crashing down around you. Not only that, the band you've been fond of publicly denouncing suddenly releases this massive, utterly astounding album that leaves critics and the public reeling. If you didn't feel even a twinge of resentment, I'd be surprised.

Ian and Will wrote the songs, if I remember correctly. And they used a drum machine at the very start. In my estimation, de Freitas' passing has ZERO to do with what they did/did not do up till 1989, by which time U2 ruled the world. When you say, "what they could have been if Pete de Freitas hadn't died", it just sounds silly, to be honest.

Just to clarify, at no point did I suggest that Pete's passing was the SOLE reason for the band's demise. I mentioned it as one of the internal issues that eventually sealed the deal. And even though he didn't write, he was still an important part of the band -- both Ian and Will have touched upon this in interviews. Do you think Larry writes? If Larry had died in '89, would U2 ever have been the same?

Edit: Oh, and the English major in me is twitching -- do not put phrases into quotations if they haven't actually been said. I did not in fact lament over "what [Echo and the Bunnymen] could have been if Pete de Freitas hadn't died," so to accuse me of sounding silly for saying it is, well, silly!

 

[Zoots]

I don't really care (clearly) but what exactly is there to hold a grudge for?

Yeah I don't understand this either! Sounds like pure jealousy to me, nothing else.

 

[gvox]

Gibson Girl, I'm not taking this seriously, at all. But I too will bite, always love a good debate, you know that You do from time to time join threads like these with this almost wistful mystical Bunnymen adulation that to me is a little over the top and not completely justified. The bottom line is, Echo did not make the music that would take them to the top of the world. Ever. Not even with Ocean Rain. So for all his pouting and highly delusional dreams of world domination, he failed. Matter of fact, his band mates were questioning him even as early as their second or third album. I think at one point in 82 or 83 they weren't even speaking to one another. That's not a 'brilliant band', it's a crew of spoiled musicians who can't seem to get it together. So in answer to your question as to whether there would be resentment, a true musician would pay respect to their musical peer. But no, we get Ian and his foolish rantings. Well guess what Ian, you never really resonated all that much with as many people as U2 did. Get over it. I was in grade 9 when the album which is regarded as their 'masterpiece' was released (Ocean Rain). Let me tell you where it factored on the 'alternative' radar amongst me and my alternative friends. Not at the top of most of our lists. It factored almost nowhere with my mainstream friends. U2 crossed both those groups of people and always came out on top. Then Echo tried to get a bit more popular and followed with Dancing Horses and Lips Like Sugar. Pffft. U2 comes up with Streets, WOWY, ISHFWILF, One Tree Hill, fuck, the entire JT album.

But let's forget about post 1984 Echo vs U2. I want you to watch the following footage, Rockpalast 1983 of both bands. I'll use two of Echo's better songs of that year, and one of U2's hits of that year and a completely obscure U2 tune, just to give Echo as much edge as possible.

YouTube - Echo & The Bunnymen - The Back Of Love (Rockpalast 1983)

YouTube - Echo & The Bunnymen - The Cutter (Rockpalast 1983)

YouTube - Gloria / New Years Day -- U2 -- Live 1983

YouTube - U2- An Cat Dubh (Live 1983 Rockpalast, Germany)

If there ever was a U2 vs Echo competition going on in Ian's mind, it was won by U2 long before Ocean Rain, 1987, Ian leaving/coming back, any of that, (of course, IMO! )


PS - about Larry - well I personally couldn't see a U2 without Larry, no way!

 

[GibsonGirl]

That Rockpalast performance was one of their worst. If you're going to post Bunnymen videos to prove U2's superiority, at least have the decency to post good ones.

YouTube - Echo and the bunnymen, over the wall
(1981)

YouTube - Echo & The Bunnymen - Crocodiles (Live Early 80s)
(1981)

YouTube - Echo and The Bunnymen - The Killing Moon
(1983 - early version)

YouTube - Echo and The Bunnymen - All My Colours (Zimbo)
(1983)

 

[gvox]

That wasn't really the purpose of me posting those videos. I was trying to use similar times (I'm assuming they'd be fairly similar/same geographic area) in the same year. It was to show that the entire U2 vs Echo thing is entirely a product of Ian's delusions (and, sad to say, I think the alleged drugs played a part). You are right, the videos you posted are far better performances - but they still are nowhere near better than U2's best, so for him to keep prattling on is really just plain crazy now. Echo performed very well for the audiences that liked them. I liked them, they were a great band growing up. The difference is, somehow U2 managed to rock a whole lot more people, ie the world. And I gotta tell you, even at his best, Ian never did/could outshine Bono in terms of an appealing frontman, even way back in 1981. Like I said, this entire rivarly is in his mind and his mind only, I still for the life of me can't understand why he can't just show mutual respect and admiration for a peer.

 

[GibsonGirl]

That wasn't really the purpose of me posting those videos. I was trying to use similar times (I'm assuming they'd be fairly similar/same geographic area) in the same year. It was to show that the entire U2 vs Echo thing is entirely a product of Ian's delusions (and, sad to say, I think the alleged drugs played a part). You are right, the videos you posted are far better performances - but they still are nowhere near better than U2's best, so for him to keep prattling on is really just plain crazy now. Echo performed very well for the audiences that liked them. I liked them, they were a great band growing up. The difference is, somehow U2 managed to rock a whole lot more people, ie the world. And I gotta tell you, even at his best, Ian never did/could outshine Bono in terms of an appealing frontman, even way back in 1981. Like I said, this entire rivarly is in his mind and his mind only, I still for the life of me can't understand why he can't just show mutual respect and admiration for a peer.

Forgive me -- I misunderstood your intentions.

Performance quality is subjective. For you, the best Bunnymen shows of the early 80s couldn't hold a candle to U2's; for me, they can, simply because their music probably appeals to me more than it does to you. But yes, I certainly agree that there was (and is) something about U2's music and live shows that could resonate with a wider audience than the Bunnymen's could. I do think, however, that Ian and co. were getting closer to achieving widespread appeal with Ocean Rain. No, I don't have the experience of actually being there (as you frequently point out to me ), but you can see it and hear it in the videos/bootlegs/interviews/etc. that are available from that time. As a big fan of the band, I think it's such a shame that things had to go the way they did. But yeah. Shit happens.

As for Ian's obsession with ripping Bono apart...yes, it would be nice if he could show a bit more respect. It's just the way he is, though. Mac wouldn't be Mac if he wasn't slagging someone off. He's like Liam Gallagher in that respect. I don't let it bother me. In fact, I find it amusing. He'd probably have a shitfit if he knew I had a photo of the Bunnymen next to a photo of U2 on the band shrine I have on one of my dorm walls.

 

[coolian2]

Intellectuals, out. This thread is for blind sniping only.

 

[financeguy]

These comments by McCulloch are racist and cross the line.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

the man is clearly insane!

 

[coolian2]

Much better. Carry on.

 

[gvox]

Performance quality is subjective. For you, the best Bunnymen shows of the early 80s couldn't hold a candle to U2's; for me, they can, simply because their music probably appeals to me more than it does to you. But yes, I certainly agree that there was (and is) something about U2's music and live shows that could resonate with a wider audience than the Bunnymen's could.

You know, it's weird, it's probably got alot to do with where one is in life in terms of age and whatnot - and btw, I should apologize if I'm sounding condescending when I bring up the age thing, I've probably beat that one to death by now lol. But it's funny...when I first heard U2, I was already a fan of the darker stuff the Joy Divisions, Echo, etc. When I first heard Echo, they did fit my little 'alternative persona' I had going on better than U2 did and for a short time I think I actually did listen to them more than U2 - and it was rather immature and faddish, looking back on it all. U2 sortof pulled me out of that morose despair type of music, I mean I still listened heavily to it..god I listened to alot of the most depressing music ever...lol...but U2 became almost this 'light at the end of the tunnel' type of thing for me and did a better job of it than did Echo for me. And of course, it became more mainstream and as I got older it became less and less important to be 'different' or 'cool' (which really meant, the polar opposite of everyone else's cool lol) and so I guess I gravitated more to that positive side that U2 brought, and I did think the songwriting was better. I'm probably not explaining this well or making alot of sense, and after all my memories are probably shaped somewhat by the fact that U2 outlasted them all to be my favorite (although New Order gave them a good run lol).

I do think that it's awesome that people (younger?) still listen to those first Echo albums and regard them highly. It was good stuff, to be sure.


PS - You mean you have a poster of Ian next to your U2 shrine?

 

[Yahweh]

Who cares what he says

Its always funny to laugh at though.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Who on gods green earth are Echo and the Bunnymen? what a disgracefully proposterous name for a band, and they call U2 "spud peelers"? They should look at their own name, sounds like an 80s version of a childrens band.

They couldn't hold a candle to U2, let alone insult a band far superior than them.

Pff, they're just jealous...

 

[Addicted To Bad]

Who on gods green earth are Echo and the Bunnymen? what a disgracefully proposterous name for a band, and they call U2 "spud peelers"? They should look at their own name, sounds like an 80s version of a childrens band.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

Who on gods green earth are Echo and the Bunnymen? what a disgracefully proposterous name for a band, and they call U2 "spud peelers"? They should look at their own name, sounds like an 80s version of a childrens band.

They couldn't hold a candle to U2, let alone insult a band far superior than them.

Pff, they're just jealous...

Google is your friend....

 

[Axver]

First you say this:

Who on gods green earth are Echo and the Bunnymen?

Then you say this:

They couldn't hold a candle to U2, let alone insult a band far superior than them.

Mmm, basing judgements on ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Maybe you should actually listen to their music before saying that U2 are far superior to them.

 

[Addicted To Bad]

Hmm... it´s simple: if U2 is considered one of the best rock bands in the world and Echo and the Bunnymen it´s necessary to check at Google for some people who loves music.... so...

 

[vaz02]

so true

 

[The Sad Punk]

Here's a selection of some of my favourite McCulloch quotes. I think you will all agree, that they are... quite a good read.

“You’ve got to hand it to Paul Weller. He’s come up with two of the worst names of all time. Three if you count ‘Paul Weller’ which is, let’s face it, a crap name for a singer.”

“Elvis Costello? Bloody terrible. Have you seen him on the telly? All fat and sweaty. Looks horrible. Can’t dance either.”

“What a twat Nick Cave was. I remember in the NME they used to have these ‘death lists’ and on the top of Cave’s was the Crucial Three. And I was at some festival in Holland, and he was there, and I thought ‘Come on, kill me’. But he never had a go. What a twat. I’d have concreted him. He’d be in the Hudson Bay now. You can tell him, if I’m still on his death list he can try it and I’ll soddin’ kill him. Twat. Australian, dingo-shagging turd. And he’s a fake, and he can’t sing. Fucking has-been junkie. He can’t even OD. But anyway… Nick babe, I fucking love you. You fucking Antipodean twat. Kangaroo is all he is. Delusions of syringe-dom.”

“Bono is penguining around the studio, wearing his big Orson Welles hat and these ridiculous Cuban heels. So then he sidles right up to me and says, 'It's great that we're both on the show. You know what it means? We're going to change the whole world. This is our mission, y'know.' And I'm thinking, 'See ya later, Fatso.' Not that he was fat exactly. But he was a squatty little turd. And I thought, 'What the hell's he going on about anyway? We've just got nothing at all to do with what he's doing.”

“Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat.”

"All you need to be successful these days is a Gibson Les Paul and a Marshall amp with some bloke wailing away about 'in excelsis Deo.' We don't need to condescend and wave flags around. Our music isn't meant to save anyone's soul: it's more meant to make their ears bleed."

"If I saw Bono walking down the street, I would just think he was one of the worst-dressed men I'd ever seen."

“I wouldn’t have thought any band could make it with a W.C. Fields lookalike for a singer. If Jim Morrison looked like Jim Kerr, he’d still be alive”

“We are the only important band.”

“I know John Lennon compared himself to Jesus, but that wasn’t quite the same as saying better.”

"The only inferiority complex I've got is about other people being inferior."

“I’m the son of God.”

“I am the king of rock and roll”


His wisdom will blow through time like a great eagle's feather in the northern wind.

 

[A stor]

These comments by McCulloch are racist and cross the line.

Thank you! And I agree.

"Spud peelers." Hmmmm....should we put this on the top of the list, which also includes Irish=drunks, "bad tempered, will fight at the drop of a hat" and "are the niggers of Europe."

Racism against the Irish, still exist, in the twenty first century.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Racism against all sorts of people still exists in the twenty-first century, and will continue to exist for a long time.

 

[Irishteen]

Who on gods green earth are Echo and the Bunnymen? what a disgracefully proposterous name for a band, and they call U2 "spud peelers"? They should look at their own name, sounds like an 80s version of a childrens band.

They couldn't hold a candle to U2, let alone insult a band far superior than them.

Pff, they're just jealous...

Insulting bands you don't know...that's a bit stupid don't you think? If you're gonna insult them at least go onto youtube and listen to some songs

Hmm... it´s simple: if U2 is considered one of the best rock bands in the world and Echo and the Bunnymen it´s necessary to check at Google for some people who loves music.... so...

You know some bands who are actually really good aren't well known? If you're gonna judge someone listen to their music and don't comment on how well know them are...


As for the comments; it's someone who is insanely jealous who makes slightly racist comments...I hope Bono's okay

 

[The Sad Punk]

John, as an Irishman, are you offended by that mean old Mac's comments?

 

[Irishteen]

John, as an Irishman, are you offended by that mean old Mac's comments?

I think he's being idiotic and racist but personally..meh leave the guy be who can blame him for being jealous?

 

[vaz02]

He wouldnt get away with calling a black person a cotton picker so why are we allowing him to get away with this ?

 

[Irishteen]

He wouldnt get away with calling a black person a cotton picker so why are we allowing him to get away with this ?

Because all we Irish do is peal spuds; obviously

 

[The Sad Punk]

He wouldnt get away with calling a black person a cotton picker so why are we allowing him to get away with this ?

Because two members of U2 aren't Irish.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

and none of them are black... duh

 

[david]

I remember a Nick Cave interview where he said Echo and the Bunnymen was one of the worst band names in history.

I totally disagree with Ian's comments on Nick Cave. Nick Cave is pure genius.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

Echo and the Bunnymen is a pretty stupid name in terms of branding...