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Old 04-05-2003, 05:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus

FizzingWhizzbees:
why did you disslike that idea?
Well...let's just say the Stop the War campaign I'm involved in is about 75% men and 25% women, so a kiss-a-thon would have been distinctly one-sided.
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Old 04-05-2003, 06:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
FizzingWhizzbees,
I do not think you are correct about what this war is about. I think you don't know Bush's character very well, honestly. However, even if you are correct, do you think that Saddam shouldn't be overthrown because the Coalition's intentions supposedly "aren't right"? Even if we are doing it "for oil" (which we aren't), the Coalition is conducting itself in an honorable and compassionate manner, taking careful steps to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible, and an evil Regime is going down. How can that be a bad thing?
I almost forgot to respond to this, with all the other discussions going on in this thread. Sorry about that.

I don't really think anyone can know much about Bush's character unless they are a personal acquaintance of his, so I'm wary of people arguing that this war must be moral because Bush is "a man of character" etc.

I do believe Saddam should be overthrown, however if the intentions of the US/UK in attacking Iraq aren't "right" then I think it raises lots of concerns about what will happen in Iraq after Saddam is deposed. I don't believe the US/UK went in there because they wanted to bring democracy to Iraq, so I have a lot of concerns about what will happen to the Iraqi people when the US/UK have won this war (and no, I don't think there's any doubt that they'll win).

I'd also question the idea that the US/UK are acting entirely appropriately. For instance, I think the use of cluster bombs is absolutely unjustifiable in any circumstances. For anyone not aware of what cluster bombs are (sorry if that's a really condescending thing to say) they're bombs which break up into hundreds of smaller bombs. That all sounds fine, until you find out that often those smaller bombs don't explode on impact and so they lie on the ground like landmines until a person accidentaly steps on them and is killed or horrifically injured. I don't believe cluster bombs comply with the international law which prohibits the use of weapons which cannot distinguish between combatants and non-combatants either...

In conclusion, no the removal of Saddam wouldn't be a bad thing. However, the means don't always justify the end, and I'm also concerned about what will happen once Saddam is removed.
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Old 04-05-2003, 09:33 PM   #33
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What Basstrap said...shifting/wavering motives are a worry, smacks of electioneering, heck, we spent much of the leadup talking about how the coalition would 'sell' the war! WMD/Human Rights were the two cards they played most often.
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Old 04-05-2003, 10:01 PM   #34
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What bothers me is your interpretation that there was some hidden agenda on the part of this administration. I too do not like the fact that many, especially Richard Pearle, wanted to attack Iraq immediately after 9/11. This was not hushed up, or kept secret. It has been on the news, in the news, and in at least two books that I have read.

Mr. Pearle was urging Israel to attack Iraq in 1997-98 when he worked for the Israeli governement. There is no smoking gun, nor any secret that this is what he desired to do.
I think there are definitely hidden agendas by this administration as Fizz has stated. To me another telling idea is why would a young administration not only align itself with previous eras but bring former extremists into its cabinet.
Bringing in Cheney must have seemed like a way to bring legitimaty to a inexperienced candidate, but then to bring in Rumsfeld, Perle, and Wolfowitz stinks of that hidden WEI agenda. Otherwise I may have even bought into the compassionate conservative line of bullshit mysef.
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Old 04-05-2003, 11:31 PM   #35
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Re: Re: What, besides War, would have stopped these monsters?

Quote:
Originally posted by ALEXRUS


U tried them and they don't work? Poor boys...
Of course, it's harder to multiply 2 by 2 than to start a war. It's harder to use one's brains than fists, especially when fists are the biggest...
Poor boys? Do you think the US are the only ones who have tried to assassinate Saddam? Do you think we're the only ones who have tried to bring a coup? Do you think we're the only ones who participated in the sanctions? No on all counts. Those 3 thinsg have not worked and would enver work.

Your post is condescending, to say the least. You talk about "Brains", but I haven't noticed you giving one feasible alternative - or any world leader that is opposed the war. If they have so much "brainpower", why haven't they?
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Old 04-06-2003, 07:25 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer


oh c'mon now.
i'm sorry, i fogret the "" at "convince"
i ment "convincing" like the Iraq was "convinced" to allow Weapon inspections.

Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Well...let's just say the Stop the War campaign I'm involved in is about 75% men and 25% women, so a kiss-a-thon would have been distinctly one-sided.
you should feel lucky, at least you would have had a choice the rest of the males whould have to take another man?
ok, don't take it serious

80sU2isBest:
Let's hope the US are smarter this time than in the late 70ies and don't plant the next demon seed there

Klaus
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Old 04-06-2003, 11:52 AM   #37
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Re: Re: Re: What, besides War, would have stopped these monsters?

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Your post is condescending, to say the least. You talk
about "Brains", but I haven't noticed you giving one feasible alternative - or any world leader that is opposed the war. If they have so much "brainpower", why haven't they?
Maybe because they are more afraid of Mr.Bush than of Mr.Hussein
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Old 04-06-2003, 12:17 PM   #38
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Re: Re: Re: What, besides War, would have stopped these monsters?

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Your post is condescending, to say the least. You talk about "Brains", but I haven't noticed you giving one feasible alternative - or any world leader that is opposed the war. If they have so much "brainpower", why haven't they?
You should not forget that France, Germany and Russia announced that they have worked out a solution and will present it on the next scheduled UN meeting.
One day after that G.W.Bush made his "famous" speach with the Iraq ultimatum - and guess what - the ultimatum ended shortly before that UN meeting - coincidence?
I'm pretty sure G.W.B. had no more interest (lots of diplomats say he didn't have that interest from the beginning) in a peaceful solution.

Klaus
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