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Old 11-02-2005, 06:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Secondly, the intelligence is often tainted but it can't be proven either way.

Um, how can the intelligence often be tainted if we can't prove something either way?
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:32 PM   #17
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Please read the context of my post. Irvine proposed reasons that torture did not work - reasons, if true, would resolve this issue a long time ago.

I realize that there are sick bastards who enjoy inflicting pain. The War in Iraq ended one regime that used torture for societal intimidation (and fun when you think of Saddam's sons).

I'm sure the US has documentation of the successful use of torture on US POWs by the North Vietnamese.
Yes I read the context and that's exactly what I'm talking about.

The intelligence gained by torture, is almost impossible to prove. I'm sure the US does have documentation, but it holds as much truth as a confession given under the fear of death.
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Um, how can the intelligence often be tainted if we can't prove something either way?
Um if you can't prove it, then it's not "intelligence", therefore tainted.
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:35 PM   #19
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Um if you can't prove it, then it's not "intelligence", therefore tainted.
We, ordinary folks sitting behind our PCs will never prove it. But military experts will have a better idea of the value and accuracy of the intelligence obtained.
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:38 PM   #20
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Having read a book this summer by an interrogator at Guantanamo....

Torture does not work....according to him....
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:38 PM   #21
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


We, ordinary folks sitting behind our PCs will never prove it. But military experts will have a better idea of the value and accuracy of the intelligence obtained.


are you assuming that said "military experts" are in agreement as to the efficacy of torture?

even if it were effective, which i don't think it is, and i get this from people who do work for the CIA (... sometimes i love pulling out the DC card), does that mean that it's the right thing to do?
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:56 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Irvine511

even if it were effective, which i don't think it is, and i get this from people who do work for the CIA (... sometimes i love pulling out the DC card), does that mean that it's the right thing to do?
That's the big question? Do we want to become a nation where this is acceptable for our government to do?

I know it is probably going on already, but do we want Congress to pass a law that says, "Hey, it's okay for the CIA. It's okay because we're fighting terrorists."

Like Irvine said, do we really need to become the enemy in order to defeat the enemy?

It's stomach turning.
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:04 PM   #23
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I think we can all agree that GWB isn't Jesus.
well he claims to have "that special relationship"

and that he has "been called" for a special purpose
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
are you assuming that said "military experts" are in agreement as to the efficacy of torture?
I'm sure there is plenty of discussion at their level. But they get to work with far more information than we do.
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Having read a book this summer by an interrogator at Guantanamo....

Torture does not work....according to him....

i believe I heard him interviewed

also, I heard someone with experience with a lot of interrogation
he found that establishing rapport was most effective for gaining intelligence
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:06 PM   #26
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Originally posted by deep
well he claims to have "that special relationship"

and that he has "been called" for a special purpose
Many Christians acknowledge a relationship and calling - but that would be a topic for a different thread.
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



i believe I heard him interviewed

also, I heard someone with experience with a lot of interrogation
he found that establishing rapport was most effective for gaining intelligence
Similar to Stockholm Syndrome.
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:10 PM   #28
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I'm sure there is plenty of discussion at their level. But they get to work with far more information than we do.
all this blind trust ??

and I see it by many Admin. supporters
I do not mean to single you out.

I suppose the flip side is
all this skepticism?

i guess with more transparency the skeptics would have less to bitch about
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Old 11-02-2005, 07:11 PM   #29
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Many Christians acknowledge a relationship and calling - but that would be a topic for a different thread.
a lot of presidents have, indeed


but this guy has put it on front street
it is unseemly
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Old 11-02-2005, 08:12 PM   #30
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Would it be acceptable to threaten these types with pork products?

I wonder how many if any of these leaks are calculated, it occured with the FBI, they create the impression that they are willing to torture so that when captured any suspect will not just be silent safe in the complete knowledge that they are under no threat of harm whatsoever, that element of doubt may be a very powerful tool.
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