Biggest Grossing Tours Of All Time

[Moggio]

If your only counting single shows, that might be the case, but not if your counting the full number of shows U2 played in the European markets in 2005. Again, she only did 17 shows, and many of these shows did not fully sellout. U2 did $155 million from 32 shows that each soldout the day they went on sale. Average attendance on the tour was over 62,000 per night.

Concerts may be listed as officially sold out. But that's not the real story. No concert is EVER technically sold out. Depending on how much you are willing to pay, you can almost always get tickets to any event you want to attend. Scalpers/brokers have access to many of the best seats and hence create an artificially elevated demand. Apart from exceptional seats, scalpers/brokers sell many tix that they bought weeks in advance but can't get rid of at around $30-$40 below face value prices (sometimes more) an hour or less before the show. I have saved over $500 in the past two and a half years doing this and have rarely paid face value prices (including opening night of The Police's 30th Anniversary tour), unless exceptional seats are available and are within my price range.

How many markets in North America has Madonna outgrossed U2?

Well, let's see...

Here are boxscores from the North American leg of Madonna's Confessions tour in 2006:


The Forum Los Angeles 40,044 / 40,044 (sellout) $7,686,380

MGM Grand Garden Las Vegas 27,528 / 27,528 (sellout) $7,257,750

HP Pavilion at San Jose San Jose 27,024 / 27,024 (sellout) $4,761,555

Staples Center Los Angeles 14,158 / 14,158 (sellout) $2,804,583

Save Mart Center Fresno 20,154 / 20,154 (sellout) $3,749,800

Glendale Arena Phoenix 28,820 / 28,820 (sellout) $4,890,090

United Center Chicago 52,000 / 52,000 (sellout) $9,271,790

Bell Centre Montreal 34,940 / 34,940 (sellout) $5,670,150

Hartford Civic Center Hartford 21,558 / 21,558 (sellout) $3,451,235

Madison Square Garden New York 91,841 / 91,841 (sellout) $16,507,855

TD Banknorth Garden Boston 36,741 / 36,741 (sellout) $6,337,115

Wachovia Center Philadelphia 29,749 / 29,749 (sellout) $4,639,775

Boardwalk Hall Atlantic City 12,322 / 12,322 (sellout) $3,246,100

American Airlines Arena Miami 30,410 / 30,410 (sellout) $5,568,485

 

[Moggio]

If that were the case, she would have one of the top tours, but she does not. Arthur Fogal who promotes both would be the first to say that U2 are the bigger concert draw.

She has several of the top tours. But it just so happens for the millionth time, that she only plays 50-60 shows per tour. Get it?

Attendance is a key factor in concert demand...

It has NOTHING to do with it.

It doesn't matter. Attendance can be adjusted based on what the ticket prices and venue capacity are set at, in relation to what the gross is. Example:

~ If market A's gross is $1 million and the average ticket price is $100, then 10,000 tickets will be sold
~ If market A's gross is $1 million and the average ticket price is $50, then 20,000 tickets will be sold
~ If market A's gross is $1 million and the average ticket price is $25, then 40,000 tickets will be sold
~ If market A's gross is $1 million and the average ticket price is $12.50, then 80,000 tickets will be sold

Etc., etc., etc.

That's how the public react to ticket prices. That's how it works.

Promoters already know what the GROSS is going to be before tickets go on sale, based on formulas relating to album sales. They're not going to risk spending or losing tens of thousands of dollars on production, booking fees, etc, if they aren't sure what GROSS for any given show is going to be. At the point in time a concert is on sale up 'til the actual concert, very few concerts, if any, are underbooked...

 

[Moggio]

If Madonna was the larger grossing act, she would be ahead of the Stones and U2 in the top grossing tours. She is not.

She doesn't play as many shows as they do for the MILLIONTH time. She does this for personal reasons. But in the markets she does hit, she outgrosses U2 & The Stones in the vast majority of them.

If you look at what U2 did on their last tour, and what Madonna just did on her recent tour in Europe, there is no comparison. 32 soldout shows on the day of sale, compared to 17 shows that did not completely sellout. The result, $117 million for Madonna, $155 million for U2. Also the U2 figure would be a little higher now when adjusted for inflation.

Sold out concerts don't really exist. There are always tickets available. I've gone over this several times now. If promoters want a particular show to look like a sell out, it will. Promoters know what the demand is going to be beforehand and they structure the venue capacity & ticket prices according to what the gross is going to be. That's why some concerts are $20 and some are $200.



Why do I have to keep going over all of this with you?

 

[mosquito]

Does anyone have the boxscores of the Michael jackson 1997 European tour?? It was really HUGE .

 

[genesis199125]

On top of that Michael Jackson question, does anyone have the figures for top concert tours in terms of attendance. If people have the top grossing concert tours and the average ticket prices, im sure there must be some list for attendance.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

She doesn't play as many shows as they do for the MILLIONTH time. She does this for personal reasons. But in the markets she does hit, she outgrosses U2 & The Stones in the vast majority of them.



Sold out concerts don't really exist. There are always tickets available. I've gone over this several times now. If promoters want a particular show to look like a sell out, it will. Promoters know what the demand is going to be beforehand and they structure the venue capacity & ticket prices according to what the gross is going to be. That's why some concerts are $20 and some are $200.



Why do I have to keep going over all of this with you?

If the artist plays less shows, they naturally increase the level of demand for the shows they do play.

Lets take Madonna's shows in the United Kingdom on the latest tour.

Millennium Stadium Cardiff 33,460 / 33,460 (100%) $5,279,107
Wembley Stadium London 73,349 / 73,349 (100%) $11,796,540

Now lets take a look at U2's shows from their last tour in the United Kingdom:

31, 32. Manchester, England : June 14-15, 2005 : City Of Manchester Stadium : GROSS $11,119,740 : ATTENDANCE 107,671 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

33, 34. London, England : June 18-19, 2005 : Twickenham Stadium : GROSS $13,677,410 : ATTENDANCE 110,796 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

35. Glasgow, Scotland : June 21, 2005 : Hampden Park : GROSS $5,819,053 : ATTENDANCE 53,395 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

39. Cardiff, Wales : June 29, 2005 : Millennium Stadium : GROSS $6,406,073 : ATTENDANCE 63,677 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1


The fact that Madonna was only able to attract 33,460 people to her show at Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, roughly half the capacity of the venue shows that with just two shows in the UK, she had already peaked.

On the other hand, U2 soldout all 6 of their shows to full capacity, typically within hours of going on sale. Its overwhelmingly clear that U2 is the bigger draw in the United Kingdom.



Scalpers buy tickets to all concerts, so the fact that you can buy tickets after a concert as soldout is irrelevant. The point is that all the tickets made available through regular legal distribution centers were sold regardless of who bought them.

Lets take a look at U2 and Madonna in Spain:

Madonnna
Circuito Ricardo Tormo Cheste Valencia 50,143 / 50,143 (100%) $4,941,980
Olympic Stadium Sevilla 47,712 / 59,258 (81.5%) $4,874,380

U2
57. Barcelona, Spain : August 7, 2005 : Camp Nou : GROSS $5,130,437 : ATTENDANCE 81,269 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

58. San Sebastian, Spain : August 9, 2005 : Estadio de Anoeta : GROSS $2,936,571 : ATTENDANCE 43,720 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

59. Madrid, Spain : August 11, 2005 : Estadio Vicente Calderon : GROSS $3,679,354 : ATTENDANCE 57,040 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

Each U2 concert is soldout, within hours of going on sale. Madonna's concert in Sevilla is on sale for WEEKS, but does not come anywhere near selling out. Madonna met demand in Spain for her, U2 failed to meet all the demand for them with just 3 shows.


Lets take a look at the Netherlands:

Madonna
Amsterdam Arena Amsterdam 50,588 / 50,588 (100%) $8,140,858


U2
45, 46, 47. Amsterdam, The Netherlands : July 13, 15-16, 2005 : Amsterdam Arena : GROSS $13,022,200 : ATTENDANCE 165,516 : SHOWS 3 : SELLOUTS 3

Here Madonna fails sellout a single night at the Amsterdam Arena.
U2 by contrast sellout 3 shows in just a few hours.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Well, let's see...

Here are boxscores from the North American leg of Madonna's Confessions tour in 2006:


The Forum Los Angeles 40,044 / 40,044 (sellout) $7,686,380

MGM Grand Garden Las Vegas 27,528 / 27,528 (sellout) $7,257,750

HP Pavilion at San Jose San Jose 27,024 / 27,024 (sellout) $4,761,555

Staples Center Los Angeles 14,158 / 14,158 (sellout) $2,804,583

Save Mart Center Fresno 20,154 / 20,154 (sellout) $3,749,800

Glendale Arena Phoenix 28,820 / 28,820 (sellout) $4,890,090

United Center Chicago 52,000 / 52,000 (sellout) $9,271,790

Bell Centre Montreal 34,940 / 34,940 (sellout) $5,670,150

Hartford Civic Center Hartford 21,558 / 21,558 (sellout) $3,451,235

Madison Square Garden New York 91,841 / 91,841 (sellout) $16,507,855

TD Banknorth Garden Boston 36,741 / 36,741 (sellout) $6,337,115

Wachovia Center Philadelphia 29,749 / 29,749 (sellout) $4,639,775

Boardwalk Hall Atlantic City 12,322 / 12,322 (sellout) $3,246,100

American Airlines Arena Miami 30,410 / 30,410 (sellout) $5,568,485

Well, here are U2's boxscore results from 2005 in North America:

1ST LEG of VERTIGO WORLD TOUR: NORTH AMERICA

1, 2. San Diego, California : March 28, 30, 2005 : ipayOne Center at the Sports Arena : GROSS $2,909,029 : ATTENDANCE 29,140 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

3, 4. Anaheim, California : April 1-2, 2005 : Arrowhead Pond : GROSS $3,454,198 : ATTENDANCE 33,535 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

5, 6. Los Angeles, California : April 5-6, 2005 : Staples Center : GROSS $3,673,850 : ATTENDANCE 34,527 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

7, 8. San Jose, California : April 9-10, 2005 : HP Pavillion : GROSS $3,357,098 : ATTENDANCE 36,140 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

9, 10. Glendale, Arizona : April 14-15, 2005 : Glendale Arena : GROSS $3,198,861 : ATTENDANCE 34,905 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

11, 12. Denver Colorado : April 20-21, 2005 : Pepsi Center : GROSS $3,509,741 : ATTENDANCE 36,714 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

13, 14. Seattle, Washington : April 24-25, 2005 : Key Arena : GROSS $3,105,574 : ATTENDANCE 30,251 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

15, 16. Vancouver, British Columbia : April 28-29, 2005 : General Motors Place : GROSS $3,020,466 : ATTENDANCE 37,031 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

17, 18, 19, 20. Chicago, Illinois : May 7-12, 2005 : United Center : GROSS $7,541,679 : ATTENDANCE 77,173 : SHOWS 4 : SELLOUTS 4

21, 25. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania : May 14-22, 2005 : Wachovia Center : GROSS $3,767,178 : ATTENDANCE 39,273 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

22, 23. East Rutherford, New Jersey : May 17-18, 2005 : Continental Airlines Arena : GROSS $3,838,066 : ATTENDANCE 40,347 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

24. New York, New York : May 21, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $1,907,086 : ATTENDANCE 18,415 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

26, 27, 28. Boston, Mass. : May 24, 26, 28, 2005 : FleetCenter : GROSS $5,071,565 : ATTENDANCE 51,658 : SHOWS 3 : SELLOUTS 3

1ST LEG of VERTIGO WORLD TOUR TOTALS

GROSS: $48,354,391
ATTENDANCE: 499,109
AVERAGE GROSS PER SHOW: $1,726,942.5
AVERAGE ATTENDANCE PER SHOW: 17,825
AVERAGE TICKET PRICE: $96.88
SHOWS: 28
SELLOUTS: 28



3RD LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR: NORTH AMERICA


61, 62, 63, 64. Toronto, Ontario : Sept. 12, 14, 16-17, 2005 : Air Canada Centre : GROSS $7,624,870 : ATTENDANCE 82,572 : SHOWS 4 : SELLOUTS 4

65, 66. Chicago, Illinois : Sept. 20-21, 2005 : United Center : GROSS $3,795,583 : ATTENDANCE 38,815 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

67. Minneapolis, Minn. : Sept. 23, 2005 : Target Center : GROSS $1,823,883 : ATTENDANCE 19,328 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

68. Milwaukee, Wis. : Sept. 25, 2005 : Bradley Center : GROSS $1,782,895 : ATTENDANCE 19,336 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

69, 70. Boston, Mass. : October 3-4, 2005 : TD Banknorth Garden : GROSS $3,381,429 : ATTENDANCE 34,488 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

71, 72, 73, 74, 75. New York, N.Y. : Oct. 7-8, 10-11, 14, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $9,658,009 : ATTENDANCE 93,275 : SHOWS 5 : SELLOUTS 5

76, 77. Philadelphia, PA : Oct. 16-17, 2005 : Wachovia Center : GROSS $3,773,053 : ATTENDANCE 39,305 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

78, 79. Washington, D.C. : Oct. 19-20, 2005 : MCI Center : GROSS $3,902,569 : ATTENDANCE 38,181 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

80. Pittsburgh, PA : Oct. 22, 2005 : Melon Arena : GROSS $1,636,798 : ATTENDANCE 16,899 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

81, 82. Auburn Hills, Mich. : Oct. 24-25, 2005 : Palace of Auburn Hills : GROSS $3,951,103 : ATTENDANCE 41,379 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

83. Houston, TX : Oct. 28, 2005 : Toyota Center : GROSS $1,652,699 : ATTENDANCE 17,002 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

84. Dallas, TX : Oct. 29, 2005 : American Airlines Center : GROSS $1,689,471 : ATTENDANCE 17,988 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

85, 86. Los Angeles, Calif. : Nov. 1-2, 2005 : Staples Center : GROSS $3,656,978 : ATTENDANCE 34,291 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

87, 88. Las Vegas, Nev. : Nov. 4-5, 2005 : MGM Grand Garden : GROSS $3,864,843 : ATTENDANCE 31,863 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

89, 90. Oakland, Calif. : Nov. 8-9, 2005 : Oakland Arena : GROSS $3,638,620 : ATTENDANCE 36,340 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

91, 92. Miami, Fla. : Nov. 13-14, 2005 : American Airlines Arena : GROSS $3,589,942 : ATTENDANCE 37,354 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

93. Tampa, Fla. : Nov. 16, 2005 : St. Pete Times Forum : GROSS $1,825,243 : ATTENDANCE 19,354 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

94, 95. Atlanta, Ga. : Nov. 18-19, 2005 : Philips Arena : GROSS $3,500,572 : ATTENDANCE 36,334 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

96, 97. New York, N.Y. : Nov. 21-22, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $3,859,828 : ATTENDANCE 37,314 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

98. Ottawa : Nov. 25, 2005 : Corel Centre : GROSS $1,486,710 : ATTENDANCE 18,647 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

99, 100. Montreal, Quebec : Nov. 26, 28, 2005 : Bell Centre : GROSS $3,575,491 : ATTENDANCE 43,294 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

101, 102. Boston, Mass. : Dec. 4-5, 2005 : TD Banknorth Garden : GROSS $3,400,861 : ATTENDANCE 34,583 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

103. Hartford, Conn. : Dec. 7, 2005 : Hartford Civic Center : GROSS $1,542,471 : ATTENDANCE 16,165 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

104. Buffalo, N.Y. : Dec. 9, 2005 : HSBC Arena : GROSS $1,711,094 : ATTENDANCE 18,826 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

105. Cleveland, Ohio : Dec. 10, 2005 : Quicken Loans Arena : GROSS $1,791,497 : ATTENDANCE 19,765 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

106. Charlotte, N.C. : Dec. 12, 2005 : Charlotte Bobcats Arena : GROSS $1,672,440 : ATTENDANCE 17,804 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

107. St. Louis, Mo. : Dec. 14, 2005 : Savvis Center : GROSS $1,839,020 : ATTENDANCE 19,923 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

108. Omaha, Nebraska : Dec. 15, 2005 : Qwest Center : GROSS $1,500,834 : ATTENDANCE 16,134 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

109. Salt Lake City, Utah : Dec. 17, 2005 : Delta Center : GROSS $1,709,317 : ATTENDANCE 18,197 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

110. Portland, Ore. : Dec. 19, 2005 : Rose Garden : GROSS $1,670,879 : ATTENDANCE 18,233 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1






3RD LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR TOTALS TO DATE

GROSS: $90,509,002
ATTENDANCE: 936,975
AVERAGE GROSS PER SHOW: $1,810,180
AVERAGE ATTENDANCE PER SHOW: 18,740
AVERAGE TICKET PRICE: $97.01
SHOWS: 50
SELLOUTS: 50





As anyone can see, there is simply no comparison. U2 are way ahead in both gross and attendance in North America.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

She doesn't play as many shows as they do for the MILLIONTH time. She does this for personal reasons. But in the markets she does hit, she outgrosses U2 & The Stones in the vast majority of them.

Do you realize on her current tour in North America, that there are still $55 dollar tickets available for her only show in the Los Angeles area? Same with shows in Detroit, Miami, and San Diego.

There are still $98 dollar tickets available for her second shows in the San Francisco and Chicago markets. The San Francisco and Chicago markets are arena shows with seats not being sold behind the stage!

U2 soldout multiple shows in these markets using all the seats behind the stage. 6 in Chicago and 4 in the San Francisco area. But Madonna has peaked out at only two shows in each market, and these are not even soldout.

This comparison to U2 has turned into a complete JOKE!

 

[Yahweh]

Because U2 probably would like to keep ticket prices affordable and not charge exorbonant amounts that some of their fanbase couldnt afford. Madonna is called The Material Girl for a reason because she really doesnt care what price is being charged. U2does care about the prices and thats why they put the best prices in the GA area.

If U2 played 60 shows on a tour they could charge 500 dollars or more a seat and they would sell out. That does not mean people would be happy about it though.

 

[Moggio]

If the artist plays less shows, they naturally increase the level of demand for the shows they do play.

In general, yes. But not in this case. For example, in 2006, Madonna also played Hartford, Boston, Philadelphia & Atlantic City on the northeastern seaboard. Therefore, for ANYONE to say that a large portion of her NYC metro area gross derived from these markets since they already had their own shows, apart from the NYC metro area, has to be either joking or in denial.

Lets take Madonna's shows in the United Kingdom on the latest tour.

Millennium Stadium Cardiff 33,460 / 33,460 (100%) $5,279,107
Wembley Stadium London 73,349 / 73,349 (100%) $11,796,540

Now lets take a look at U2's shows from their last tour in the United Kingdom:

31, 32. Manchester, England : June 14-15, 2005 : City Of Manchester Stadium : GROSS $11,119,740 : ATTENDANCE 107,671 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

33, 34. London, England : June 18-19, 2005 : Twickenham Stadium : GROSS $13,677,410 : ATTENDANCE 110,796 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

35. Glasgow, Scotland : June 21, 2005 : Hampden Park : GROSS $5,819,053 : ATTENDANCE 53,395 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

39. Cardiff, Wales : June 29, 2005 : Millennium Stadium : GROSS $6,406,073 : ATTENDANCE 63,677 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1


The fact that Madonna was only able to attract 33,460 people to her show at Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, roughly half the capacity of the venue shows that with just two shows in the UK, she had already peaked.

On the other hand, U2 soldout all 6 of their shows to full capacity, typically within hours of going on sale. Its overwhelmingly clear that U2 is the bigger draw in the United Kingdom.

The above markets are some of the FEW markets that U2 can outgross Madonna in. Let's not forget that. And the reason why Madonna only half-filled her show in Cardiff is because her AVERAGE PRICE WAS HIGHER THAN U2'S BY 56%. If Madonna had U2's average price for the Cardiff show, her attendance there would be roughly 52,000.

Scalpers buy tickets to all concerts, so the fact that you can buy tickets after a concert as soldout is irrelevant.

Once again, concerts are NEVER sold out.

The point is that all the tickets made available through regular legal distribution centers were sold regardless of who bought them.

Wrong.

Lets take a look at U2 and Madonna in Spain:

Madonnna
Circuito Ricardo Tormo Cheste Valencia 50,143 / 50,143 (100%) $4,941,980
Olympic Stadium Sevilla 47,712 / 59,258 (81.5%) $4,874,380

U2
57. Barcelona, Spain : August 7, 2005 : Camp Nou : GROSS $5,130,437 : ATTENDANCE 81,269 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

58. San Sebastian, Spain : August 9, 2005 : Estadio de Anoeta : GROSS $2,936,571 : ATTENDANCE 43,720 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

59. Madrid, Spain : August 11, 2005 : Estadio Vicente Calderon : GROSS $3,679,354 : ATTENDANCE 57,040 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

Each U2 concert is soldout, within hours of going on sale. Madonna's concert in Sevilla is on sale for WEEKS, but does not come anywhere near selling out. Madonna met demand in Spain for her, U2 failed to meet all the demand for them with just 3 shows.

For the third time, NO concert is EVER sold out. Promoters know what demand is going to be based on the factors I've already gone over a million times now. And if they want a show to look like it's sold out, it will. And if Madonna performed more shows per tour, things would obviously be different. Just because one show in one country isn't full, doesn't necessarily mean demand has been met for that entire country.

Lets take a look at the Netherlands:

Madonna
Amsterdam Arena Amsterdam 50,588 / 50,588 (100%) $8,140,858


U2
45, 46, 47. Amsterdam, The Netherlands : July 13, 15-16, 2005 : Amsterdam Arena : GROSS $13,022,200 : ATTENDANCE 165,516 : SHOWS 3 : SELLOUTS 3

Here Madonna fails sellout a single night at the Amsterdam Arena.
U2 by contrast sellout 3 shows in just a few hours.

Again, NO concert is EVER sold out. But this is another one of the FEW markets Madonna cannot outgross U2 in.

 

[Moggio]

As anyone can see, there is simply no comparison. U2 are way ahead in both gross and attendance in North America.

What are you talking about?

Anyone can see that in EVERY SINGLE NORTH AMERICAN MARKET presented above that both U2 & Madonna have performed in, Madonna outgrossed U2.

You must be joking, right?

 

[Moggio]

Do you realize on her current tour in North America, that there are still $55 dollar tickets available for her only show in the Los Angeles area? Same with shows in Detroit, Miami, and San Diego.

There are still $98 dollar tickets available for her second shows in the San Francisco and Chicago markets. The San Francisco and Chicago markets are arena shows with seats not being sold behind the stage!

There are still $98 dollar tickets available for her second shows in the San Francisco and Chicago markets. The San Francisco and Chicago markets are arena shows with seats not being sold behind the stage!

U2 soldout multiple shows in these markets using all the seats behind the stage. 6 in Chicago and 4 in the San Francisco area. But Madonna has peaked out at only two shows in each market, and these are not even soldout.

Why do you keep going on about attendance and supposedly sold out shows? Don't you realize that that doesn't mean a thing?

Madonna's ticket prices are higher than U2's and she outgrosses U2 in these markets. That means she's the larger draw. Period. Why is that so hard to understand?

I have access to the weekly boxscore listings (there's usually 300-400 per week). And when Madonna's new North American tour boxscores are released in the next few weeks, her grosses will probably be 10-15% higher than her shows in these same markets in 2006. I'll post them here when I get them...

This comparison to U2 has turned into a complete JOKE!

You've got that right!

 

[Moggio]

Because U2 probably would like to keep ticket prices affordable and not charge exorbonant amounts that some of their fanbase couldnt afford. Madonna is called The Material Girl for a reason because she really doesnt care what price is being charged. U2does care about the prices and thats why they put the best prices in the GA area.

U2's ticket prices will basically be $55/$120/$200 next year. GA only makes up about 10% of the arena floor capacity. So, I don't see how U2 is being generous?

If U2 played 60 shows on a tour they could charge 500 dollars or more a seat and they would sell out.

Not necessarily. It depends on which market, venue capacity and ticket price you're talking about...

 

[Moggio]

Does anyone have the boxscores of the Michael jackson 1997 European tour?? It was really HUGE .

Michael Jackson's 1996-1997 History tour played to 4.5 million fans and grossed $163,516,755, from 82 shows. Notably, this tour did not hit North America.

The 1984 Victory tour played to 2 million fans and grossed $75 million, from 55 shows. The 1987-1989 Bad tour played to 4.4 million fans and grossed $125 million, from 123 shows. And his 1993 Dangerous tour played to 3.5 million fans, from 69 shows...

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

The above markets are some of the FEW markets that U2 can outgross Madonna in. Let's not forget that. And the reason why Madonna only half-filled her show in Cardiff is because her AVERAGE PRICE WAS HIGHER THAN U2'S BY 56%. If Madonna had U2's average price for the Cardiff show, her attendance there would be roughly 52,000.

She only had two shows in the United Kingdom. If the demand was really there, she should have been able to sellout the Cardiff show. Besides the London show, it was the only other show in the United Kingdom. In addition, to that, there was not a single show in Ireland.

For the third time, NO concert is EVER sold out. Promoters know what demand is going to be based on the factors I've already gone over a million times now. And if they want a show to look like it's sold out, it will. And if Madonna performed more shows per tour, things would obviously be different. Just because one show in one country isn't full, doesn't necessarily mean demand has been met for that entire country.

In terms of the industry, there is such a thing as a sellout. Sorry, but being able to buy a ticket from someone who already purchased the ticket is not evidence of a show not being soldout.

In a country, like Spain, the Netherlands, when you don't sellout a single show and are only doing one or two shows, that is evidence that demand in the country has been met or is close to being met. These are small countries with excellent public transportation. A larger country might be a different matter, but not in these cases.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Why do you keep going on about attendance and supposedly sold out shows? Don't you realize that that doesn't mean a thing?

Madonna's ticket prices are higher than U2's and she outgrosses U2 in these markets. That means she's the larger draw. Period. Why is that so hard to understand?

I have access to the weekly boxscore listings (there's usually 300-400 per week). And when Madonna's new North American tour boxscores are released in the next few weeks, her grosses will probably be 10-15% higher than her shows in these same markets in 2006. I'll post them here when I get them...






You've got that right!

Look mr. ANTI-U2 TROLL, Madonna has multiple arena shows that are currently NOT soldout in places like Chicago and San Francisco area. Were not talking the expensive tickets, were talking the low priced tickets like the $98 dollar tickets. U2 soldout all of its tickets in that price range back in 2005 in minutes. They played 6 soldout shows in Chicago and 4 in San Francisco.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

What are you talking about?

Anyone can see that in EVERY SINGLE NORTH AMERICAN MARKET presented above that both U2 & Madonna have performed in, Madonna outgrossed U2.

You must be joking, right?

Since the Anti-U2 TROLL cannot see, I will help him with an example.

Lets take the New York City market, U2's 2005 results vs. Madonna's 2006 results:


U2 in 2005

22, 23. East Rutherford, New Jersey : May 17-18, 2005 : Continental Airlines Arena : GROSS $3,838,066 : ATTENDANCE 40,347 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

24. New York, New York : May 21, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $1,907,086 : ATTENDANCE 18,415 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

71, 72, 73, 74, 75. New York, N.Y. : Oct. 7-8, 10-11, 14, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $9,658,009 : ATTENDANCE 93,275 : SHOWS 5 : SELLOUTS 5

96, 97. New York, N.Y. : Nov. 21-22, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $3,859,828 : ATTENDANCE 37,314 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2


U2's total GROSS and ATTENDANCE in New York City area in 2005:
GROSS: $19,262,989
Attendance: 189,351

In addition, all shows soldout within hours of going on sale.

Madonna total Gross and Attendance from her 6 shows in New York city area in 2006:
GROSS: $16,507,855
Attendance: 91,841


As you can see, more people saw U2 in 2005 than saw Madonna in 2006 in New York City area, and U2 grossed more in the New York City area in 2005 than Madonna did in 2006.

By every measure of the industry. U2 is the larger draw. Even the tour company that promotes both U2 and Madonna, Live Nation, would agree that U2 is the larger drawing artist. Arthur Fogal and Michael Cohl would both agree that U2 is the largest drawing artist. Michael Cohl stated in 1997 during the POPMART tour that the only artist that could do more business than U2 on the road was the Rolling Stones.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Madonna's ticket prices are higher than U2's and she outgrosses U2 in these markets. That means she's the larger draw. Period. Why is that so hard to understand?

!

Madonna has two shows in Chicago right now. One of them is not soldout and still has tickets remaining in the $98 dollar price level. Both shows do not have seating behind the stage.

When U2 plays Chicago in 2009, do you really think if they only played TWO ARENA SHOWS in Chicago that there would still be tickets in the $98 dollar range on sale months after the first day of sale?

U2 could sellout two stadium shows in Chicago, yet Madonna cannot even sellout two arena shows in this market.

NINTY-EIGHT DOLLAR TICKETS ARE STILL ON SALE for MADONNA in Chicago and she only has two shows there in Arena's. Were talking a max capacity of 30,000 people for two shows given that she is not selling seats behind the stage. Yet, there are still $98 dollar tickets available. Chicago, the THIRD LARGEST CITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

 

[Moggio]

She only had two shows in the United Kingdom. If the demand was really there, she should have been able to sellout the Cardiff show. Besides the London show, it was the only other show in the United Kingdom. In addition, to that, there was not a single show in Ireland.

I think you're also forgetting that Madonna tours quite frequently nowadays. She's on the road every other year. So, she's not going to play all the same markets on each tour.

In terms of the industry, there is such a thing as a sellout.

Nope.

Sorry, but being able to buy a ticket from someone who already purchased the ticket is not evidence of a show not being soldout.

I didn't say that was the only reason.

In a country, like Spain, the Netherlands, when you don't sellout a single show and are only doing one or two shows, that is evidence that demand in the country has been met or is close to being met. These are small countries with excellent public transportation. A larger country might be a different matter, but not in these cases.

Well, actually, one of her two Spanish shows were "listed" as sold out, as was her show in the Netherlands this year. But again, attendance is not the judge of concert demand, since it can be adjusted based on what the ticket prices and venue capacities are set at, in relation to what ...the GROSS is.

Btw, Spain & The Netherlands are not small countries.

 

[Moggio]

Look mr. ANTI-U2 TROLL, Madonna has multiple arena shows that are currently NOT soldout in places like Chicago and San Francisco area. Were not talking the expensive tickets, were talking the low priced tickets like the $98 dollar tickets.

Look, "Mr. I can't admit that Madonna is a larger draw than U2 overall"...it doesn't matter whether or not the shows were "listed" as sold out. Madonna GROSSES more and has HIGHER ticket prices than U2 in most markets both have played in. That means she's the larger draw. Period.

U2 soldout all of its tickets in that price range back in 2005 in minutes. They played 6 soldout shows in Chicago and 4 in San Francisco.

No, they didn't. Tickets are ALWAYS available.

 

[Moggio]

Since the Anti-U2 TROLL cannot see, I will help him with an example.

Lets take the New York City market, U2's 2005 results vs. Madonna's 2006 results:


U2 in 2005

22, 23. East Rutherford, New Jersey : May 17-18, 2005 : Continental Airlines Arena : GROSS $3,838,066 : ATTENDANCE 40,347 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

24. New York, New York : May 21, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $1,907,086 : ATTENDANCE 18,415 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

71, 72, 73, 74, 75. New York, N.Y. : Oct. 7-8, 10-11, 14, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $9,658,009 : ATTENDANCE 93,275 : SHOWS 5 : SELLOUTS 5

96, 97. New York, N.Y. : Nov. 21-22, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $3,859,828 : ATTENDANCE 37,314 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2


U2's total GROSS and ATTENDANCE in New York City area in 2005:
GROSS: $19,262,989
Attendance: 189,351

In addition, all shows soldout within hours of going on sale.

Madonna total Gross and Attendance from her 6 shows in New York city area in 2006:
GROSS: $16,507,855
Attendance: 91,841


As you can see, more people saw U2 in 2005 than saw Madonna in 2006 in New York City area, and U2 grossed more in the New York City area in 2005 than Madonna did in 2006.

That's not true because many of the shows in the fall of 2005 for U2 were return engagements, where a certain percentage of the same fans came back to see them again. And in this case, U2's NYC metro area gross for this particular tour WITHOUT return engagements, was around $14 million.

By every measure of the industry. U2 is the larger draw. Even the tour company that promotes both U2 and Madonna, Live Nation, would agree that U2 is the larger drawing artist. Arthur Fogal and Michael Cohl would both agree that U2 is the largest drawing artist. Michael Cohl stated in 1997 during the POPMART tour that the only artist that could do more business than U2 on the road was the Rolling Stones.

Cohl said that 11 years ago. Demand changes. And he was referring to active touring artists. At that point in time, Madonna hadn't toured in 4 years...and didn't tour for another 4 years after that...

 

[Moggio]

Madonna has two shows in Chicago right now. One of them is not soldout and still has tickets remaining in the $98 dollar price level. Both shows do not have seating behind the stage.

When U2 plays Chicago in 2009, do you really think if they only played TWO ARENA SHOWS in Chicago that there would still be tickets in the $98 dollar range on sale months after the first day of sale?

U2 could sellout two stadium shows in Chicago, yet Madonna cannot even sellout two arena shows in this market.

NINTY-EIGHT DOLLAR TICKETS ARE STILL ON SALE for MADONNA in Chicago and she only has two shows there in Arena's. Were talking a max capacity of 30,000 people for two shows given that she is not selling seats behind the stage. Yet, there are still $98 dollar tickets available. Chicago, the THIRD LARGEST CITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

Ok, GROSS is what is judged when judging concert demand, NOT attendance. Why is that so hard to understand?

Madonna grossed nearly $9.3 million in Chicago in 2006. This year that gross will probably be closer to $11 million once her boxscores are released from this leg of her Sticky & Sweet tour. Whereas, WITHOUT return engagements considered, U2 grossed about $8 million in Chicago in 2005. And next year, if there are no returns in Chicago (there probably will be), then U2 will probably gross nearly $10 million...

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

I think you're also forgetting that Madonna tours quite frequently nowadays. She's on the road every other year. So, she's not going to play all the same markets on each tour.

In fact, some of her recent strong grosses and sales in certain markets is because of the fact she has not played that certain market in 15 or 20 years, or in fact has never played the market before. She played Ireland a few years back, but failed to sellout her only show ever in Ireland. Yeah, but she is one of the top drawing artist in the world?!?!?


When your unable to buy tickets from ticketmaster for a concert, the concert is soldout. Sometimes more tickets may be released later. For all of U2's Chicago and San Francisco shows, they initially soldout all the seats made available within hours. People attempted to buy tickets after a couple of hours and were turned away.

In contrast, tickets have been available EVERY DAY for Madonna's shows in Chicago and the San Francisco area this year.

Well, actually, one of her two Spanish shows were "listed" as sold out, as was her show in the Netherlands this year.

The Amsterdam Arena can hold 55,000 , and the capacity for her show only when up to 50,000. Tickets were available all the way up to show time. With U2, all three concerts were soldout the day they were put on sale, 55,000 per show.

But again, attendance is not the judge of concert demand, since it can be adjusted based on what the ticket prices and venue capacities are set at, in relation to what ...the GROSS is.

Attendance is an indicator that can show whether demand was close to being met or not. When a concert sellsout in on hour, clearly, demand is still available for more tickets. When a concert sells out just before the start of the show, or not at all, one can confidently say that demand was met in that market or nearly met.

Btw, Spain & The Netherlands are not small countries

In terms of physical land area, they are indeed small. Netherlands is half the size of Ireland. Any concert that occurs within the Netherlands is in close proximity to the entire population of the country. The fact that Madonna could not sellout the entire 55,000 seat Amsterdam Arena is very revealing.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Look, "Mr. I can't admit that Madonna is a larger draw than U2 overall"...it doesn't matter whether or not the shows were "listed" as sold out. Madonna GROSSES more and has HIGHER ticket prices than U2 in most markets both have played in. That means she's the larger draw. Period.



No, they didn't. Tickets are ALWAYS available.

Well then how come you could not purchase tickets from ticketmaster two hours after U2's shows in Chicago went on sale? Perhaps tickets are always available in your little fantasy world, but in the real world, the main ticket distributer has a finite amount of tickets available that does run out if enough people come in purchase tickets.

You have not been able to name a single market in North America where if you add up the grosses, Madonna has grossed more than U2.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

That's not true because many of the shows in the fall of 2005 for U2 were return engagements, where a certain percentage of the same fans came back to see them again. And in this case, U2's NYC metro area gross for this particular tour WITHOUT return engagements, was around $14 million.



Cohl said that 11 years ago. Demand changes. And he was referring to active touring artists. At that point in time, Madonna hadn't toured in 4 years...and didn't tour for another 4 years after that...

What you don't understand is that the fall portion of the tour went on sale in March, just one month after the Spring portion of tour had gone sale, and well before the actual start of the tour in the Spring. You might be able to make some sort of limited argument along those lines if the tickets had gone on sale AFTER the band had played the show in that particular area, but that was not the case. The on sale dates for all these shows were very close together and soldout before a single show on the tour was even played.

Instead of playing games, look at the math. Then also considered that U2 did not fully meet demand in the New York City Market.

Madonna was not considered to be inactive then and was not as popular as U2 was on her earlier tours either. Even though 1997 was a low point for U2, Cohl admitted the fact that they were still stronger on the road than anyone else in the industry with the exception of the Rolling Stones. Thats an undeniable fact. You can't find a single major tour industry figure who would agree with your absurd claim that Madonna is a bigger drawing artist than U2.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Madonna grossed nearly $9.3 million in Chicago in 2006. This year that gross will probably be closer to $11 million once her boxscores are released from this leg of her Sticky & Sweet tour. Whereas, WITHOUT return engagements considered, U2 grossed about $8 million in Chicago in 2005. And next year, if there are no returns in Chicago (there probably will be), then U2 will probably gross nearly $10 million...

Here's a little NEWSFLASH for ya: You know how Madonna got to nearly 9.3 million in Chicago on the confessions tour? She played 4 SHOWS!

You know how many shows she is playing in Chicago on the Sticky And Sweet Tour? TWO.

So, according to you, Madonna is going to gross $5.5 million dollars for Each of her Chicago shows on Sticky And Sweet Tour!!! You said $11 million dollar gross!

Essentially, Madonna's average gross for each of her Chicago shows will have to be 2.5 times the gross she made per show on the Confessions tour in order to hit the $11 million mark in Chicago that you claim she will be able to do.

I think its time for you to cut your losses and admit your up the creek without a paddle.

 

[Moggio]

In fact, some of her recent strong grosses and sales in certain markets is because of the fact she has not played that certain market in 15 or 20 years, or in fact has never played the market before.

So what? Madonna GROSSES more than U2 in most markets worldwide that they have both played in. Period.

She played Ireland a few years back, but failed to sellout her only show ever in Ireland. Yeah, but she is one of the top drawing artist in the world?!?!?

Yes.

Ireland is only one small country. I can't believe you're using that as an example.

When your unable to buy tickets from ticketmaster for a concert, the concert is soldout. Sometimes more tickets may be released later. For all of U2's Chicago and San Francisco shows, they initially soldout all the seats made available within hours. People attempted to buy tickets after a couple of hours and were turned away.

Promoters hold back the best seats in the house for scalpers/brokers, VIPs, etc. ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about the concert business knows that. It's a well-known fact.

In contrast, tickets have been available EVERY DAY for Madonna's shows in Chicago and the San Francisco area this year.

That's because her ticket prices are HIGHER. Which essentially means, that the shows will take longer to fill up.

The Amsterdam Arena can hold 55,000 , and the capacity for her show only when up to 50,000. Tickets were available all the way up to show time.

I know that.

With U2, all three concerts were soldout the day they were put on sale, 55,000 per show.

No, they weren't. For reasons already stated.

Attendance is an indicator that can show whether demand was close to being met or not.

No. The GROSS is. For the ONE MILLIONTH TIME.

When a concert sellsout in on hour, clearly, demand is still available for more tickets. When a concert sells out just before the start of the show, or not at all, one can confidently say that demand was met in that market or nearly met.

No concert is EVER sold out. And attendance can be adjusted. For reasons already stated.

In terms of physical land area, they are indeed small. Netherlands is half the size of Ireland.

I wasn't talking about land mass. I was talking about population.

Any concert that occurs within the Netherlands is in close proximity to the entire population of the country. The fact that Madonna could not sellout the entire 55,000 seat Amsterdam Arena is very revealing.

She still grossed over $8.1 million there. She's hugely popular in that country.

 

[Moggio]

Well then how come you could not purchase tickets from ticketmaster two hours after U2's shows in Chicago went on sale? Perhaps tickets are always available in your little fantasy world, but in the real world, the main ticket distributer has a finite amount of tickets available that does run out if enough people come in purchase tickets.

Promoters hold back the best seats in the house for scalpers/brokers, VIPs, etc. Don't you know ANYTHING about the concert business?

You have not been able to name a single market in North America where if you add up the grosses, Madonna has grossed more than U2.

The Forum Los Angeles 40,044 / 40,044 (sellout) $7,686,380

MGM Grand Garden Las Vegas 27,528 / 27,528 (sellout) $7,257,750

HP Pavilion at San Jose San Jose 27,024 / 27,024 (sellout) $4,761,555

Staples Center Los Angeles 14,158 / 14,158 (sellout) $2,804,583

Save Mart Center Fresno 20,154 / 20,154 (sellout) $3,749,800

Glendale Arena Phoenix 28,820 / 28,820 (sellout) $4,890,090

United Center Chicago 52,000 / 52,000 (sellout) $9,271,790

Bell Centre Montreal 34,940 / 34,940 (sellout) $5,670,150

Hartford Civic Center Hartford 21,558 / 21,558 (sellout) $3,451,235

Madison Square Garden New York 91,841 / 91,841 (sellout) $16,507,855

TD Banknorth Garden Boston 36,741 / 36,741 (sellout) $6,337,115

Wachovia Center Philadelphia 29,749 / 29,749 (sellout) $4,639,775

Boardwalk Hall Atlantic City 12,322 / 12,322 (sellout) $3,246,100

American Airlines Arena Miami 30,410 / 30,410 (sellout) $5,568,485



------------------------------------------------------



You have to be joking?!

 

[Moggio]

What you don't understand is that the fall portion of the tour went on sale in March, just one month after the Spring portion of tour had gone sale, and well before the actual start of the tour in the Spring. You might be able to make some sort of limited argument along those lines if the tickets had gone on sale AFTER the band had played the show in that particular area, but that was not the case. The on sale dates for all these shows were very close together and soldout before a single show on the tour was even played.

What you don't understand is that a certain percentage of fans return to see artists, if they return to their market months later on the same tour. It doesn't really matter when tickets go on sale in this case, as long as it was after the initial show's on sale dates...

Instead of playing games, look at the math.

Funny, I was just going to say the same thing to you.

Then also considered that U2 did not fully meet demand in the New York City Market.

At the point in time their NYC metro area shows happened, they met demand.

Madonna was not considered to be inactive then...

Yes, she was. Not touring for seven years is considered inactive.

...and was not as popular as U2 was on her earlier tours either.

That's actually true, overall. But in Australia she played THREE STADIUM SHOWS in each Melbourne & Sydney in 1993.

Even though 1997 was a low point for U2, Cohl admitted the fact that they were still stronger on the road than anyone else in the industry with the exception of the Rolling Stones. Thats an undeniable fact.

That's not what he said.

You can't find a single major tour industry figure who would agree with your absurd claim that Madonna is a bigger drawing artist than U2.

The stats speak for themselves.

 

[Moggio]

Here's a little NEWSFLASH for ya: You know how Madonna got to nearly 9.3 million in Chicago on the confessions tour? She played 4 SHOWS!

You know how many shows she is playing in Chicago on the Sticky And Sweet Tour? TWO.

So, according to you, Madonna is going to gross $5.5 million dollars for Each of her Chicago shows on Sticky And Sweet Tour!!! You said $11 million dollar gross!

I said PROBABLY an $11 million gross.

Essentially, Madonna's average gross for each of her Chicago shows will have to be 2.5 times the gross she made per show on the Confessions tour in order to hit the $11 million mark in Chicago that you claim she will be able to do.

So what? You're forgetting that Madonna's Chicago show prices are between $55-$575 this year. She'll probably still gross in the ballpark of $10-$11 million once the boxscores are released. And that's what counts.

I think its time for you to cut your losses and admit your up the creek without a paddle.

You know, if you enrolled in a school of concert demand, you'd fail Grade 1. Simply because you don't even understand that attendance can be adjusted, based on what the venue capacities & ticket prices are set at, in relation to what the GROSS is.

Bravo!