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Old 01-07-2008, 06:32 AM   #481
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So the Germans really like Obama? They hate Bush. They opposed the war. So did France. Remember "freedom fries"?
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:35 AM   #482
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Well, for one thing, we need to get rid of the Electoral College.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:25 AM   #483
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Originally posted by verte76
So the Germans really like Obama? They hate Bush. They opposed the war. So did France. Remember "freedom fries"?
Who is France?

I haven't talked to many people about it, but I might go and take a little survey.

We are generally more leaning towards the Democratic party, and there to those who are more left, because that means they are kind of center-left in German politics, so it's not a surprise that many would take Obama over Hilary (though she, on the other hand, might profit from the great image and reputation Bill enjoys here).

But as long as the President is going to see us as equal partners, and listens to us as well, so we can have prosperous debates and negotiations, we will be very welcoming.
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:16 AM   #484
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MANCHESTER., New Hampshire

(Reuters) - A family who says its daughter died because a health insurance company refused to pay for an operation campaigned with Democrat John Edwards on Sunday, reinforcing his election message that corporate greed is hurting Americans.

The parents and brother of 17-year-old Nataline Sarkisyan, who died of leukemia on December 20, recounted their story to an audience of around 500 and said Edwards struck a chord with their grief.

The event, two days before a nominating vote in New Hampshire where Edwards trails rivals Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, dramatized his message that the U.S. middle class is being threatened by corporate greed.

Edwards finished a distant second to Obama in Iowa last week, the first contest in the state-by-state process to pick candidates for the November election, and his campaign could lose momentum without a strong showing on Tuesday.

"This (the cause of Sarkisyan and others) is what drives me every single day. This is what this fight is all about. ... I am in it with heart and soul and with every fiber of my being," Edwards said to applause.

Edwards, who is proposing a $120 billion plan that would give health insurance to all, says many drug and insurance companies are responsible for creating a situation in which millions of Americans either lack health insurance or have cover inadequate for their needs.

Sarkisyan contracted leukemia at 14 and was treated with chemotherapy under her father's health insurance plan. Last summer the leukemia returned and she received a bone marrow transplant from her older brother Bedig.

Complications arose, her liver ceased to function and doctors at UCLA hospital recommended a transplant.

"But CIGNA HealthCare ruled that the treatment was 'experimental' because of the leukemia and not covered by her policy," said a statement from the Edwards campaign. The family would have had to pay $75,000 for an operation, it said.

Cigna eventually agreed to pay but Nataline died the same day. In a statement after her death, CIGNA said her father's insurance plan had not covered the transplant but that it had decided to make an exception.

"My heart is a hole. I didn't know any insurance company ... (could be so) careless," mother Hilda Sarkisyan said of her daughter who died aged.

"I haven't cried. I can't cry. It's very difficult ... I want to thank Sen. John Edwards and I wish you the best and I hope you become our president," she said.

Apparently drawing a distinction with Obama, former North Carolina senator Edwards said he was the candidate who would fight hardest to change the system.

"What kind of fighter do you need on your side when you're family is faced with this kind of crisis," Edwards said.

"Do you want somebody who has the right ideas and philosophy, or do you want somebody who has the right ideas and philosophy and the fight to bring about change because that's what this is about."
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:09 AM   #485
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Originally posted by Earnie Shavers

Internationally, it's always going to be the candidate perceived to be the furthest from a certain George W. Bush that will be the most popular.


and this is why i think Obama, for his relative lack of foreign policy experience, could be so effective. other countries will listen to him.

can you imagine him saying, "you're either with us or against us?"

he'll be able to explain why the US is acting in whatever way he chooses, and it won't engender the automatic backlash that comes with anything Bush says or does.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:23 AM   #486
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Apparently Obama is giving speeches that even political veterans are saying are the best they have ever heard, trumping even JFK/RFK/MLK

People in the audience are in tears by the time he finishes.

It's going to be extremely difficult to stop that.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:19 AM   #487
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this really is a "change" election.

and i can't think a 70 year old iraq war supporter is going to have a shred of a chance against Obama.
Sure he will. Along with the Republicans, he's going to have the support of a majority of veterans and their families, and most middle-aged to older independents. Obama is putting a ton of stock in college kids, who when the general election rolls around, will be back at school and may forget or not go to the trouble of filling out a ballot and mailing it. That's kind of risky.

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but now that every candidate from both parties is talking about how much they are all about "change" -- really, who's got the credibility?
McCain, easily. How does Obama have ANY credibility? What has done (other than endlessly talking about) to demonstrate this? McCain has political friends on both sides and has proven he can reach across the aisle. How is Obama credible about ANYTHING?
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:28 AM   #488
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McCain is losing credibility fast, especially with moderates by his kissing the ass of the extreme right...
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:30 AM   #489
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Sure he will. Along with the Republicans, he's going to have the support of a majority of veterans and their families, and most middle-aged to older independents.


dude, the base of the Republican part HATES McCain, and the reasons they hate him are why i retain some respect for him. he called Falwell and his christofascists "agents of intolerance." he doesn't hate Mexicans and he refuses to play into the "brown peril" that's been sweeping through your party. and he's eloquently and passionately denounced the torture your party seems to think is part of security. the base HATES McCain for McCain/Feingold as well.

and Obama is scoring hugely amongst independents, and he's got the youth. and McCain is hugely hurt by Iraq. yes, he's gone to great lengths to support the war, but notice he's got to even greater lengths to distance himself from the *conduct* of the war and slamming Rumsfeld this morning on the news. he'd slam Bush if he could, but then there would be political hell to pay.

i think the Republican party elites -- the "fuck you i got mine" Republicans who have money and are socially liberal and don't give a fuck about anybody else so long as their tax breaks are delivered -- will vote for McCain. but the gay/secularist/Mexican/Muslim hating, torture loving base? nope.




Quote:
McCain, easily. How does Obama have ANY credibility? What has done (other than endlessly talking about) to demonstrate this? McCain has political friends on both sides and has proven he can reach across the aisle. How is Obama credible about ANYTHING?
we're talking about being an agent of change. Obama embodies that, and the fact that the independents are flocking to him speaks volumes.

you've also contradicted yourself. its precisely because McCain has reached across the aisle that the base hates him.

i hope McCain is your nominee. i really do. but there's no way i think he'd be a better president than either Hillary or Obama.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:09 PM   #490
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Another thought about the college vote that Obama is relying on-

As a college student, I've seen the Obama hype around campus the last couple of months. But like I said, when election day rolls around, many of them will not go to the trouble of bothering to vote. I think it is very risky for Obama to have a strategy thats depends so much on youth, when you can't even depend on college kids to show up to class on time. They can go out and campaign and wear the t-shirts and pin the little Obama buttons on their backpacks, but until the results come in on election day saying that 18-24s really went out and voted overwhelmingly for Obama, I'm not going to be too worried.


ETA: I heard a poll yesterday saying that while Obama may be leading among independents voting in the Democrat primary, Clinton is still leading among registered Democrats. Isn't it bad that the guy who might end up getting the nomination isn't even the favorite among Democrats? McCain, on the other hand, leads in both groups.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:15 PM   #491
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Another thought about the college vote that Obama is relying on-

As a college student, I've seen the Obama hype around campus the last couple of months. But like I said, when election day rolls around, many of them will not go to the trouble of bothering to vote. I think it is very risky for Obama to have a strategy thats depends so much on youth, when you can't even depend on college kids to show up to class on time. They can go out and campaign and wear the t-shirts and pin the little Obama buttons on their backpacks, but until the results come in on election day saying that 18-24s really went out and voted overwhelmingly for Obama, I'm not going to be too worried.
I think you're heavily underestimating young people, especially when they're so hungry for change as they are now.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:23 PM   #492
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ETA: I heard a poll yesterday saying that while Obama may be leading among independents voting in the Democrat primary, Clinton is still leading among registered Democrats. Isn't it bad that the guy who might end up getting the nomination isn't even the favorite among Democrats? McCain, on the other hand, leads in both groups.

How do you think you get the nomination?
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:23 PM   #493
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Reminds me of 1992. I was a college student here, and it was our age group that propelled Clinton to a second place finish (really a victory, since the winner was Tsongas of Massachusetts). Nobody thought we'd vote that strongly, either, but we were all sick of Bush the Elder. I would say that sentiment is ten times stronger amongst the younger voters this year.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:47 PM   #494
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Originally posted by U2democrat
Apparently Obama is giving speeches that even political veterans are saying are the best they have ever heard, trumping even JFK/RFK/MLK

People in the audience are in tears by the time he finishes.

It's going to be extremely difficult to stop that.
Anywhere I could hear/read any of them?
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:54 PM   #495
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Anywhere I could hear/read any of them?
CSPAN has been showing speeches from all the candidates, I guess if you get lucky you can find it. You might also try YouTube.


Good luck
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