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Old 06-16-2007, 04:42 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon


Unfortunately, neither exist in real life.
Care to explain?
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:44 PM   #107
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With a solid atheist ethos and a Mohammed cartoon + Piss Christ T-Shirt I beg to differ. There is a difference between what one says in the company of others for fear of social rejection and being brought to a court for saying it and keeping the chuch out of governance and not funding religious activities with taxpayers funds is quite achievable.
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:46 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Care to explain?
Speaking as an American, neither actually exist...not here anyway. Religion will always in some form or another bleed into and influence government. No one can be completely objective. Free speech is a total crock. If it actually did exist, there would be no such thing as edited albums, "hate speech" would be nonexistent, and slander would not be grounds to sue another human being.
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:51 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon


Speaking as an American, neither actually exist...not here anyway. Religion will always in some form or another bleed into and influence government.
Influence isn't the same as implementation.

Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon


No one can be completely objective.
Sure they can.

Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon


Free speech is a total crock. If it actually did exist, there would be no such thing as edited albums, "hate speech" would be nonexistent, and slander would not be grounds to sue another human being.
I think you are confusing concepts here. No one forces you to buy the edited album.

How would "hate speech" be nonexistent? That makes no sense.

Free speech does not include lies that can destroy.

I think you misunderstand the true definition of free speech.
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:53 PM   #110
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Quote:
The right to express any opinion in public without censorship or restraint by the government.
OK, based on this, I still stick by my opinion.
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:56 PM   #111
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Quote:
The right to express any opinion in public without censorship or restraint by the government.
Spreading lies about someone isn't expressing an opinion.

Yelling fire in a crowded theater isn't expressing an opinion.

And WalMart selling an edited album isn't the government.



Quote:
I still stick by my opinion.
And you are free to express that opinion but that opinion would be wrong.
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:56 PM   #112
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I suspect that Wanderer was only referring to government sanctions against speech, not other consequences. However, I agree that there are enough other intimidating consequences that effectively weaken actual free speech.
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:59 PM   #113
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_sp...on_free_speech

Also, just take a look at all of the examples they give for previous restrictions on free speech. The loose definition of free speech exists, but absolute free speech does not. Thus, I deem the term misleading.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:04 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_sp...on_free_speech

Also, just take a look at all of the examples they give for previous restrictions on free speech. The loose definition of free speech exists, but absolute free speech does not. Thus, I deem the term misleading.
But to call it a crock is ridiculous, especially based on those examples you gave.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:08 PM   #115
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I think the only place free speech actually exists is out on certain designated streets and interstates. We don't have it here at interference, you don't have it at school, you don't have it in a public office, and, considering I still live with my parents, I don't even have it in my own home.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:09 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon
I think the only place free speech actually exists is out on certain designated streets and interstates. We don't have it here at interference, you don't have it at school, you don't have it in a public office, and, considering I still live with my parents, I don't even have it in my own home.
But these aren't government sanctioned!!!
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:12 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But these aren't government sanctioned!!!
Tell me then, please, where and how I may speak my mind free of consequence.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:14 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Oh but those that don't believe in God don't count eh? Wow, the arrogance of conservative Christianity strikes again...
I never said they don't count. But if you choose to be a member of a different religion and you choose to live in the US (a mostly Christian nation), I'm sorry, but you might have to put up with "God" being in the Pledge. If people want to have "God" refer to Allah or Buddha or whoever, fine by me.

Quote:
I'm sure Jesus would love that...
Also, that is about the hundreth time you have used that phrase or one equivalent to it in the past couple of days. And you call me arrogant? Funny how you of all people would know exactly how Jesus would feel in every situation. That demeanor is getting old, sir. It wasnt at all enlightening the first time.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:15 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon


Tell me then, please, where and how I may speak my mind free of consequence.
The internet, a bar, a sidewalk, anywhere you'd like.

The reason there are restrictions in here and at school is to promote some form of order, to keep some kind of peace, BUT THEY ARE NOT GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED. They are rules created by private owners.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:20 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


I never said they don't count. But if you choose to be a member of a different religion and you choose to live in the US (a mostly Christian nation), I'm sorry, but you might have to put up with "God" being in the Pledge. If people want to have "God" refer to Allah or Buddha or whoever, fine by me.
"You might have to"? Why, just because you a part of majority and you get to make the rules? You're kidding right?


Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

Also, that is about the hundreth time you have used that phrase or one equivalent to it in the past couple of days. And you call me arrogant? Funny how you of all people would know exactly how Jesus would feel in every situation. That demeanor is getting old, sir. It wasnt at all enlightening the first time.
I do it to make you think, to try and get you to justify your thought process. So I'm guessing you can't?
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