Star Wars Episode VIII: A New Thread

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The Last Jedi was fucking awful. It made the prequels look like well thought out and exciting movies.

The movie featured crazy uncle Luke milking a space seal, Princess Leia doing a Mary Poppins space walk, a “space battle”that was entirely about there not being a galactic gas station nearby, and an entirely pointless story arc in a poorly rendered CGI casino and an even more abysmal CGI space horse chase.

Good lord this movie was truly awful. An absolute low point for the franchise. Yes, below the Holiday Special.:doh::down::doh:
 
The Return of the Jedi was fucking awful. The first two were so much more well thought out and exciting movies.

The movie featured Boba Fett being eaten by a vagina puppet, a "land battle" that was entirely stormtroopers getting their asses beat by talking teddy bears, a dance sequence with a bunch of shitty puppets playing cheesy music and Harrison Ford mailing in his worst performance. This movie was so bad, it killed Yoda.

Good lord this movie was truly awful. An absolute low point for the franchise. Yes, below the Holiday Special. :doh::down::doh:
 
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The only thing the Last Jedi did to make the prequels look good is actually reconcile the notion that the Jedi kind of were shit. Episodes 4-7 had such reverence for the Jedi that did not mesh with the established history from the prequels.

The Last Jedi was very good.
 
LemonMelon said:
The Return of the Jedi was fucking awful. The first two were so much more well thought out and exciting movies.

The movie featured Boba Fett being eaten by a vagina puppet, a "land battle" that was entirely stormtroopers getting their asses beat by talking teddy bears, a dance sequence with a bunch of shitty puppets playing cheesy music and Harrison Ford mailing in his worst performance. This movie was so bad, it killed Yoda.

Good lord this movie was truly awful. An absolute low point for the franchise. Yes, below the Holiday Special. :doh::down::doh:
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Where is the lie?
 
PhilsFan said:
The only thing the Last Jedi did to make the prequels look good is actually reconcile the notion that the Jedi kind of were shit. Episodes 4-7 had such reverence for the Jedi that did not mesh with the established history from the prequels.
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Certainly agree here.
 
This is a fluent summing up of one of my complaints with TLJ, especially the contrasting personal and political levels mentioned upthread:

I understand why, as novelist John Scalzi wrote with regard to “The Last Jedi,” some viewers regard “Star Wars” as “mythology, i.e., stories presented through such a deep filter of time and oral tradition that to expect logic is almost aside the point.”

But it’s not quite true, as Scalzi suggests, that “You don’t expect logic from ‘Star Wars’ any more than you expect it out of, say, ‘Jason and the Argonauts.’ ” Part of what makes an epic like the “Iliad” continually compelling both as a specific story and as an enduring form that other artists use as the basis for their own stories is the stuff that happens in between the big battles and that make it clear why a conflict unfolds, and ultimately ends, the way it does. You have to understand why the Trojans would accept the mysterious gift of a big wooden horse, even if it means a little divine intervention to tip the scales on their decision-making.

You might not have seen every creature in the galaxy in the original “Star Wars” trilogy, but you could see in Princess Leia’s networks, the effects of Imperial repression on individuals, and even in the Ewoks’ asymmetrical warfare how and why the Empire might eventually fall. The strength of “The Last Jedi” is that it manages to make the personal journeys of Rey, Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker feel as hugely consequential as the galaxy itself. Its fatal flaw is in lacking the thought or ambition to give that same thought to the galaxy itself.
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mobvok said:
This is a fluent summing up of one of my complaints with TLJ, especially the contrasting personal and political levels mentioned upthread:
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This is a really good review. Along somewhat similar lines: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-19/-the-last-jedi-is-good-it-just-isn-t-magical

At its heart, Lucas’s tale is about fathers and sons, and about how much they need each other. Luke believes -- whatever the objective evidence -- that his father has good in him. (Doesn’t every son believe that?) Vader gives his life to save his son. (Wouldn’t every father do that?)


Having studied the topic with care, Lucas is also insightful (and enduringly relevant, above all in the much-maligned prequels) about how democracy falls and how authoritarianism rises. He captures the populist allure of the all-powerful leader. As one of his characters puts it, “So this is how liberty dies ... with thunderous applause.”

Anakin Skywalker himself insists, “We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problems, agree what’s in the best interests of all the people, and then do it.” Ominously, he adds that if they refuse, “They should be made to” -- and if that sounds like dictatorship, “Well, if it works ...”

“The Last Jedi” has a lot to say about the Light Side and the Dark Side, but there is nothing about grief and loss, and it’s banal about democracy. What it does with good and evil isn’t nearly interesting enough. Rey, our heroine, is never truly tempted. That’s boring.
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At least we can all agree that the greatest character in Star Wars history is LIEUTENANT CONNIX.
 
Too long, too many characters, too many subplots, too much Jedi FaceTime.

But when it’s good, it’s breathtaking.
 
Irvine511 said:
Too long, too many characters, too many subplots, too much Jedi FaceTime.

But when it’s good, it’s breathtaking.
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Felt too long to me as well. I'm not a Star Wars fanatic, I just enjoy the escapism.

I completely agree with another post I just read about Kylo Ren. Didn't care at all for the character or Adam Driver in the previous movie. Loved both in this one. The most interesting character to me and the best performance.
 
Saw it yesterday.

I’m a big Star Wars fan but far from a fanboy. I love the OT and do not really care for the PT.

Enjoyed The Force Awakens and thought it was a great start to the new trilogy and Rouge One was a solid movie as well.

The Last Jedi was pretty bad. Likely my least favorite since Attack of the Clones. There were so many “WTF” moments and Mary Poppins Leia was almost as bad as “Martha” from Batman V Superman.

I don’t know how to post a hidden spoiler, so I won’t list out all the things I thought were bad in detail but being non-specific .......




Potential minor Spoilers........…...................













Rose and Finns “journey” was pointless

Mary Poppins Leia

The timeline....this was ridiculous.

Turning Hux into Colonel Klink from Hogan’s Hero’s

The First Order are the most incompetent army in history

The “mutiny”....what a shit sandwich this “plot” was. You don’t follow orders....you’re demoted. You planned a mutiny....I like that guy!

Snoke (don’t want to give anything away)

Rey- I like her character but I had an issue with how strong she was in TFA just out of the blue and this movie takes things to another level. I guess all of the “training” that was always needed wasn’t?

The code breaker...there is only one that can do it!!! Except that there are apparently two???

I will watch it again because I want to like this movie and give it another chance but right now I feel like I just took a big bite of a shit sandwich with some special Star Wars sauce on it. It has that Star Wars feel to it but when I looked closer it was just a big turd.
 
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On another note.....not that this dictates quality because it doesn’t (see avatar) but The Last Jedi is killing it at the Boxoffice

I’m only 1 week it is at $600 million WW(not including China) and domestic stands at $296.

After this holiday weekend, it will hit $400 domestic and likely close to $900 million WW(still no China).

It won’t hit TFA numbers but was never expected to. I imagine it will pass out Avengers and Jurassic World to land as the 4th biggest movie WW ever(unadjusted but adjusting overseas currency is very difficult)
 
Traditionally Star Wars has not been as big worldwide as some other notable properties, so I wouldn't be so sure The Last Jedi passes Avengers in Jurassic World. If you look at the numbers for TFA, 45% of its total was domestic, whereas for Avatar and Titanic it was 27% and 30% respectively. For Jurassic World and Avengers you have 39% and 41%. #6 spot Furious 7 only had 23% domestic. Of the Top 20 all-time, TFA has the highest percentage from the U.S.
 
lazarus said:
Traditionally Star Wars has not been as big worldwide as some other notable properties, so I wouldn't be so sure The Last Jedi passes Avengers in Jurassic World. If you look at the numbers for TFA, 45% of its total was domestic, whereas for Avatar and Titanic it was 27% and 30% respectively. For Jurassic World and Avengers you have 39% and 41%. #6 spot Furious 7 only had 23% domestic. Of the Top 20 all-time, TFA has the highest percentage from the U.S.
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True. It’s also not anything close to special in China, which is needed to take a movie to “next level” WW numbers. However, this time of year there are so many kids out of school that business will be huge for TLJ not just this weekend but all of next week and next weekend.

I hope it gets to 1.65 billion but we will see how the word of mouth is (reviews have been stellar but fan feedback has been very mixed to poor).

Also, talking about how gross doesn’t = quality, it amazes me to this day how much Fast and Furious 7 made. That movie was GARBAGE.

Not as bad as Batman V Superman (which also made 875 million and was atrocious) but bad never the less.
 
lazarus said:
Traditionally Star Wars has not been as big worldwide as some other notable properties, so I wouldn't be so sure The Last Jedi passes Avengers in Jurassic World. If you look at the numbers for TFA, 45% of its total was domestic, whereas for Avatar and Titanic it was 27% and 30% respectively. For Jurassic World and Avengers you have 39% and 41%. #6 spot Furious 7 only had 23% domestic. Of the Top 20 all-time, TFA has the highest percentage from the U.S.
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After seeing the domestic 2nd weekend drop of nearly 70%, there is no way this hits $700 million domestic and therefore my hope of $1.65 billion WW is not going to happen. This might struggle to hit $1.4 billion (still an amazing result but a bigger drop from TFA than I would have expected).
 
I just got back from seeing The Last Jedi. This movie sucks on so many levels! And no, before you ask, I did not go in with clear expectations or wishes of how the story should unfold. In fact, I was greatly encouraged by the positive buzz surrounding Rian Johnson and the talk of him creating something new and exciting. If anything, I probably lean toward being a Star Wars apologist, often overlooking the flaws in the franchise.

This is the first Star Wars movie in which I have no interest in ever seeing again!
 
I hated TFA with as much passion as it's possible to hate a film, so I've been finished with the franchise since and have no intention of seeing anymore Star Wars films.

But no Star Wars film will ever lose money.

A new generation of fans will keep the Disney cash cow producing milk for a long long time to come.
 
And then stares into the camera as he wipes his beard.

Fuck, I love this movie. And I love how much it pisses people off.
 
I don't think there are any spoilers in this but yeah just be careful cuz who knows with people...




I saw the movie. Like a lot of people I'm feeling mixed. It's strange that with a primary plot mechanism that's so depended on maintaining momentum and racing the clock this is the longest of all the films and to me it definitely felt like it. Frankly I was bored out of my damn mind for the first hour to hour and a half, though it was still better than Rogue One. Structurally it doesn't hang at all, and while I appreciate all the threads it ultimately ties together by the end, it feels more like a hang-out movie than any of the others but has zero hanging uut, aside from some good moments with the fish nuns.

I dunno, I'll have to think about it a lot more but it just feels super flabby and a number of the components don't go anywhere satisfying after a lot of build-up. I'm not interested in getting deep into this argument but I have to say I think Abrams film, whatever its flaws, knows how to move, and beat for beat has the best feel of any of the films since the original. I don't think Johnson hangs at all when it comes to keeping things on the rails here until it nears its conclusion. I think he just had too many plates spinning to bring it together into a satisfying movie, but that's also been the case in all his work to date, so maybe I just don't like him.

That said, this is a fucking weird movie, in some ways very bad but in most ways very good. Leia's big "moment" is fucking hilariously awful, easily one of the worst in all the series and kind of a shame that's how we get to see her use the force in a major way after all this time. Luke's big moment on the other hand stands as one of the coolest in the saga. Fuck he's such a boss. Perfect conclusion for him as well with the scene set for him at the very end of the film and a really beautiful call back. Also, the big set piece in the throne room had me stamping my feet a little. That was awesome too. Lots of exquisite visual work in the final planet-side portion of the film including what's pretty easily my favorite single image in any of the films (Leia standing watch like a damn fashion queen before ordering them to close the gate before the final battle).

Overall, my feelings are more positive than not as most of the high-points for me came in the last 30-40 minutes, and I'm happy with a lot of the character work done here. I just don't really ever look forward to watching the damn thing again start to finish. I do also feel like this is a significantly less subversive or daring film than a lot of its advocates seem to think as at the end of the story. Likewise I fail to see what all the fucking mouthbreathers find so damn insulting about this too. Jesus christ...

Oh also I was definitely crying in the first couple minutes when Carrie Fisher first showed up on screen.
 
Um I think

Empire
Star Wars
The Force Awakens (sorry also fuck you)
Return of the Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
Clones
Phantom
...

...

...

Rogue One
 
New Hope
Empire

TFA/Last Jedi (need time to separate these two)
Return of the Jedi
Revenge of the Sith

Rogue One

Clones
Phantom Menace
 
I ranked them last week, after rewatches of ROTJ, Sith, and TFA, and a second viewing of TLJ.

1. The Empire Strikes Back 10/10
2. A New Hope 10/10
3. Revenge of the Sith 9/10
4. The Last Jedi 8/10
5. Attack of the Clones 7/10
6. The Phantom Menace 6/10
7. The Force Awakens 6/10
8. Rogue One 6/10
9. Return of the Jedi 5/10

TLJ feels more like an 8.5. But as Lance pointed out, the main plot gimmick of the slow chase is just dumb and poorly explained and only feels suspenseful when they cut back to it. Were it actually effective, it would be in the back of your mind as continuous tension throughout. I'll once again point to Lucas's superior sense of plotting as none of his films have this kind of overarching weakness. Johnson's choice doesn't damn the film but prevents it from being considerably better.

I also think the opening space battle, while refreshing with its thematic mission statement in depicting the heroics of a "nobody", felt a little redundant after the one that Sith begins with, and I wasn't crazy about that one either--the weakest sections of both films. TLJ and Sith are also similar in that once things really kick into gear about halfway through, it's just non-stop delight until the end. I give the edge slightly to Sith because of its gravitas and culmination of the six film (to that point) saga.

I hesitate to even include Rogue One because its narrative goals really make it an outlier. It's entertaining enough but really has zero resonance and barely adds anything to the larger picture it's taken from.
 
My mind really keeps coming back to how poorly executed the chase conceit of TLJ is. I do actually think that damns the film to a large degree for me, there’s just so little suspense and it really should be among the most suspenseful and highest stakes events of the saga the way it’s framed.

Still I do think history will generally look kindly back on this film despite the issues. Things this divisive usually do fare well.
 
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