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Old 09-29-2004, 10:22 AM   #16
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both bush AND kerry have made thier positions/platform ABUNDANTLY clear. if you actually pay attention to what bush says, you know what he stands for. if you pay attention to what kerry says, you know what he stands for. both candidates have very detailed platforms which you can access on the internet ... and even have brief versions on their websites. anyone who says they don't know what EITHER candidate stands for is just watching cnn and soaking up soundbytes from commercials and speeches to party members. we are all grown adults. there's no excuse for anyone to not know what either candidate stands for.
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:25 AM   #17
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my statement was in response to people who say "i don't know what kerry stands for" or "bush has not layed out a plan for anything yet." they both have. everyone should know what both of them stand for. and if you don't, it's easy to find it out. people who complain about not knowing are trying to sway people's vote by an uneducated statement. you should research the two platforms and select the candidate that reflects your views...
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky


No problem. Read Kerry's speech.

First, the President has to get the promised international support so our men and women in uniform don’t have to go it alone. It is late; the President must respond by moving this week to gain and regain international support.

Second, the President must get serious about training Iraqi security forces.

Third, the President must carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people.

Fourth, the President must take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee the promised elections can be held next year.
So, how does Kerry plan on getting us out of Iraq???

All he is saying is to do things faster, better or with more help (the question of who would help is unanswered).

None of these elements are "new" in the sense that the current administration is taking no action on them.
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:26 AM   #19
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Originally posted by sharky


No problem. Read Kerry's speech.

First, the President has to get the promised international support so our men and women in uniform don’t have to go it alone. It is late; the President must respond by moving this week to gain and regain international support.

Second, the President must get serious about training Iraqi security forces.

Third, the President must carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people.

Fourth, the President must take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee the promised elections can be held next year.
swell... frankly i would happen to agree with all that. they're pretty good ideas...


however, that's all they are... ideas. bush has said many of the same things. a plan would involve actually explaining how in the blue hell he plans to accomplish these ideas.
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:32 AM   #20
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Originally posted by Anirban
my statement was in response to people who say "i don't know what kerry stands for" or "bush has not layed out a plan for anything yet." they both have. everyone should know what both of them stand for. and if you don't, it's easy to find it out. people who complain about not knowing are trying to sway people's vote by an uneducated statement. you should research the two platforms and select the candidate that reflects your views...
i've read the DNC's platform, i've read any transcript of a kerry speach i can find, and frankly, yes... i know in my mind what the man stands for. his record in the senate states pretty clearly what he stands for. unfortunatly the man's public statements on issues now change from week to week depending on what the polls say. apparently he's not confident enough in his record to let it stand on it's own.
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:33 AM   #21
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Thats why Kerry is not going to win. He has great ideas but he can't explain how in the world they are going to get done. I don't think he even knows.

The fact is Bush is just better at politics than Kerry. If Bush is so stupid, as many leftes like to think, why can't you beat him? And please don't say that the American public is stupid.

And if Germnay wants to be anti-American if Bush wins, I'm fine with that. They can be as close-minded as they want. Oooops, I think I just became the ugly-American for standing up for myself...
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:40 AM   #22
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to be fair ... bush does the same thing. on another poll (edit: i meant post) someone listed all of bush's "flip flops." i don't accept those to be flip-flops, but just changes in the way he states certain things. you have seen how people misconstrue their statements. when cheney said that terrorists would attack if kerry was elected, he didn't mean that terrorists are afraid of bush and would be excited if kerry got elected so they could attack with more ease. they hate america....no matter who is president. moreover, when kerry said he would vote to give the president the authority to strike without congressional approval (which was used in iraq) but still would vote against any extension of resources for the war .. it's isn't because he hasn't made up his mind. it's because the first vote was for a presidential power he believed in ... but disgreed with president's use of it. moreover, he is not against giving troops armor and equipment ... he was aginst bush's plan for the war because of ideological differences and voted as a protest. there are very few politicians that are "stupid men." accusing them of not making up their mind is insulting and an excuse not to find out what they stand for. i understand that a supporter for either candidiate would like to accuse the other one of not specifying his/her views ... but when explaining to someone what a candidate stands for (like this thread) i think we should all leave political sway out of it. "dutchfan" wanted to know bush's views and accomplishments ... not a political smear commercial about EITHER candidate.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:53 PM   #23
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Tnx for your replies I am going to do my very best in english, its not my native language.

Well in my surrounding people find GB scary and a real danger for worldpeace. Maybe other people in my country dont but I dont know all of them.

I heard that Kerry was very ahead in the poles an now GB makes a run and it is close....And thats why I asked the question.


GB does not seem to do a lot of things for the poor people and normal people is the opinion in my country. I see a lot of stuff on my tv about poverty and other things while GB is trowing millions in a `lost` war.( a war with al lot of deaths and no winners.....) A war on terror is not an issue here because we didnot get the dissaster ofcourse....we have no fear. But fear is a very bad advisor. USA (GB) makes a lot of noise....wants to rule the world. `if you arre not with us you are against us´he said...Well i like to make up my own opinion. and being against his policy doesnot make me the enemy.

1 out of 8 people in USA live uder poverty level, thats what is told here. A lot of childeren go to school without breakfast and lunch. A lot of single mums have to work two or more jobs to get by, is have seen that on tv here in a documentry.
And his brother in Florida gets an awful lot of money for the damagings in the hurricanes.......and other states less.

well thats what I heard. I dont know anymore, so that why i asked. And who is going to doe more about these things. Or doesnot anybody care and does all the attentions go to Irak and Afghanistan policy?????
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Old 09-29-2004, 02:20 PM   #24
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The debates could change a few numbers, I don't know. It really depends on if Kerry can define his positions on issues so that voters understand what they are, and they like them. I think he has a strong domestic agenda, especially in the health care costs area. But he hasn't articulated it to the public in a coherent manner. People basically vote for ideas, not actually a person. That's why this "package" deal isn't working.
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Old 09-29-2004, 05:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by dutchfan
Tnx for your replies I am going to do my very best in english, its not my native language.

Well in my surrounding people find GB scary and a real danger for worldpeace. Maybe other people in my country dont but I dont know all of them.

I heard that Kerry was very ahead in the poles an now GB makes a run and it is close....And thats why I asked the question.


GB does not seem to do a lot of things for the poor people and normal people is the opinion in my country. I see a lot of stuff on my tv about poverty and other things while GB is trowing millions in a `lost` war.( a war with al lot of deaths and no winners.....) A war on terror is not an issue here because we didnot get the dissaster ofcourse....we have no fear. But fear is a very bad advisor. USA (GB) makes a lot of noise....wants to rule the world. `if you arre not with us you are against us´he said...Well i like to make up my own opinion. and being against his policy doesnot make me the enemy.

1 out of 8 people in USA live uder poverty level, thats what is told here. A lot of childeren go to school without breakfast and lunch. A lot of single mums have to work two or more jobs to get by, is have seen that on tv here in a documentry.
And his brother in Florida gets an awful lot of money for the damagings in the hurricanes.......and other states less.

well thats what I heard. I dont know anymore, so that why i asked. And who is going to doe more about these things. Or doesnot anybody care and does all the attentions go to Irak and Afghanistan policy?????
Thanks for the post Dutch. Very coherent for a non-native speaker. And this is what I've been looking for -- how to people outside of this country see Bush? it doesn't seem to be good and that should be a factor when you step in the voting box. Just because we are a super power doesn't mean we are the only power. We need allies and we have abandoned all of them. 85% of Canadians said they wouldn't vote for Bush. A story in Gernany said that if we vote Bush into office, many poeple Germans will go from being anti-Bush to anti-American, wondering how stupid we could be to elect this guy.

And you bring up an interesting point about the hurricanes. Does anyone have stats on how much aid NYC has received for 9/11 and how much florida has received for the hurricanes? I know Florida has gotten much more money per capita for anti-terror measures than NYC...wonder why.
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Old 09-29-2004, 06:08 PM   #26
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Well, it really seems to me, a staunch Anti-Bush European, that out of the two Bush really does appear to be the strongest.

Of course, I support Kerry and would love nothing better than to see him become president, but I can't help but feel that he did actually screw up in more ways than one, particularly before the actual campaign. He needed to have the courage to go out on a limb, as opposed to being the middle man.

When you have a population pumped up with fear and war, the last thing you want is to listen to a man who seems indecisive and, well, not that much opinionated.

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Old 09-29-2004, 06:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky


Thanks for the post Dutch. Very coherent for a non-native speaker. And this is what I've been looking for -- how to people outside of this country see Bush? it doesn't seem to be good and that should be a factor when you step in the voting box. Just because we are a super power doesn't mean we are the only power. We need allies and we have abandoned all of them. 85% of Canadians said they wouldn't vote for Bush. A story in Gernany said that if we vote Bush into office, many poeple Germans will go from being anti-Bush to anti-American, wondering how stupid we could be to elect this guy.

Yes, I've had the same experience talking to friends in other countries...they absolutely cannot believe that this election is even close. And most have a very good understanding of the issues here, so it isn't some blind hatred of Dubya. One thing I think is strange is that I've heard people (in the US, locally and otherwise) that they are more likely to vote for Bush BECAUSE people in other nations dislike him...and for virtually no other reason. To me that is completely foolhardy. I fear for far too many US citizens hold the "We're a superpower, we are all right and everyone else is wrong" feeling. Ever hear that saying "Pride goeth before a fall?" I feel this nation is wallowing in overabundant pride.
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Old 09-29-2004, 06:10 PM   #28
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We were not always a super power and we won't always be a super power. Look no further than the British Empire 100 years ago.
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Old 09-29-2004, 06:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
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We were not always a super power and we won't always be a super power. Look no further than the British Empire 100 years ago.
Yep. Many examples throughout history. Unfortunately, we aren't good at history in the US....
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Old 09-29-2004, 10:23 PM   #30
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This was said before about the US:
"I fear for far too many US citizens hold the "We're a superpower, we are all right and everyone else is wrong" feeling. Ever hear that saying "Pride goeth before a fall?" I feel this nation is wallowing in overabundant pride."

That can not be any further from the truth. I have never, not once, heard or felt that opinion. I have felt that actually though in Europe. When I make trips to Ireland, I hear comments like you describe, but from the Euros. I asked my cousin what that was, she said a lot of Europeans "fancy themselves as cute when it comes to Americans" like they know how it really is and we are lsimilar to blind people.
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