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Old 09-24-2008, 06:06 AM   #46
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I think I know the pattern in this show. The old man scientist is going to know about every single case because each one will be connected to some experiment he's carried out in the '70s. It will turn out that his release from prison was all manipulated from the get-go. How convenient and unrealistic. The acting's not bad, though.
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
A hack is someone who does what the suits tell him to do. Abrams can pretty much get any project HE wants off the ground. He's in the driver's seat. Now you may think he's lowest common denominator sci-fi, but he's doing what he wants to, hence not a hack.

PACEY 4-LYFE.
I don't think that's a hack. Yeah, but he's allowed to do whatever he wants because his ambitions are so calculating and superficial. Same with Michael Bay, who directed the atrocious script for Transformers by the same bad co-creators of this show.

Inevitably a writer is forced to do what the suits tell him or the show isn't produced. Ira Steven Behr tried to write a more dramatic comedic story for the 3rd episode of Season 3 of The 4400. The studio was fine with it, but the USA network said it was too different and they wanted something more direct and action-driven. Behr had no choice, so they concocted some lame cliche story in the few days they had left because the network wouldn't accept what was better. Just because he was forced to do what the network told him doesn't make him a hack. If his original intention was to write something as vapid as Alias, then he'd be a hack.

It's cool if you have a thing for Pacey. He seems a decent guy in real life. I just don't care for his characters.
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so I am 24 minutes into episode 3

and yeah,
it sucks

I got a Shield episode on TIVO

so not all is lost.
I HATE that Vic Mackey. I just HATE him!
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:26 AM   #47
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How's Abrams a hack if he wants to explore a different type of science fiction than your boys Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore?
It's not the setting, but the lack of dramatic realism or political content; it's just more superficial shock and awe. There's a lot of stuff about terrorism, but it's just meaningless and without any real explanation for why these things occur in our world. It's terrorism Cobra-style on GI Joe -- as in based on an idiot's notion of why terrorism occurs.

Even Chris Carter's Millennium, at its best, was about understanding the humanity behind the criminal. The X-Files had a lot of healthy skepticism about the power of government, especially after Season 1. I remember watching those scenes in which the military was doing something underhanded and always thought to myself how preposterous it was. Americans are too morally superior for that; I was shocked, after 9/11, to see them have Mulder suffer torture in the series finale. How wrong I came to realize I was and how right Carter was all along because he'd been informed by what happened in Vietnam. The X-Files wasn't as insightful as DS9 or BSG or The 4400's later seasons, but it was subversively political and quite courageous, considering it was the Fox network.

I'd be fine if they could all do their shows, but there are finite resources and Paramount has given him all the power to do more superficial junk that the culture simply doesn't need. I don't think Abrams is a bad person, but he doesn't deserve all this creative power and money, when far more deserving writers are getting pushed to the side for actually caring about the world to write honestly about the most pressing issues of our time, risking their very careers. It's the difference between escapism and justice through political awakening. On every dramatic level, Behr is a more deserving and courageous and talented man. He actually cares about the writing the truth.

My concern comes from the fact that we are shaped, often from an early age, by the media to which we are exposed. Ask yourselves, why was America so ready to go to war in Iraq? Had most ever met an Iraqi or been aware of the debilitating devastation the first Gulf War reeked on them or how the US ambassador was consulted about whether it would be okay to invade Kuwait and how she said yes? It's essentially the propaganda of the state at the time and the intervening years of speeches by Bill Clinton aggrandizing himself by claiming he was defending America against the scourge of Saddam and all the TV shows that kept referring to Saddam as this terrible threat, including The X-Files.

More essentially, how we are taught to conceive of the origins of "evil" is essential -- how we perceived "the other". My favorite shows excel at explaining why "evil" occurs or at least attempt to. There is no true "evil" in them because the writers understand that conflict comes very often from conflicting perspectives and interests than some inherent evil in "the other". I fear that Palin, like Bush before her, honestly believes in these simplistic notions. I also believe that more complex stories in our culture can help eradicate such misconceptions. Abrams shows continue the devastating trend of originating evil in some "other" with nefarious interests that are totally unrelatable or in some parental figure, as in "Lost". George Lucas was an even worse offender. He wanted to challenge Americans with the notion that the Evil Empire was a colonial America attacking Vietnam, but no one came away with that message because it was too simplistic.

Something as morally ambiguous as terrorism is given its due on DS9, The 4400 and BSG. It's not just something practiced by evil people, but a means as morally ambiguous as war and requiring a case-by-case analysis to determine the extent of its morality. Just yesterday, I saw Tony Blair uttering lies about how Hamas and Hezbollah are just as grave a threat as Al Qaeda; this is a lie McCain has been espousing for years. While not perfect, Hamas and Hezbollah are at the very least as morally ambiguous as Israeli tools of oppression and state terror. Yet Western leaders are loathe to admit the terrorism they commit on a regular basis through international institutions and the threat or use of overwhelming force.

To change the disaster America and Blair have set for the world, we must change the culture in West because politicians are too craven to do it for us; the same can be said for Turkish or Iranian ill-treatment of Kurds, perhaps but these are much less secure societies. Truthfully complex writing on TV that addresses the most pressing issues of our time in ways the mainstream US media has completely failed offers one means of effecting cultural change. Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore care enough to do this and they've suffered for it.
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:57 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Muldfeld View Post

My concern comes from the fact that we are shaped, often from an early age, by the media to which we are exposed. Ask yourselves, why was America so ready to go to war in Iraq? Had most ever met an Iraqi or been aware of the debilitating devastation the first Gulf War reeked on them or how the US ambassador was consulted about whether it would be okay to invade Kuwait and how she said yes? It's essentially the propaganda of the state at the time and the intervening years of speeches by Bill Clinton aggrandizing himself by claiming he was defending America against the scourge of Saddam and all the TV shows that kept referring to Saddam as this terrible threat, including The X-Files.

More essentially, how we are taught to conceive of the origins of "evil" is essential -- how we perceived "the other". My favorite shows excel at explaining why "evil" occurs or at least attempt to. There is no true "evil" in them because the writers understand that conflict comes very often from conflicting perspectives and interests than some inherent evil in "the other". I fear that Palin, like Bush before her, honestly believes in these simplistic notions. I also believe that more complex stories in our culture can help eradicate such misconceptions. Abrams shows continue the devastating trend of originating evil in some "other" with nefarious interests that are totally unrelatable or in some parental figure, as in "Lost". George Lucas was an even worse offender. He wanted to challenge Americans with the notion that the Evil Empire was a colonial America attacking Vietnam, but no one came away with that message because it was too simplistic.

Something as morally ambiguous as terrorism is given its due on DS9, The 4400 and BSG. It's not just something practiced by evil people, but a means as morally ambiguous as war and requiring a case-by-case analysis to determine the extent of its morality. Just yesterday, I saw Tony Blair uttering lies about how Hamas and Hezbollah are just as grave a threat as Al Qaeda; this is a lie McCain has been espousing for years. While not perfect, Hamas and Hezbollah are at the very least as morally ambiguous as Israeli tools of oppression and state terror. Yet Western leaders are loathe to admit the terrorism they commit on a regular basis through international institutions and the threat or use of overwhelming force.

To change the disaster America and Blair have set for the world, we must change the culture in West because politicians are too craven to do it for us; the same can be said for Turkish or Iranian ill-treatment of Kurds, perhaps but these are much less secure societies. Truthfully complex writing on TV that addresses the most pressing issues of our time in ways the mainstream US media has completely failed offers one means of effecting cultural change. Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore care enough to do this and they've suffered for it.
Can you save this particular brand of babbling for FYM, please?

I mean, I'm sure that the rest of the Hamas and Hezbollah sympathizers here in Zoo Station enjoyed this post, but, regardless, I am not sure that it's right that I get exposed to this fucking tripe when I just want to post about Fringe.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:41 PM   #49
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It's not the setting, but the lack of dramatic realism or political content; it's just more superficial shock and awe. There's a lot of stuff about terrorism, but it's just meaningless and without any real explanation for why these things occur in our world. It's terrorism Cobra-style on GI Joe -- as in based on an idiot's notion of why terrorism occurs.

Even Chris Carter's Millennium, at its best, was about understanding the humanity behind the criminal. The X-Files had a lot of healthy skepticism about the power of government, especially after Season 1. I remember watching those scenes in which the military was doing something underhanded and always thought to myself how preposterous it was. Americans are too morally superior for that; I was shocked, after 9/11, to see them have Mulder suffer torture in the series finale. How wrong I came to realize I was and how right Carter was all along because he'd been informed by what happened in Vietnam. The X-Files wasn't as insightful as DS9 or BSG or The 4400's later seasons, but it was subversively political and quite courageous, considering it was the Fox network.

I'd be fine if they could all do their shows, but there are finite resources and Paramount has given him all the power to do more superficial junk that the culture simply doesn't need. I don't think Abrams is a bad person, but he doesn't deserve all this creative power and money, when far more deserving writers are getting pushed to the side for actually caring about the world to write honestly about the most pressing issues of our time, risking their very careers. It's the difference between escapism and justice through political awakening. On every dramatic level, Behr is a more deserving and courageous and talented man. He actually cares about the writing the truth.

My concern comes from the fact that we are shaped, often from an early age, by the media to which we are exposed. Ask yourselves, why was America so ready to go to war in Iraq? Had most ever met an Iraqi or been aware of the debilitating devastation the first Gulf War reeked on them or how the US ambassador was consulted about whether it would be okay to invade Kuwait and how she said yes? It's essentially the propaganda of the state at the time and the intervening years of speeches by Bill Clinton aggrandizing himself by claiming he was defending America against the scourge of Saddam and all the TV shows that kept referring to Saddam as this terrible threat, including The X-Files.

More essentially, how we are taught to conceive of the origins of "evil" is essential -- how we perceived "the other". My favorite shows excel at explaining why "evil" occurs or at least attempt to. There is no true "evil" in them because the writers understand that conflict comes very often from conflicting perspectives and interests than some inherent evil in "the other". I fear that Palin, like Bush before her, honestly believes in these simplistic notions. I also believe that more complex stories in our culture can help eradicate such misconceptions. Abrams shows continue the devastating trend of originating evil in some "other" with nefarious interests that are totally unrelatable or in some parental figure, as in "Lost". George Lucas was an even worse offender. He wanted to challenge Americans with the notion that the Evil Empire was a colonial America attacking Vietnam, but no one came away with that message because it was too simplistic.

Something as morally ambiguous as terrorism is given its due on DS9, The 4400 and BSG. It's not just something practiced by evil people, but a means as morally ambiguous as war and requiring a case-by-case analysis to determine the extent of its morality. Just yesterday, I saw Tony Blair uttering lies about how Hamas and Hezbollah are just as grave a threat as Al Qaeda; this is a lie McCain has been espousing for years. While not perfect, Hamas and Hezbollah are at the very least as morally ambiguous as Israeli tools of oppression and state terror. Yet Western leaders are loathe to admit the terrorism they commit on a regular basis through international institutions and the threat or use of overwhelming force.

To change the disaster America and Blair have set for the world, we must change the culture in West because politicians are too craven to do it for us; the same can be said for Turkish or Iranian ill-treatment of Kurds, perhaps but these are much less secure societies. Truthfully complex writing on TV that addresses the most pressing issues of our time in ways the mainstream US media has completely failed offers one means of effecting cultural change. Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore care enough to do this and they've suffered for it.
Damn. I guess I was wrong then.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:48 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Muldfeld View Post
It's not the setting, but the lack of dramatic realism or political content; it's just more superficial shock and awe. There's a lot of stuff about terrorism, but it's just meaningless and without any real explanation for why these things occur in our world. It's terrorism Cobra-style on GI Joe -- as in based on an idiot's notion of why terrorism occurs.

Even Chris Carter's Millennium, at its best, was about understanding the humanity behind the criminal. The X-Files had a lot of healthy skepticism about the power of government, especially after Season 1. I remember watching those scenes in which the military was doing something underhanded and always thought to myself how preposterous it was. Americans are too morally superior for that; I was shocked, after 9/11, to see them have Mulder suffer torture in the series finale. How wrong I came to realize I was and how right Carter was all along because he'd been informed by what happened in Vietnam. The X-Files wasn't as insightful as DS9 or BSG or The 4400's later seasons, but it was subversively political and quite courageous, considering it was the Fox network.

I'd be fine if they could all do their shows, but there are finite resources and Paramount has given him all the power to do more superficial junk that the culture simply doesn't need. I don't think Abrams is a bad person, but he doesn't deserve all this creative power and money, when far more deserving writers are getting pushed to the side for actually caring about the world to write honestly about the most pressing issues of our time, risking their very careers. It's the difference between escapism and justice through political awakening. On every dramatic level, Behr is a more deserving and courageous and talented man. He actually cares about the writing the truth.

My concern comes from the fact that we are shaped, often from an early age, by the media to which we are exposed. Ask yourselves, why was America so ready to go to war in Iraq? Had most ever met an Iraqi or been aware of the debilitating devastation the first Gulf War reeked on them or how the US ambassador was consulted about whether it would be okay to invade Kuwait and how she said yes? It's essentially the propaganda of the state at the time and the intervening years of speeches by Bill Clinton aggrandizing himself by claiming he was defending America against the scourge of Saddam and all the TV shows that kept referring to Saddam as this terrible threat, including The X-Files.

More essentially, how we are taught to conceive of the origins of "evil" is essential -- how we perceived "the other". My favorite shows excel at explaining why "evil" occurs or at least attempt to. There is no true "evil" in them because the writers understand that conflict comes very often from conflicting perspectives and interests than some inherent evil in "the other". I fear that Palin, like Bush before her, honestly believes in these simplistic notions. I also believe that more complex stories in our culture can help eradicate such misconceptions. Abrams shows continue the devastating trend of originating evil in some "other" with nefarious interests that are totally unrelatable or in some parental figure, as in "Lost". George Lucas was an even worse offender. He wanted to challenge Americans with the notion that the Evil Empire was a colonial America attacking Vietnam, but no one came away with that message because it was too simplistic.

Something as morally ambiguous as terrorism is given its due on DS9, The 4400 and BSG. It's not just something practiced by evil people, but a means as morally ambiguous as war and requiring a case-by-case analysis to determine the extent of its morality. Just yesterday, I saw Tony Blair uttering lies about how Hamas and Hezbollah are just as grave a threat as Al Qaeda; this is a lie McCain has been espousing for years. While not perfect, Hamas and Hezbollah are at the very least as morally ambiguous as Israeli tools of oppression and state terror. Yet Western leaders are loathe to admit the terrorism they commit on a regular basis through international institutions and the threat or use of overwhelming force.

To change the disaster America and Blair have set for the world, we must change the culture in West because politicians are too craven to do it for us; the same can be said for Turkish or Iranian ill-treatment of Kurds, perhaps but these are much less secure societies. Truthfully complex writing on TV that addresses the most pressing issues of our time in ways the mainstream US media has completely failed offers one means of effecting cultural change. Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore care enough to do this and they've suffered for it.

I approve this message.

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