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Old 02-03-2004, 02:09 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase




if this story is indeed 100% true then it is indeed sad. but i'd rather have a few sad stories of relatives unable to see each other over a misunderstanding with immigration than thousands of stories of people who lost loved ones who were just going to work for the day...
I think it's insulting to the people mentioned in this story to dismiss their experience as merely a "sad story." We're talking about a man who was detained with no explanation for over 24 hours, denied a fair opportunity to inform their family of their whereabouts and then treated in a degrading manner while on a flight back to the UK. We're also talking about a woman who had no idea what had happened to her brother and had concerns about his medical conditions being exacerbated by his treatment.

I wonder if it would be a mere "sad story" if it happened to you?
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Old 02-05-2004, 04:12 AM   #17
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While I agree that he was treated harshly, I don't think this was a result of the Patriot Act exclusively. This sort of thing happens quite often, and not just in the US. I've read dozens of personal accounts of Americans entering the UK on the visa waiver being grilled by immigration officers, detained in the cells for hours while their journals were being examined and their luggage searched, and then being deported to the US after being allowed only a very brief phone call. Even when you're entering a country legally, your entry is subject to the discretion of the immigration officer on duty.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:45 AM   #18
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
I wonder if it would be a mere "sad story" if it happened to you?
Without trying to speak for Headache, I believe his use of the phrase "sad story" is his expression of outrage.
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Old 02-05-2004, 11:48 AM   #19
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Originally posted by meegannie
While I agree that he was treated harshly, I don't think this was a result of the Patriot Act exclusively. This sort of thing happens quite often, and not just in the US. I've read dozens of personal accounts of Americans entering the UK on the visa waiver being grilled by immigration officers, detained in the cells for hours while their journals were being examined and their luggage searched, and then being deported to the US after being allowed only a very brief phone call. Even when you're entering a country legally, your entry is subject to the discretion of the immigration officer on duty.

I was pulled into secondary security when I visited Canada last November simply because it was my second visit in 6 months. I was diverted from the regular Canada Customs line and sent to another office where a very unfriendly customs agent wanted to know exactly why I was there, where I was staying, who I was visiting and what I did for a living in the US. He asked me each question several times and even wanted the addresses where I would be staying. I even showed him the flyer for the U2 fan event I was attending that weekend but it didn't seem to make much of a difference.

I finally asked him why I was being interrogated this way when I was traveling with a valid passport and picture ID and he said that my "frequent" visits triggered a secondary screening.

My situation was entirely different than the man in this article and I was probably only detained for maybe 10 minutes but I was really scared, wondering what rights I had and what I would do if they decided to hold me there or send me back to the US.

So yeah, I agree with Meggie that this happens everywhere.
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Old 02-05-2004, 11:57 PM   #20
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Without trying to speak for Headache, I believe his use of the phrase "sad story" is his expression of outrage.
It clearly was not a strong enough reaction. Headache is way out of line.

headache please...show your outrage...more appropriatley...



For example...

on anyone for judging anothers level of rage or outrage from a post on an internet board.
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Old 02-06-2004, 10:53 AM   #21
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
on anyone for judging anothers level of rage or outrage from a post on an internet board.
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:42 PM   #22
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than thousands of stories of people who lost loved ones who were just going to work for the day...


here's two of those stories, which i didn't even call "sad" in my original post, whom i knew personally...



again... i'd rather have a few very sad stories of relatives unable to see each other over a misunderstanding with immigration than thousands of stories about people who lost loved ones who were just going to work for the day... the kind of stories that are so heartbreakingly sad that they make you question your entire purpose on this earth.

i hope i've expressed my outrage in a more telling, visable matter this time around...
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Old 02-06-2004, 03:58 PM   #23
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I'd rather we just go after people we have very strong proof of being potentially dangerous. If people overhear threats from someone or a group of people that seem very real and report them, and if a person's baggage, when checked, has some weapons and stuff, then we deal directly with those people.

And it sucks that this happens all over the world, too. It sucks that we're all so freakin' suspicious of each other nowadays simply because of a few cold-hearted creeps' actions.

Also, well put, FizzingWhizzbees. .

Angela
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Old 02-06-2004, 04:30 PM   #24
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Oh...if it were only just a FEW.

AS I posted in the article written by a former terrorist. Terrorists are supported by Islamists through money even though they may not be the actual terrorists committing the atrocities. Terrorists and the more radical Muslims when they speak of peace, are not really speaking of peace, but waiting until they have the upper hand.

Which is EXACTLY what the President of Malaysia was saying months ago when I was FLamed for being anti-muslim.

Does this man's situation sadden me...yes. Am I mad at the government for taking measures to be more proactive...no. Am I pissed off at Extremists that have caused this situation. Yes.
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Old 02-06-2004, 05:01 PM   #25
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I hope you all are just as forgiving if another country treats you or another law-abiding American this brutally.

But no...I know you all won't.

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Old 02-06-2004, 05:58 PM   #26
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And if Americans were to take 4 planes and drive them into buildings killing people inside of them in the name of whatever.....

yeah...I think I would be consistent enough to understand why their country had increased its security meaures.

And if America was dominated by preachers and a boarderline theocracy that preached peace out one side of its mouth, and cheered for the terrorists out the other.....

And if America had state sponsored papers that encouraged suicide bombings...

Then Yeah...I am pretty sure I would be consistent enough to have a grip on why the security measures had changed.
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Old 02-06-2004, 06:00 PM   #27
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Again,,,I am sad for this man and his family...it is sad that we continue to point the finger at our governement for trying to protect us. Shame on the people who brought us to this place....
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Old 02-06-2004, 09:05 PM   #28
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I forgot about that peaceful celebration the hajj....

No reason to feel threatened at all by that as well.
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Old 02-06-2004, 09:15 PM   #29
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Now we're blaming this on terrorists. Tell me how a British man with a 20 year-old drug conviction (not terrorism, not violent crime, etc.) warrants being mistreated?

We use 9/11 to excuse everything. Is it remotely possible to suggest that this has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11? Because once that specter is brought up, then you're condemned for criticizing any public policy. God forbid...

Melon
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Old 02-06-2004, 09:54 PM   #30
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well i guess some of us here naive people believe that 9/11 changed everything. maybe some others don't think that way. i dunno. the system is far from perfect. it's been just over 2 years since 9/11. the american system it's self isn't perfect, and it's had over 200 years to perfect it's self. before 9/11 we did too little. after 9/11 we're obviously doing too much.

i'm right smack in the middle of it. 5 people from my home town died that day, a relatively low amount compared to other neighborhoods in the new york metro area. i attended 16 different funerals/services in the months that followed... traveling back and forth from new hampshire, where i was attending school at the time. one day i attended 4 services alone. noell maerz... who's one of the men picture in my previous post... he has a young baby boy... born in october of 2001. he never got to see his son.

so yeah... admittedly... we're doing too much. this man should never have been denied enterance to the united states. he is no threat to national secuirty. but again... for the third time... i'd rather have a few mistakes of over-protection while we continue to develop the system then 1 deadly mistake of under-protection. but that's just me.
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