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Old 08-17-2002, 08:34 PM   #16
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I think Melon's response was very respectful yet effective in demostrating the reality of the issue.

Yet some of the other responses disappoint me; if someone' religious doctrine (or scientific/medical or whatever theories) are critical of physical homosexual activity, it does not automatically make that person a "homophobe" (one who is fearful of homosexuals/homosexuality); to accuse them of such is nothing more than juvenile name calling. And to say "if you can't take the heat, get out of FYM" is a trite contradiction, isn't it? we all know that this place is ideally about free speech and the open exchange of ideas, then shouldn't someone such as Trip be allowed to point out that certain religions do consider homosexuality, fornication, beer-drinking, polyester clothing, and eating pork a sin, without her being labelled as "phobic" of such indulgences?

Just a thought for you to ponder.

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Old 08-17-2002, 08:47 PM   #17
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Well...

I agree with Melon and Zooropa.

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Old 08-17-2002, 08:53 PM   #18
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Somedays I have phobias against pig-farmers
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Old 08-17-2002, 09:06 PM   #19
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Here in Alabama, many people in rural areas have phobias against pig farmers because of the environmental side effects that their operations bring to the area. Pig farms are very stinky, and if they propose opening a farm next to a residential area, the residents "fear" it due to the stinch that will permeate the area and the loss of property values which will possibly follow. Diamond's phobia is not entirely unfounded.

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Old 08-17-2002, 09:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zooropa
Homosexuality is not a choice, so if infact God created all living things, he purposely created homosexuals. Following this logic, why should God have a problem with homosexuality?
There is no proof that Homosexuality is genetic, or hereditary, or anything similar. If anything influences someone's sexual preferences, it's his environment... not his DNA or genes.

God did in fact create all living things. And it was the reproductive system between a male and a female that enabled those living things to procreate and stay on the earth.

I believe that someone could argue from a biological standpoint that if in fact, homosexuality was related to genes, then it would be a detrimental mutation, since it kept them from being able to pass their genes on to another animal. But like I said, that's IF it was genetic, which it isn't.

Many people change their sexual orientation several times in their lifetime. Some change from heterosexuality to homosexuality (and vice versa) after years of living in one way. It's a choice, or a decision based on several factors like conditioning, environment, input, etc.

If someone says that the above post makes me homophobic, then you've clearly misread the post and the intention behind it.
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Old 08-17-2002, 09:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zooropa
Homosexuality is not a choice, so if infact God created all living things, he purposely created homosexuals.
by this same logic, God also "created" newborns with heart defects and other devastating abnoralities in health...that's not to say we embrace and celebrate those "inherent" things...we don't just sit back and allow these things to run their course. in my opinion, individuals wanting or engaging in fornification with the same sex (because of a supposedly "natural" inclination or by choice) have a defect/abnorality.

if you choose to believe that homosexuals are "born" that way, and if you know anything about the God of Christianity, it would be false to claim that He "purposely" instills or creates an inclination in men for something in which He clearly condemns. If you are familiar with the Bible, you also know about the Fall of man, in which descendants of Adam and Eve would be plagued with all sorts of disease (inclusive of the mind and hearts of men). so you cannot claim that He brings about or "creates" these abominations.

if God is in fact perfectly okay with homosexuality--wow, it's pretty damn unfair that He never blessed these individuals with the ability to pro-create, isn't it? Now that would be pretty unjust for God to have such favor with only those who engage in heterosexual fornification...wouldn't it? The God i know and believe in is far from unjust.
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:03 PM   #22
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Is being gay natural? i dont think so

is being gay wrong? no

is it a sin? maybe, but who really has the list of sins

does a gay person fell atracted sexually to another (wo)man or do they love them from the heart or both?

Do you love your best friend?

Would you have sex with them?

What i think that gay men must like to have sex with eachother.
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:04 PM   #23
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Ok just stop.
Guys/Girls..
See once you start saying or making a correlation between ppl w heart defects and ppl having homosexual tendencies having a "defect"" you WILL ignite a war here.
It will become ugly..

Can we just be inclusionary here?
As Bono is inclusionary?

Thanks-
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Ok just stop.
Guys/Girls..
See once you start saying or making a correlation between ppl w heart defects and ppl having homosexual tendencies having a "defect"" you WILL ignite a war here.
It will become ugly..

As someone with a heart defect, I must agree. What I have was corrected by surgery. I don't feel gay people have anything that needs to be "corrected." Let's not get ugly.
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
And to say "if you can't take the heat, get out of FYM" is a trite contradiction, isn't it? we all know that this place is ideally about free speech and the open exchange of ideas, then shouldn't someone such as Trip be allowed to point out that certain religions do consider homosexuality, fornication, beer-drinking, polyester clothing, and eating pork a sin, without her being labelled as "phobic" of such indulgences?

Just a thought for you to ponder.

~U2Alabama
But no one is stopping Trip from saying whatever she believes. She's perfectly allowed to say it. Neither me nor any of the other mods edited or deleted her post, so she has been allowed to say her peace just as freely as everyone else. It's not our problem that she happens to be in the minority. If she doesn't want to be in the minority on this one, she can:

1.) Try to round up some other more conservative posters to support her; OR
2.) Post about this on a different forum in which she'll likely have more supporters.

As for her being labeled "phobic," well, that all depends on your definition. Some people feel that labeling homosexuals as "deviants" or "sinners" in their own category qualifies as homophobic. I leave it up to all of you to decide what homophobia is, but I hate when people seem to believe that gay people are somehow worse sinners (if homosexuality or homosexual acts are in fact sins at all, which I don't believe they are) than the rest of us. It's homophobia in my book.
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:44 PM   #26
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Sorry; I just found the
Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
If you can't take the heat, get out of FYM.
statement to be an open invitation for people to flame Trip and call her names just for posting a question she had.

In divisive threads on other topics, there have been instances of someone posting a controversial viewpoint, opinion, theory or whatever, and someone else, be they conservative, liberal, etc., says "that is offensive" and people start running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

I think it can go both ways on any topic.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:53 PM   #27
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Point taken. Myself and the other mods will make every attempt to ascertain that no one is abused for their viewpoints.

Carry on, I'm going to bed. I have a wicked headache.
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:59 PM   #28
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Sleep well, and I hope the headache goes away.
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Old 08-17-2002, 11:00 PM   #29
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Yes...

Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife


As someone with a heart defect, I must agree. What I have was corrected by surgery. I don't feel gay people have anything that needs to be "corrected." Let's not get ugly.
Exactly.

Someone said, "Is homosexuality natural" and answered their own question with "no". I personally don't see why homosexuality isn't considered "natural" by some people, but that's just me. *shrugs*

Angela
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Old 08-18-2002, 02:39 AM   #30
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If homosexuality is a sin, then God sure did create an awful lot of us with sins. Sin under the biblical definition exists in most of us in one way. How many suffer the unfortunate defect of pride? I do. Lust. I am guilty. Why do we place homosexuality as a sin, in worse esteem than others? Why do we single it out over so many that fall into black and white sins set out by God?

While it is fantastic that people can be honest enough with themselves and others to voice their disagreement with it, lets not elevate it to some kind of super sin status.
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